Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

It would eat at me too. Contador shouldnt have attacked Schleck's chaingate issue. Sure its over and let it go but standing on that top step on the final day in Paris, riding that final day in yellow on the Champs Elysses, hearin your anthem is a big part of being champ. Im sure that hit him financially as well. The most beautiful win of his career, had big elements of winning(mentioned above) left out. Did they just deliver his Yellow jersey, prize money and the trophy to him at his house? No team around, no fans, the memories of the battles are not as fresh as the final day in Paris ceremonies where the atmosphere is different than A.Schlecks living room.

Chaingate thumbsuckers unite! You folks need group therapy. Get over it. Andy attacked, muffed up his shifting, his opponents had already responded. Often quoted is Ryder Hesjadel: "You draw your sword and drop it, you die."

 

[Jspear]

Steady there fella, take the pain. It may come round again in your man's favour next year. It's hard for you I know and Tank but you just have to accept a three quarters fit Contador out thought out climbed and out TT'd a fully fit Froome in the Vuelta. Put simply, it was a master class from a class Master. Froome can only dream of such bike alchemy.

Steady there fella.
Froome was not at all in top form for the Vuelta. All you have to do is go look at stage 2 of the Dauphine and then go watch a stage from the Vuelta. You will see a very noticeable difference in his level of form.

 

[pigoonse]

Steady there fella.
Froome was not at all in top form for the Vuelta. All you have to do is go look at stage 2 of the Dauphine and then go watch a stage from the Vuelta. You will see a very noticeable difference in his level of form.

If this is a fact, it seriously discredits the popular hype that the competition at La Vuelta this year was so great.

 

[contador977]

Chaingate thumbsuckers unite! You folks need group therapy. Get over it. Andy attacked, muffed up his shifting, his opponents had already responded. Often quoted is Ryder Hesjadel: "You draw your sword and drop it, you die."

Isnt thier un-written rules regarding the yellow jersey? Does that mean Ullrich should have attacked Armstrong after Armstrong drew his sword on Luz Ardiden? Or when Ullrich went into that deep ditch in the 2001 Tour and Armstrong waited, then attacked him later. I like these gestures, its shows great sportsmanship , like not punching someone when they are down. The chaingate was decisive, Im a contador fan, but If im Schleck Im livid at what I would think was taking advantage of a mechanical. I dont like the reaction of the peloton to 99 Oropa and Pantani either but it happens .

 

[sir fly]

There have been many greats in cycling's long history. Andy certainly is not one of them.

Put up or shut up!

 

[Jspear]

If this is a fact, it seriously discredits the popular hype that the competition at La Vuelta this year was so great.

If that lessens the hype for you, ok fine.
IMO the hype was very much there. Out of the "biggest" gc guys there was AC and Froome (better than the Giro or Tour where in the end there was only 1 of the "biggest" gc guys), there was also Aru, Jrod, Valverde, ect. The battle for the overall and the top 10 GC was very nice because it was just that - a battle. It wasn't a one man show. There was suspense all the way to the end of the Vuelta.

 

[Angliru]

Put up or shut up!

What the Hell are you going on about?!! He is not one of the greats. What has he done to be considered among the sports all-time elite? YOU put up or shut up.

 

[sir fly]

What the Hell are you going on about?!! He is not one of the greats. What has he done to be considered among the sports all-time elite? YOU put up or shut up.

You know what I'm going on about... The bet.
Since then - you're discredited poster.
So... shhhhhhhh...ut up.

 

[Jspear]

You know what I'm going on about... The bet.
Since then - you're discredited poster.
So... shhhhhhhh...ut up.

You shouldn't hold grudges...it's just a cycling forum.
Back to AC.

 

[Electress]

It would eat at me too. Contador shouldnt have attacked Schleck's chaingate issue. Sure its over and let it go but standing on that top step on the final day in Paris, riding that final day in yellow on the Champs Elysses, hearin your anthem is a big part of being champ. Im sure that hit him financially as well. The most beautiful win of his career, had big elements of winning(mentioned above) left out. Did they just deliver his Yellow jersey, prize money and the trophy to him at his house? No team around, no fans, the memories of the battles are not as fresh as the final day in Paris ceremonies where the atmosphere is different than A.Schlecks living room.

Pointing out one's disappointment straight after the event - yes, I get that response. That is only human. Otherwise, the only way to answer Contador was on the road. (The way Contador answered Armstrong, comes to mind). The trouble with Andy has always been he ultimately always lacked the will to do so. It was easier to have an excuse rather than fight like a dog to demonstrate 'cheaters' (if he felt that way) don't prosper. But Andy was always an excuse finder. That mentality was what denied him all the palmares he 'might have had' - not AC or anyone else.

And the if only game is illusory - quite apart from the fact that Andy seems to have selective memory about that very same tour, would anyone have raced the same way if there had not been those 39 seconds? No. As LaFlo and Angliru pointed out, there's more to it than Contador just exploited a mechanical and therefore won the race.

Contador is no saint; I'm not deluded. But on the whole, it always seems to me that he doesn't indulge in this kind of petty sniping and its to his credit. Ok, it's easier to do that when you are a multi-tour winner and not the nearly man. But surely Andy can see even hinting at this petty stuff so long after the event makes him look terrible? Contador has moved on. So has the rest of the world. Even if Schleck still seethes with resentment (which would be sad enough) he should recognise that saying such things makes him look like he is still sitting in his room 4 years later festering with resentment because there's nothing else worth anything in his life to think about.

 

[LaFlorecita]

You know what I'm going on about... The bet.
Since then - you're discredited poster.
So... shhhhhhhh...ut up.

Some people just don't bet

Get over it.

 

[lebbegehtweider]

I really don't understand Andy and his fanboys in this chaingate issue. Let's remeber the questionable stages in that tour:

Stage 2: Andy chrashed and would have lost several minutes. Cancellara tried to neutralize he stage and the GC contenders (including) accepted to wait for Andy. He would have lost the tour in this stage already.

Stage 3: Contador was stopped by a crash of Frank. Cancellara/Andy didn't wait but gave full gas in order to gain as much time as possible. Contador lost 1:13.

Stage 16: Chaingate: Now Contador did not wait anymore and took 39s back.

So I don't see how Contador can be accused on this.

In priciple there a two different opinions on the "waiting issue" in cases of mechanicals or crashes:
1. The rivals have to wait.
2. Don't wait, just take an advantage from it.

I tend more to version 2, but it depends on the circumstances. I can also understand if someone prefers version 1.

But in Andys (and his fanboys) world its like: "The others have to wait for me, but I don't have to wait for the others."

 

[richo36]

I really don't understand Andy and his fanboys in this chaingate issue. Let's remeber the questionable stages in that tour:

Stage 2: Andy chrashed and would have lost several minutes. Cancellara tried to neutralize he stage and the GC contenders (including) accepted to wait for Andy. He would have lost the tour in this stage already.

Stage 3: Contador was stopped by a crash of Frank. Cancellara/Andy didn't wait but gave full gas in order to gain as much time as possible. Contador lost 1:13.

Stage 16: Chaingate: Now Contador did not wait anymore and took 39s back.

So I don't see how Contador can be accused on this.

In priciple there a two different opinions on the "waiting issue" in cases of mechanicals or crashes:
1. The rivals have to wait.
2. Don't wait, just take an advantage from it.

I tend more to version 2, but it depends on the circumstances. I can also understand if someone prefers version 1.

But in Andys (and his fanboys) world its like: "The others have to wait for me, but I don't have to wait for the others."

Didn't on stage 2 a few people crash even after the neutralisation by Fabian? At the end of the day the other GC riders could of pushed on, but wanted to be safe. That was there call.

Stage 3 was a cobbled stage. We all knew there was going to be crashes, which is why positioning is so critical. It was if I'm not mistaken Fabian and co already driving the pace at the time of the crash. In a cobbled stage race when the pressure is being applied you can't expect riders to sit up. Contador should of been further forward simple as that. Note: he got caught out again this year. This is why in my opinion cobbles should be in the tour. Best rider over all terrain not just TT and mountains.

Stage 16: to my understand the chain gate more or likely was caused by andy himself. Which screams poor biking riding. If it were a flat tyre or spectator jumped out and grabbed andy I would expect contador to wait but if it is something that is to a high chance the riders own fault I would expect the other rider to continue

Overall contador won the tour fair and square.

 

[lebbegehtweider]

Isnt thier un-written rules regarding the yellow jersey? Does that mean Ullrich should have attacked Armstrong after Armstrong drew his sword on Luz Ardiden?

Arghhhhh, don't remember me on this. I jumped from the couch and screamed to the tv "go, go, go, go, you f... idiot, don't wait, just go".

Bitter memories.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Didn't on stage 2 a few people crash even after the neutralisation by Fabian? At the end of the day the other GC riders could of pushed on, but wanted to be safe. That was there call.

Stage 3 was a cobbled stage. We all knew there was going to be crashes, which is why positioning is so critical. It was if I'm not mistaken Fabian and co already driving the pace at the time of the crash. In a cobbled stage race when the pressure is being applied you can't expect riders to sit up. Contador should of been further forward simple as that. Note: he got caught out again this year. This is why in my opinion cobbles should be in the tour. Best rider over all terrain not just TT and mountains.

Stage 16: to my understand the chain gate more or likely was caused by andy himself. Which screams poor biking riding. If it were a flat tyre or spectator jumped out and grabbed andy I would expect contador to wait but if it is something that is to a high chance the riders own fault I would expect the other rider to continue

Overall contador won the tour fair and square.

The crash on the cobbles was pretty close to the front iirc. Since it was Saxo pushing the pace.
Contador rode a good race on the cobbles, he was in the second group and finished 13th.
He got screwed over by the rain this year.

 

[lebbegehtweider]

Stage 3 was a cobbled stage. We all knew there was going to be crashes, which is why positioning is so critical. It was if I'm not mistaken Fabian and co already driving the pace at the time of the crash. In a cobbled stage race when the pressure is being applied you can't expect riders to sit up. Contador should of been further forward simple as that. Note: he got caught out again this year. This is why in my opinion cobbles should be in the tour. Best rider over all terrain not just TT and mountains.

Yes, Contador could be further forward, thus it was partly his own fault. But it was also bad luck, since you cannot ride on the front all day and he crashed not himself but was affected by a crash of a teammate of Andy. However as you said its fully ok for me when other riders take an advantage from it.
But what is the difference to stage 2? There were difficult circumstances and some riders crashed (including Andy) and others not. It is also a mix of own fault and bad luck. And if my rivals gifted me several minutes that I would have lost according to a crash (and poor descent skills), I would have qualms to take advantage of a crash on the very next day, even when it was on cobbles.

And putting all this together its very strange to cry over an unfair Contador after stage 16. There may be different ways of viewing on these stages, but for sure Andy isn't the saint, while Contador is evil.

This is why in my opinion cobbles should be in the tour. Best rider over all terrain not just TT and mountains.

Overall contador won the tour fair and square.

Agree.

 

[richo36]

The crash on the cobbles was pretty close to the front iirc. Since it was Saxo pushing the pace.
Contador rode a good race on the cobbles, he was in the second group and finished 13th.
He got screwed over by the rain this year.

Don't get me wrong he wasn't that far back but still far enough back for the damage to be done. Both cadel and andy managed to be ahead at the crash. Obviously andy had an advantage with having fabian.

Also side note, cadel has to be one of the best first week riders in gt's. Always seemed to get thru without losing little to no time.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Agree.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why should cobbled stages be more important than TTs and mountains? Sometimes the route is defined by TTs (2012), sometimes it is defined by mountains (2014). Why should the route always be defined by cobbles? Once every 3-4-5 years is fine. Not every year.

 

[richo36]

Yes, Contador could be further forward, thus it was partly his own fault. But it was also bad luck, since you cannot ride on the front all day and he crashed not himself but was affected by a crash of a teammate of Andy. However as you said its fully ok for me when other riders take an advantage from it.
But what is the difference to stage 2? There were difficult circumstances and some riders crashed (including Andy) and others not. It is also a mix of own fault and bad luck. And if my rivals gifted me several minutes that I would have lost according to a crash (and poor descent skills), I would have qualms to take advantage of a crash on the very next day, even when it was on cobbles.

And putting all this together its very strange to cry over an unfair Contador after stage 16. There may be different ways of viewing on these stages, but for sure Andy isn't the saint, while Contador is evil.

.

The difference is that contador and others made the choice to sit up stage 2. Fabian simply asked and they agreed as it was dangerous being wet and oily that day. None of them were going to win the tour by pushing on that day but you sure could lose it. So they chose to sit up.

Stage 3 the pressure was already being applied at time of crash. It's not as if there was a crash, and then they went to the front and smashed a heavy pace. They already were. And crashes as I said are part of cobbled races. It's unfortunent that it is frank who crashed but that would of been even more reason for them to slow down and wait for him, until they got news of broken collarbone. Contador obviously couldn't be on the front but being glued to andys wheel wouldn't of been a bad idea.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yeah, Fabian "asked" them to slow down

And being glued to Andy's wheel on the cobbles is not really a great idea.

But, okay, Contador himself also said he'd decided to wait for Andy on stage 2. Then on stage 3, Andy did not wait for Contador. Then on stage 16, Contador should have waited for Andy again?! That's not how it works, Andy my dear.

 

[richo36]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why should cobbled stages be more important than TTs and mountains? Sometimes the route is defined by TTs (2012), sometimes it is defined by mountains (2014). Why should the route always be defined by cobbles? Once every 3-4-5 years is fine. Not every year.

It's how heavy the cobbles are every year. Some years you can have a mini PR other years just pass over a couple easy segements. So they are there every year but some years they will define the tour other years they will just be another stage

I would like to see a MSR style stage ever year, Ardennes style stage every year, a big giro mountain stage every year, a standard tour mountain stage, vuelta style mountain stage, a downhill finish, flat and a hilly TT (mtt in as well but 2 TT max). Then mix up to the degree of how difficult the stages are each yeah.

 

[LaFlorecita]

It's how heavy the cobbles are every year. Some years you can have a mini PR other years just pass over a couple easy segements. So they are there every year but some years they will define the tour other years they will just be another stage

I would like to see a MSR style stage ever year, Ardennes style stage every year, a big giro mountain stage every year, a standard tour mountain stage, vuelta style mountain stage, a downhill finish, flat and a hilly TT (mtt in as well but 2 TT max). Then mix up to the degree of how difficult the stages are each yeah.

Of course, but ASO don't want "just a couple easy segments". If there are cobbled segments, they are hard and plentiful. Hence if you're asking for cobbles every year, you're looking at a mini PR every year. And that seems like an overkill to me.

It's only a matter of time until at least one of the favorites crashes out on the cobbles. Once that happens we won't see them for a few years. Until then, ASO will continue to push the hype created by last year's stage (which is overrated in my opinion).

 

[Angliru]

Put up or shut up!

In other words you have no argument. Why don't you just STHU if you have nothing to contribute to the conversation?

 

[richo36]

Yeah, Fabian "asked" them to slow down

And being glued to Andy's wheel on the cobbles is not really a great idea.

But, okay, Contador himself also said he'd decided to wait for Andy on stage 2. Then on stage 3, Andy did not wait for Contador. Then on stage 16, Contador should have waited for Andy again?! That's not how it works, Andy my dear.

I didn't say contador should of waited on stage 16. Said he was right to keep riding. As I said I put andy chain gate down to his own personal doing, therefore contador has every right to keep riding. If andy got a flat tyre or spectator grabbed andy I would of expected contador to wait. However I think what contador did was right.

And of course he said that after stage 2. Makes him look like the professional. The tour wasn't going to be won on that stage but could be lost. Eg pushing the pace then crashing himself. Slowing down knowing there is more important stages to come then telling the media we waited for andy is good PR. Worked completely in his favour.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I didn't say contador should of waited on stage 16. Said he was right to keep riding. As I said I put andy chain gate down to his own personal doing, therefore contador has every right to keep riding. If andy got a flat tyre or spectator grabbed andy I would of expected contador to wait. However I think what contador did was right.

Yes, I know, you already made your point. I tried to write down Andy's train of thought. Hence "that's not how it works, Andy my dear"

And of course he said that after stage 2. Makes him look like the professional. The tour wasn't going to be won on that stage but could be lost. Eg pushing the pace then crashing himself. Slowing down knowing there is more important stages to come then telling the media we waited for andy is good PR. Worked completely in his favour.

Well, that is your opinion, I have a different view