Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Carols]

Only the Tour I might add. Vuelta doesn't have all that much prestige compared to the other big races. Giro is building up prestige again in recent years.

Well the Giro and Vuelta are worth 170 points each, Tour is 200 points and there is no classic above 100.

What is 1st prize in money PR/RVV vs. Giro/Vuelta?

It's like comparing the 5Million$ Breeder's Cup Classic to the 1Mil$ Sprint. Different horses for different courses, but one is worth more than the other.

 

[El Pistolero]

This type of comparison is crap though because we have 3 gts but so many classics.

To prove that anyone can win a classic yall had to go and dig up what is at best the 6th biggest classic (and 8th biggest one day race).

And 1 that at the end of the day is not a monument.

By the same token I can dig up a stage race thats not a gt but one of the top ones (arguably the 4th biggest one)

And find that a new rider has won the title every year, for, not 15 but 25 years

1988 Helmut Wechselberger (AUT) Malvor-Bottecchia-Sidi
1989 Beat Breu (SUI) Domex-Weinmann
1990 Sean Kelly (IRL) PDM-Concorde
1991 Luc Roosen (BEL) Tulip Computers
1992 Giorgio Furlan (ITA) Ceramiche Ariostea
1993 Marco Saligari (ITA) Ceramiche Ariostea
1994 Pascal Richard (SUI) GB-MG Maglificio
1995 Pavel Tonkov (RUS) Lampre-Ceramiche Panaria
1996 Peter Luttenberger (AUT) Carrera Jeans-Tassoni
1997 Christophe Agnolutto (FRA) Casino
1998 Stefano Garzelli (ITA) Mercatone Uno-Bianchi
1999 Francesco Casagrande (ITA) Vini Caldirola
2000 Oscar Camenzind (SUI) Lampre-Daikin
2001 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal
2002 Alex Zülle (SUI) Team Coast
2003 Alexandre Vinokourov (KAZ) Team Telekom
2004 Jan Ullrich (GER) T-Mobile Team
2005 Aitor González (ESP) Euskaltel-Euskadi
2006 Koldo Gil (ESP) Saunier Duval-Prodir
2007 Vladimir Karpets (RUS) Caisse d'Epargne
2008 Roman Kreuziger (CZE) Liquigas
2009 Fabian Cancellara (SUI) Team Saxo Bank
2010 Fränk Schleck (LUX) Team Saxo Bank
2011 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack
2012 Rui Costa (POR) Movistar Team
[

AGR every year has the same field, Tour de Suisse's field changes every year and it's a lot weaker as well. I don't think a Tour de Suisse victory nowadays is as good as AGR. The difference in level of the field is way too big for that. As far as stage races go, I rate P-N, T-A and the Dauphiné higher than the Tour de Suisse. Also the parcours of the Tour de Suisse obviously changes every year as well, especially the edition where Cancellara won in 2009(no real mountains). So obviously that will lead to different winners. AGR has a more stable course of course(despite the changes this year).

AGR might not be a Monument, but everyone that watches cycling knows that it has practically the same field as LBL. The thumb of rule for a Monument is that it needs to be at least 50 years old.

 

[Netserk]

This type of comparison is crap though because we have 3 gts but so many classics.

To prove that anyone can win a classic yall had to go and dig up what is at best the 6th biggest classic (and 8th biggest one day race).

And 1 that at the end of the day is not a monument.

By the same token I can dig up a stage race thats not a gt but one of the top ones (arguably the 4th biggest one)

And find that a new rider has won the title every year, for, not 15 but 25 years

1988 Helmut Wechselberger (AUT) Malvor-Bottecchia-Sidi
1989 Beat Breu (SUI) Domex-Weinmann
1990 Sean Kelly (IRL) PDM-Concorde
1991 Luc Roosen (BEL) Tulip Computers
1992 Giorgio Furlan (ITA) Ceramiche Ariostea
1993 Marco Saligari (ITA) Ceramiche Ariostea
1994 Pascal Richard (SUI) GB-MG Maglificio
1995 Pavel Tonkov (RUS) Lampre-Ceramiche Panaria
1996 Peter Luttenberger (AUT) Carrera Jeans-Tassoni
1997 Christophe Agnolutto (FRA) Casino
1998 Stefano Garzelli (ITA) Mercatone Uno-Bianchi
1999 Francesco Casagrande (ITA) Vini Caldirola
2000 Oscar Camenzind (SUI) Lampre-Daikin
2001 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal
2002 Alex Zülle (SUI) Team Coast
2003 Alexandre Vinokourov (KAZ) Team Telekom
2004 Jan Ullrich (GER) T-Mobile Team
2005 Aitor González (ESP) Euskaltel-Euskadi
2006 Koldo Gil (ESP) Saunier Duval-Prodir
2007 Vladimir Karpets (RUS) Caisse d'Epargne
2008 Roman Kreuziger (CZE) Liquigas
2009 Fabian Cancellara (SUI) Team Saxo Bank
2010 Fränk Schleck (LUX) Team Saxo Bank
2011 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack
2012 Rui Costa (POR) Movistar Team
[

Ullrich won in 2006.

 

[The Hitch]

"He can win whatever he wants", that's the view.

He wins when e wants!
He wins when e wants!
Al-ber-to Con-tah-dor!
He wins when e wants!!!!

 

[Pentacycle]

AGR every year has the same field, Tour de Suisse's field changes every year and it's a lot weaker as well. I don't think a Tour de Suisse victory nowadays is as good as AGR. The level in field is way too big for that. As far as stage races go, I rate P-N, T-A and the Dauphiné higher than the Tour de Suisse.

AGR might not be a Monument, but everyone that watches cycling knows that it has practically the same field as LBL. The thumb of rule for a Monument is that it needs to be at least 50 years old.

By that rule AGR could be a Monument in 5 years. It already has a great prestige, it's a target for the greatest rouleurs, hilly riders, and climbers who consider themselves a possible winner. But I think the problem of adding AGR as the sixth Monument is not the race itself that's added, but the problems people would have when there's suddenly 6 Monuments.(conservatism) People won't accept it, probably because of the silly name and that it's still newer than the other five.

 

[El Pistolero]

By that rule AGR could be a Monument in 5 years. It already has a great prestige, it's a target for the greatest rouleurs, hilly riders, and climbers who consider themselves a possible winner. But I think the problem of adding AGR as the sixth Monument is not the race itself that's added, but the problems people would have when there's suddenly 6 Monuments.(conservatism)

Meh, Paris-Tours was considered the 6th "Monument" in the past. They didn't actually call any of these races a Monument, but it was one of the top one day races for a long time. Just like Flèche Wallonne used to be more prestigous than LBL for a very long time...

 

[LaFlorecita]

"He can win whatever he wants", that's the view.

And that's not my view, don't put words into my mouth please.

 

[Pentacycle]

Meh, Paris-Tours was considered the 6th "Monument" in the past. They didn't actually call any of these races a Monument, but it was one of the top one day races for a long time. Just like Flèche Wallonne used to be more prestigous than LBL for a very long time...

Paris-Tours was indeed very prestigious, but didn't all top riders race the same calendar together? Now the busy calendar causes half of the riders to already call it a season at the Worlds or earlier. This makes fall classics less prestigious, the fact that there's much less quality of riders left. Riders who normally never perform well in spring classics(Santambrogio, Zaugg) can suddenly contend for Il Lombardia. Things have changed in terms of season planning. At least every spring classic has most top riders in their best shape, giving them the most prestige nowadays.

 

[El Pistolero]

Paris-Tours was indeed very prestigious, but didn't all top riders race the same calendar together? Now the busy calendar causes half of the riders to already call it a season at the Worlds or earlier. This makes fall classics less prestigious, the fact that there's much less quality of riders left. Riders who normally never perform well in spring classics(Santambrogio, Zaugg) can suddenly contend for Il Lombardia. Things have changed in terms of season planning. At least every spring classic has most top riders in their best shape, giving them the most prestige nowadays.

Lombardia takes place a week after the Worlds, so all top riders should be there. 2011 was a bit weak, but that was a one off. Paris-Tours isn't WT anymore, only reason why its prestige dropped.

It's not like Iglinsky is a much better name to be honest.

 

[Pentacycle]

Lombardia takes place a week after the Worlds, so all top riders should be there. 2011 was a bit weak, but that was a one off. Paris-Tours isn't WT anymore, only reason why its prestige dropped.

Lombardia used to be 3 weeks after the Worlds, it's only recently been moved.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I like that no matter what race people are pulling out of their pockets Vino is in the list of previous winners

 

[Pentacycle]

I like that no matter what race people are pulling out of their pockets Vino is in the list of previous winners

We were just discussing Il Lombardia and Paris-Tours here.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

We were just discussing Il Lombardia and Paris-Tours here.

oh, well nvm me then. I am just gonna sit here in my corner and watch you guys argue while I look at Vinos palamares for my self. Shall we see, yes a couple of Paris Nices here, oh yea some classics and monuments there, and what is that in the bakc over there? Just behind his gc victory in Romandie? oh yea! His VUelta

 

[Netserk]

Only once in the last 25 years has L-B-L been won by the previous winner.

Only twice for Flanders

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Only once in the last 25 years has L-B-L been won by the previous winner.

Only twice for Flanders

Yup, to do that in LBL you need to be Gods choosen one or something similar, I wonder who that was?

 

[Miburo]

Yup, to do that in LBL you need to be Gods choosen one or something similar, I wonder who that was?

Bartoli

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Bartoli

He did not say previous year

 

[Carols]

Can we kindly get back to Alberto on the Alberto Contador thread?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Bartoli

Bettini, Valverde, Vino and Bartoli are all awesome

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Can we kindly get back to Alberto on the Alberto Contador thread?

He is no fun... Let us talk classic season instead lol

sorry

 

[The Hitch]

Only once in the last 25 years has L-B-L been won by the previous winner.

Only twice for Flanders

So?

Once in nearly 40 for the giro .

 

[serfla]

And that's not my view, don't put words into my mouth please.

He's ridden classics and he could win one if he made it his goal - but he doesn't, because his goal is TDF

Very different from how Ive interpreted it.
I apologize.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Very different from how Ive interpreted it.
I apologize.

note: "could"

 

[Netserk]

He did not say previous year

yes he did

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

yes he did

hm, sorry my mistake then