Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

I think he has ridden really well the last stages. I don't think he can perform any better, GC-wise. But in order to win a stage, he needs to change armery. He's not going to win a mountain stage by following the other GC-guys. Froome, Nibali, Lopez will all be better in the final week.

Maybe just forget about a minor GC-place and trying to win a stage by joining a break?

Of course he can still win a stage and go for the podium. He just needs a good day and the other guys to look at its other.

You really think he will reach the podium and win a stage by following the other GC-guys?

The podium is very possible.

 

[yaco]

At least when Contador attacked he put some GC riders out of the game - He isn't always receiving enough reward for his efforts.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

I think he has ridden really well the last stages. I don't think he can perform any better, GC-wise. But in order to win a stage, he needs to change armery. He's not going to win a mountain stage by following the other GC-guys. Froome, Nibali, Lopez will all be better in the final week.

Maybe just forget about a minor GC-place and trying to win a stage by joining a break?

Of course he can still win a stage and go for the podium. He just needs a good day and the other guys to look at its other.

You really think he will reach the podium and win a stage by following the other GC-guys?

The podium is very possible.

Let's hope so. That would be a great way to end his career.

 

[Forever The Best]

Please no.
9-0-0 > 9-1-0 or 9-0-1

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Slightly disappointing finish for Contador today; it looked like with 3km to go he had a great chance to get that long awaited stage win. But I think he picked the wrong wheel in following Froome - who seemed to be playing with him a bit, before dropping him easily. Perhaps Contador just didn't have the legs to follow Nibali though, but it's a shame he didn't try something more when the road kicked up.

Yes with 3km to go when everyone was still together he was in with a chance but in those 3km it became clear he didn't have the legs. If he had sat on Nibali's wheel he might have lost a few seconds less - no way he would have won..he didn't try something more because he couldn't, that was obvious. Or do you also think Zakarin should have tried more, after all he looked good with 3km to go?

Zakarin is just five seconds off the podium positions, and having come from the Giro, should come into stronger form in the last week, so I think the situation is very different than with Contador. He'll have good chances again later in the race, I'm not sure Contador will get many more opportunities as good as today to win a stage, so it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Guys, he's 1:22 off the podium with a long TT to go. I'd say the podium is well within reach.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Please no.
9-0-0 > 9-1-0 or 9-0-1

I tend to agree.

And of course he can win a stage by following others, he needs good legs though and a lot of luck, if others look at each other and he sneaks away, he can win. So it isn't very likely, but not impossible. At this point I don't see how he can win a stage going mano a mano with the other GC guys.
Needs to be one of the final stages though as I don't see Froome giving him even two seconds any earlier, and the issue is that the final stages are the TT, Machucos, murito, hilly stage, Angliru and flat stage. Froome will certainly want to win Angliru himself if he can so he won't do trackstands with whoever is 2nd and watch Alberto ride away. Machucos is likely to go to a break, I think.

 

[Climber123]

Guys, he's 1:22 off the podium with a long TT to go. I'd say the podium is well within reach.

For sure, the TT will be the key of his podium ambitions. I also think he will succeed at a mini-ambush somewhere...

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Moves into top-10, I think

Not great but from the way he looked, I expected him to drop way earlier, so I'm quite happy. He still was one of the few to try an attack, chapeau. Onwards and upwards.

Pretty much just sat on Nibali's wheel didnt he?

No...

Looked like he went onto Nibali's wheel and then really didn't have the legs to contribute much to the break (would have been suicide anyways), but yeah, I guess thats an attack.

You must have missed him attacking with Nibali on his wheel a few minutes before Nibali's attack, I guess.

You are both right. Berto iniated the first attack in lower slopes and Nibs followed him. But Nibs went past to pull when they had a slight gap and Berto couldn't really contribute. They had a gap for about a minute or so and Nibs was pulling around 50 sec of that time.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

Which raises two questions. If he was suffering that much for the entire last 40km, then is it realistic to be going for the GC in the faint hope of grinding to 3rd place? Or would it be better to save energy and go all out for that elusive stage win? I fear with his current strategy he will end up with nothing from the race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

Which raises two questions. If he was suffering that much for the entire last 40km, then is it realistic to be going for the GC in the faint hope of grinding to 3rd place? Or would it be better to save energy and go all out for that elusive stage win? I fear with his current strategy he will end up with nothing from the race.

Good question, that's what we've discussed at length in this thread the last few days.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

Which raises two questions. If he was suffering that much for the entire last 40km, then is it realistic to be going for the GC in the faint hope of grinding to 3rd place? Or would it be better to save energy and go all out for that elusive stage win? I fear with his current strategy he will end up with nothing from the race.

Using either strategy there is the risk of coming up empty. I think it's more important to him to compete with the best in the mountains and take what comes from that. It's already been shown that he's been given very little latitude off the front.

Edit: A good showing overall would be alright with me if he misses on both podium and a stage win. So far we have that from him. This will be the last time we will see him racing so as long as he's leaving it all out there I'm content.

 

[Climber123]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

Which raises two questions. If he was suffering that much for the entire last 40km, then is it realistic to be going for the GC in the faint hope of grinding to 3rd place? Or would it be better to save energy and go all out for that elusive stage win? I fear with his current strategy he will end up with nothing from the race.

Not sure a perceived painface is anything to go on. Based on the results he is on track for a podium.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

Which raises two questions. If he was suffering that much for the entire last 40km, then is it realistic to be going for the GC in the faint hope of grinding to 3rd place? Or would it be better to save energy and go all out for that elusive stage win? I fear with his current strategy he will end up with nothing from the race.

Good question, that's what we've discussed at length in this thread the last few days.

Yes, and before today it was all just speculation as we were yet to have a proper mountain stage. Now we have had one, and he seems to be intent on following this neither here nor there strategy. Losing enough time to make the GC podium a long shot, but not losing enough time to be allowed freedom for a stage win. Something of a shame, because his shape isn't so bad - if he could get in the right break he could certainly win on Pandera for example. But Froome won't let him go at only four minutes down.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

You are both right. Berto iniated the first attack in lower slopes and Nibs followed him. But Nibs went past to pull when they had a slight gap and Berto couldn't really contribute. They had a gap for about a minute or so and Nibs was pulling around 50 sec of that time.

This is the video. Alberto attacks, Nibali follows, but they are quickly caught again. Nibali rides up beside Alberto near the end but never takes over.
https://youtu.be/sfA7revwraE

Then later Nibali attacks again, this time Alberto follows, and he doesn't really contribute.

They were 2 different attacks.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

Which raises two questions. If he was suffering that much for the entire last 40km, then is it realistic to be going for the GC in the faint hope of grinding to 3rd place? Or would it be better to save energy and go all out for that elusive stage win? I fear with his current strategy he will end up with nothing from the race.

Using either strategy there is the risk of coming up empty. I think it's more important to him to compete with the best in the mountains and take what comes from that. It's already been shown that he's been given very little latitude off the front.

Sure, but he's never going to be given latitude at four minutes down. If he lost twenty minutes then he'd certainly be allowed clear I think. Just like Bardet is given freedom at the moment. If he wants to use his last GT to test where he is against the best, then that's of course his decision. Presumably he's hanging his hat on one big ambush attack succeeding at some point; but it seems a pretty remote possibility. At least compared with a stage win if he went all in for that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Yes, and before today it was all just speculation as we were yet to have a proper mountain stage. Now we have had one, and he seems to be intent on following this neither here nor there strategy. Losing enough time to make the GC podium a long shot, but not losing enough time to be allowed freedom for a stage win. Something of a shame, because his shape isn't so bad - if he could get in the right break he could certainly win on Pandera for example. But Froome won't let him go at only four minutes down.

I suppose Alberto doesn't want a win "gifted" to him in a break, he wants to earn it the hard way as he is a proud man and a big champion.
Also, it's obvious he wants to prove to himself and to us that he can still be a GC contender. He doesn't want to finish his career as a stage hunter like Atapuma and Pauwels.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

You are both right. Berto iniated the first attack in lower slopes and Nibs followed him. But Nibs went past to pull when they had a slight gap and Berto couldn't really contribute. They had a gap for about a minute or so and Nibs was pulling around 50 sec of that time.

This is the video. Alberto attacks, Nibali follows, but they are quickly caught again. Nibali rides up beside Alberto near the end but never takes over.
https://youtu.be/sfA7revwraE

Then later Nibali attacks again, this time Alberto follows, and he doesn't really contribute.

They were 2 different attacks.

Ah then I actually missed part of the race with crack of connection. I saw Berto attack and lost connection. Next time I saw them up on the road with some gap and thought it was due the same attack. And Berto wasn't indeed contributing that time.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

Which raises two questions. If he was suffering that much for the entire last 40km, then is it realistic to be going for the GC in the faint hope of grinding to 3rd place? Or would it be better to save energy and go all out for that elusive stage win? I fear with his current strategy he will end up with nothing from the race.

Not sure a perceived painface is anything to go on. Based on the results he is on track for a podium.

The man was white faced in agony, looked like a death mask at times. I thought for sure he was going to blow up. Pure Class that one! Yes he can still podium!

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

it was slightly disappointing to not see him at least try something, rather than just following Froome and ultimately limiting his losses.

It suggests his priority is still firmly with a high GC placing, rather than a stage win.

It suggests he was at the limit and couldn't do any better, as highlighted by his sufferface throughout the last 40km.

Which raises two questions. If he was suffering that much for the entire last 40km, then is it realistic to be going for the GC in the faint hope of grinding to 3rd place? Or would it be better to save energy and go all out for that elusive stage win? I fear with his current strategy he will end up with nothing from the race.

Using either strategy there is the risk of coming up empty. I think it's more important to him to compete with the best in the mountains and take what comes from that. It's already been shown that he's been given very little latitude off the front.

Edit: A good showing overall would be alright with me if he misses on both podium and a stage win. So far we have that from him. This will be the last time we will see him racing so as long as he's leaving it all out there I'm content.

This. He will leave every last ounce of energy, determination, class and guts on the road. That is all one can ask of an athlete. No matter where he finishes he is a Champion!

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Yes, and before today it was all just speculation as we were yet to have a proper mountain stage. Now we have had one, and he seems to be intent on following this neither here nor there strategy. Losing enough time to make the GC podium a long shot, but not losing enough time to be allowed freedom for a stage win. Something of a shame, because his shape isn't so bad - if he could get in the right break he could certainly win on Pandera for example. But Froome won't let him go at only four minutes down.

I suppose Alberto doesn't want a win "gifted" to him in a break, he wants to earn it the hard way as he is a proud man and a big champion.
Also, it's obvious he wants to prove to himself and to us that he can still be a GC contender. He doesn't want to finish his career as a stage hunter like Atapuma and Pauwels.

Sure, and that's commendable in many ways. But, at the same time, it would be a shame if he finished his last race - and indeed his last season - with no win of any kind. Also I don't think there's any real shame in a rider coming off the Tour de France and stage hunting in the Vuelta; like Bardet for example, he's no less of a GC rider just because he's stage hunting here.

 

[Red Rick]

Today was the kind of performance where you're secretly hoping for better but you can't really be that disappointed about that.

 

[GraftPunk]

Re:

Today was the kind of performance where you're secretly hoping for better but you can't really be that disappointed about that.

Indeed!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Sure, and that's commendable in many ways. But, at the same time, it would be a shame if he finished his last race - and indeed his last season - with no win of any kind.

And that's why he'll try everything in his might to win a stage - through beating the very best

Also I don't think there's any real shame in a rider coming off the Tour de France and stage hunting in the Vuelta; like Bardet for example, he's no less of a GC rider just because he's stage hunting here.

Bardet has no choice, he is clearly not climbing well enough to be up there with the best, while Berto is.