Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

all that is assuming what he showed in this race was his absolute max, which it wasn't.

Look, I know all of you didn't want to believe him when he said he wouldn't go to deep, and I knew back then that when he would inevitably get dropped, fans and haters alike would start screaming and shouting that he is in piss poor shape. And here we are, I knew it would happen and it is as frustrating and irritating as I thought it would be. But how about his, maybe he actually spoke the truth and the plan all along was not to go deep? I know it seems far-fetched but isn't it a possibility?

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Damn, so harsh. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and to voice it. If you don't like ignore it. It's as simple as that.

what would you say if I started posting that Froome should retire?
It is just disgusting and disrespectful to say he "should" retire. It should be the man's own decision and should not be influenced by what some irrelevant fans on the internet say.

I rarely post anything about Froome, so that was a kind of a silly post. Anyway, say whatever the hell you want about Froome. I have already stated here that my favorite rider is Contador. However, that doesn't mean that I'm blind towards him.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion and should have the freedom of voicing it, whether you like it or not. And it's Contador's decision to retire. Only his. That doesn't mean that people can't have an opinion and express it.

Jeez

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Precisely my point: he has a lot of room to improve, despite being competitive in this year's Dauphine. Alberto wasn't and it's pretty doubtful that he will hugely improve his form.

And since his goal is to win the Tour, he should have performed better, despite all the "just training ride" shenanigans.

No, you don't get the point. They were equally uncomfortable at that pace but Froome came here to win while Contador came to train. That is why Froome kept pushing on while Contador dropped when he looked at his power meter and saw he was on the limit he and his coaches had agreed on before the race.

Or maybe it's you that don't get the point. Stop being defensive when your boy is being criticized.

If his "numbers" and his "training" would be going well, he wouldn't ever felt the need of saying time and time again that "I'm taking a different approach. This will be only for training purposes.", when in the past few years spent his life saying "best form of my life, best numbers of my life.". Such a radical change. I'm not naive and I dont believe for a second that a guy like him would say such a thing truthfully, especially considering all the crap that he says that turn out to be false.

So stop acting so defensively. If you don't like people criticizing him and can't cope with it, especially when he fails miserably, then ignore.

You know, maybe you should pay more attention to what he says. Because he said it himself, "I keep repeating it because it's hard for me, I'm trying to prepare myself for it" and probably, he wanted to prepare the crazy fans and haters as well. Of course, he should have known no one would believe him

 

[perico]

Re: Re:

Precisely my point: he has a lot of room to improve, despite being competitive in this year's Dauphine. Alberto wasn't and it's pretty doubtful that he will hugely improve his form.

And since his goal is to win the Tour, he should have performed better, despite all the "just training ride" shenanigans.

No, you don't get the point. They were equally uncomfortable at that pace but Froome came here to win while Contador came to train. That is why Froome kept pushing on while Contador dropped when he looked at his power meter and saw he was on the limit he and his coaches had agreed on before the race.

Or maybe it's you that don't get the point. Stop being defensive when your boy is being criticized.

If his "numbers" and his "training" would be going well, he wouldn't ever felt the need of saying time and time again that "I'm taking a different approach. This will be only for training purposes.", when in the past few years spent his life saying "best form of my life, best numbers of my life.". Such a radical change. I'm not naive and I dont believe for a second that a guy like him would say such a thing truthfully, especially considering all the crap that he says that turn out to be false.

So stop acting so defensively. If you don't like people criticizing him and can't cope with it, especially when he fails miserably, then ignore.

There are numerous examples of riders turning it off in the Dauphine. It's not the first time Alberto has half@ssed it around this race. Nibbles showed up for a stage, was written off, and laughed as Richie failed miserably trying to fill Froome's shoes while winning the Tour.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I like this approach to take it easy in Dauphine. Yea we might a 2013 Contador but we also might get a decent Contador and this TdF route is kind of odd.

I'll be honest though, already hyped for 2018 Giro.

My thoughts exactly, for this route it's hard to point out a favorite and anything could happen, we could get a freak winner.
And of course next year's Giro is the race we are all looking forward to

 

[Andro]

Contador has become the king of excuses. It's quite clear that he's just not good enough to keep up with the top guys anymore.

Realistically, he has at most 50 % chance of making the top 5 at the Tour

 

[perico]

In fact, I remember a certain 34 year old Aussie who was totally written off as having any shot before the 2011 Tour.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Feel bad for the old man, maybe he is finished, although I have my doubts, but he dosen't deserve his fans turning on him like this. Surely the only parameter by which he should continue is whether he is still enjoying racing his bike, not for the ratification of people on an internet forum who have been spoiled for years by his great style and vast amount of victories. The only ones tarnishing his legacy are those who are measuring the efforts of a 34 year old man in relation to his former unattainable standard.

I don't think there's many "turning" on him. Someone can be disappointed and talk about a poor performance without turning on AC. Come July,, I'll still be rooting for him. No one races like him...I couldn't root for anyone else while he's still an active rider.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Feel bad for the old man, maybe he is finished, although I have my doubts, but he dosen't deserve his fans turning on him like this. Surely the only parameter by which he should continue is whether he is still enjoying racing his bike, not for the ratification of people on an internet forum who have been spoiled for years by his great style and vast amount of victories. The only ones tarnishing his legacy are those who are measuring the efforts of a 34 year old man in relation to his former unattainable standard.

Exactly. It makes me unreasonably angry to see people saying he should retire. I've posted it as well on here in an emotional outbreak and I still feel guilty. Only he gets to decide on that and if it is this year, so be it, if it's in 2020, that's fine as well.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Damn, so harsh. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and to voice it. If you don't like ignore it. It's as simple as that.

what would you say if I started posting that Froome should retire?
It is just disgusting and disrespectful to say he "should" retire. It should be the man's own decision and should not be influenced by what some irrelevant fans on the internet say.

here you go again... since when you hold back from using disgusting and disrespectful statements about AC opposition? Like to bash other riders? great, then put up with others criticising your riders as well. Simple as that.

As to AC. he won't be able to improve his conditions to the bigger extent than Porte, Froome, Bardet or anyone else come the Tour, so the podium will be a great accomplishment. to win, he'll need a real miracle, something like a massive echelone stage where all the teams of big contenders should be distanced by quite a big margin.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Contador has become the king of excuses. It's quite clear that he's just not good enough to keep up with the top guys anymore.

Realistically, he has at most 50 % chance of making the top 5 at the Tour

You haven't really paid attention to this and last year's spring races then.

 

[Jspear]

As far as the whole "not digging too deep" thing is concerned - I do believe him. I believe he rode within himself. Even still, I'm a little disappointed. How much more ground would he have made up going into the red? We will never know, but I think it's safe to say he wouldn't have won the Dauphine. Even yesterday he said that he was trying to stay with Porte, but couldn't. All that said, he still has a lot of work to do before July. July comes around fast.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Right, I'm out for a while. I'll let you guys cool down for a bit and maybe you can see things with greater clarity later and we can have some sensible discussions. What I saw: a Contador who is clearly not yet at his best, but who also didn't really bother trying, just as he said. He is reasonably fit and has shown a good base level this season, so we haven't got any reason panic. Maybe he won't strong at the Tour, maybe he will be. All of this is so premature.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

As far as the whole "not digging too deep" thing is concerned - I do believe him. I believe he rode within himself. Even still, I'm a little disappointed. How much more ground would he have made up going into the red? We will never know, but I think it's safe to say he wouldn't have won the Dauphine. Even yesterday he said that he was trying to stay with Porte, but couldn't. All that said, he still has a lot of work to do before July. July comes around fast.

Agreed. On Col de Colombiere, it also looked as though he just wanted to find his own rhythm, when he rode away from Porte and Froome. Same with Solaison, after he realised that he would have to go too deep to stay with the group. In any case, as you say, he still has a lot to improve, as he is definitely a level or two below his early spring shape.

 

[lenric]

Re:

In fact, I remember a certain 34 year old Aussie who was totally written off as having any shot before the 2011 Tour.

Good recall. That old aussie won Tirreno Adriatico. Tour de Romandie and was second at Dauphine.

Right, I'm out for a while. I'll let you guys cool down for a bit and maybe you can see things with greater clarity later and we can have some sensible discussions. What I saw: a Contador who is clearly not yet at his best, but who also didn't really bother trying, just as he said. He is reasonably fit and has shown a good base level this season, so we haven't got any reason panic. Maybe he won't strong at the Tour, maybe he will be. All of this is so premature.

Good call, take the chance and cool down. You look like you need it.

 

[perico]

"I wanted to use the test as training for the Tour and met planned, something that leaves you satisfied. "More important than the position is that I finished fresh. Last year he finished very tired, now I will take a few days off and start working with intensity. The plan at the moment is going perfect , " he said.

http://ciclismo.as.com/ciclismo/2017/06/11/mas_ciclismo/1497190675_334644.amp.html

 

[DFA123]

He really should just be quiet. If he is deliberately off-form here, trying to reach a super peak in the Tour, then what is the benefit to telling everyone? Surely better to get written off and then surprise everyone at the Tour with the new peak form - maybe even go under the radar for the first couple of weeks or so because everyone thinks he's finished.

I just don't see any benefit to giving a running commentary to everyone on how his training and form is going - other than for his own ego.

 

[SeriousSam]

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

As far as the whole "not digging too deep" thing is concerned - I do believe him. I believe he rode within himself. Even still, I'm a little disappointed. How much more ground would he have made up going into the red? We will never know, but I think it's safe to say he wouldn't have won the Dauphine. Even yesterday he said that he was trying to stay with Porte, but couldn't. All that said, he still has a lot of work to do before July. July comes around fast.

I'm a bit disappointed with his performance today. Looks like, he is way far back from some of the riders. Even got dropped by no name rider. Either he has a lot of work to do to catch up or he needs a miracle. He might be up there comes TDF, but it might not be enough to win it. Time will tell.

 

[perico]

Re:

One has 7 (or 9) GT victories- Vs- Guy who may have podiumed once had he not had a flat tire.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

Precisely my point: he has a lot of room to improve, despite being competitive in this year's Dauphine. Alberto wasn't and it's pretty doubtful that he will hugely improve his form.

And since his goal is to win the Tour, he should have performed better, despite all the "just training ride" shenanigans.

No, you don't get the point. They were equally uncomfortable at that pace but Froome came here to win while Contador came to train. That is why Froome kept pushing on while Contador dropped when he looked at his power meter and saw he was on the limit he and his coaches had agreed on before the race.

Or maybe it's you that don't get the point. Stop being defensive when your boy is being criticized.

If his "numbers" and his "training" would be going well, he wouldn't ever felt the need of saying time and time again that "I'm taking a different approach. This will be only for training purposes.", when in the past few years spent his life saying "best form of my life, best numbers of my life.". Such a radical change. I'm not naive and I dont believe for a second that a guy like him would say such a thing truthfully, especially considering all the crap that he says that turn out to be false.

So stop acting so defensively. If you don't like people criticizing him and can't cope with it, especially when he fails miserably, then ignore.

There are numerous examples of riders turning it off in the Dauphine. It's not the first time Alberto has half@ssed it around this race. Nibbles showed up for a stage, was written off, and laughed as Richie failed miserably trying to fill Froome's shoes while winning the Tour.

yeah, Nibali is good example of someone comes with so-so shape @Dauphine and won the tour. But it's tough to say since Froome and Contador crashed that year. (no disrespect to Nibali). Not that I'm taking anything from Nibali's win. He won beating whoever on the race. So we'll never know, if going sucks at Dauphine will translate to win TDF. So far as I recall, Contador never going too far back in form @Dauphine to be competitive @the Tour. I might be wrong. But this time around, his preparation is a bit worrysome to the fans. I wonder, maybe he should not race to many in his early season, if he wants to arrive frest at the Tour. Froome, Quintana, Porte for example. Now, 3 weeks to the Tour, he got a lot of work to do since he seems to be below his early season form and way off the other contenders. Remind me of his form of 2013 (but not in the same circumstances).

 

[LanLions]

Re:

He really should just be quiet. If he is deliberately off-form here, trying to reach a super peak in the Tour, then what is the benefit to telling everyone? Surely better to get written off and then surprise everyone at the Tour with the new peak form - maybe even go under the radar for the first couple of weeks or so because everyone thinks he's finished.

I just don't see any benefit to giving a running commentary to everyone on how his training and form is going - other than for his own ego.

He needs to keep his teammates confidence in him, if he writes himself off to the press then his teammates will no longer see him as a legitimate tour contender (especially after his performance in the Dauphine). If they don't see him as a legitimate tour contender then he's less likely to get the support he needs on the flats before the mountains, he'll be in a similar situation to what he had at Tinkoff.

 

[portugal11]

So what will he do in the next 3 weeks?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He really should just be quiet. If he is deliberately off-form here, trying to reach a super peak in the Tour, then what is the benefit to telling everyone? Surely better to get written off and then surprise everyone at the Tour with the new peak form - maybe even go under the radar for the first couple of weeks or so because everyone thinks he's finished.

I just don't see any benefit to giving a running commentary to everyone on how his training and form is going - other than for his own ego.

He needs to keep his teammates confidence in him, if he writes himself off to the press then his teammates will no longer see him as a legitimate tour contender (especially after his performance in the Dauphine). If they don't see him as a legitimate tour contender then he's less likely to get the support he needs on the flats before the mountains, he'll be in a similar situation to what he had at Tinkoff.

That's a fair point, but surely he could just disclose his training plan privately to his team-mates and tell them not to expect much from him until the Tour. I see why it's important about keeping confidence high, but not sure why that has to be done publically through the media.

Also, I'm not sure the problems at Tinkoff started because of below par performances in the one week stage races, it was more because of successive failures in the Tour. And because he'd already crashed and was clearly just holding Kreuziger and Majka back for no good reason last year.

 

[LanLions]

Re: Re:

He really should just be quiet. If he is deliberately off-form here, trying to reach a super peak in the Tour, then what is the benefit to telling everyone? Surely better to get written off and then surprise everyone at the Tour with the new peak form - maybe even go under the radar for the first couple of weeks or so because everyone thinks he's finished.

I just don't see any benefit to giving a running commentary to everyone on how his training and form is going - other than for his own ego.

He needs to keep his teammates confidence in him, if he writes himself off to the press then his teammates will no longer see him as a legitimate tour contender (especially after his performance in the Dauphine). If they don't see him as a legitimate tour contender then he's less likely to get the support he needs on the flats before the mountains, he'll be in a similar situation to what he had at Tinkoff.

That's a fair point, but surely he could just disclose his training plan privately to his team-mates and tell them not to expect much from him until the Tour. I see why it's important about keeping confidence high, but not sure why that has to be done publically through the media.

Also, I'm not sure the problems at Tinkoff started because of below par performances in the one week stage races, it was more because of successive failures in the Tour. And because he'd already crashed and was clearly just holding Kreuziger and Majka back for no good reason last year.

Yeh you're right, it would probably would make more sense to ensure his team mates privately. But you've also got to look at it purely from an ego perspective, it would probably kill Contador inside going into tour and not being regarded by the press and public as a favourite he probably just wants to remind everyone that he will be there in July for his own pride, even if it's tactically not the best idea.

Also, you're right about his Tinkoff problems not being down to his performances in week long stage races, I was just talking purely about the situation within the teams, rather than the causation of said situations, and how he'd avoid in any way possible losing the confidence and support of his team as he seemed to at Tinkoff.