Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[staubsauger]

Haha good one

Let's not forget AC emptied himself with several attacks trying to go alone get a Jersey that Rasmussen earned in a breakaway.

He was dropped by Leipheimer as well, which shows that all those attacks clearly affected him. He was young as well.

Rasmussen suceeded his longe range attack on his own. Nearly taking all the pulls on his own after getting clear. Without loosing much time on the chasing and fighting favorites group behind him up to Tignes.

Contador failed to round off his longe range attack. Despite having a teammate with him and was caught by the favorites group again.

Rasmussen was able to crack an empty Contador after a nearly week long man against man battle on the slopes of the Aubisque.

Contador failed to crack the struggling Rasmussen, who hang on for his life and managed to lose no significant time.

 

[BlurryVII]

Haha good one

Let's not forget AC emptied himself with several attacks trying to go alone get a Jersey that Rasmussen earned in a breakaway.

He was dropped by Leipheimer as well, which shows that all those attacks clearly affected him. He was young as well.

Rasmussen suceeded his longe range attack on his own. Nearly taking all the pulls on his own after getting clear. Without loosing much time on the chasing and fighting favorites group behind him up to Tignes.

Contador failed to round off his longe range attack. Despite having a teammate with him and was caught by the favorites group again.

Rasmussen was able to crack an empty Contador after a nearly week long man against man battle on the slopes of the Aubisque.

Contador failed to crack the struggling Rasmussen, who hang on for his life and managed to lose no significant time.

Are you really gonna compare Tignes' stage including a series of HC and 1 category climbs perfect for a long range attack with the Galibier stage where Contador attacked which had a long flat valley route after it?

Also the favorites were looking at each other on Tignes and Contador punctured at a moment where he could've attacked.

After that it was Contador who made all the attacks, not Rassmussen who was just laying on the gap he got in Tignes stage where nobody cared to chase him.

 

[BlurryVII]

And all those attacks eventually bit him as you'd expect. Contador was just 24 years trying to claw back a 2 min deficit he lost in one stage.

 

[Brullnux]

Ssshhh stop Contador talk until after 15:30 CET. Right now it's Strade Bianche time.

 

[HelloDolly]

It is impossible to argue against Contador 'fans' who will only accept the 'argument' that 'no one will beat Contador at his best' ...which seemed to be in 2009. And since we have no time machine this is impossible to disprove ( based on their logic)

Taxusa makes some valid points but because of the dogma on here they are lost in the noise
Winning is the only valid indication of being at your best ...I am sure there are many good riders out there who never 'won at their best' and many who won 'not at their best'; ...but it doesn't matter ..it is an arbitrary measure that is meaningless in comparison to victory

I would suggest Taxua you argue on what we know ...not what is surmised here i.e. who won the actual race...
Because you cannot win this argument as it based on as I say not facts but dogma as no one knows when a rider is at his top ...
And it easy in hindsight and from defeat to say 'so and so was not at his top form'

Also these arguments are spurious and seem to be based on some pre race face saving constructs that go like this

Contador wins ...yeah we are all happy
Contador loses ...oh but he is not at his best

its almost as if the brigade are putting up the hatches in preparation for defeat. And have turned to thoughts of legacy
"Contador was the greatest champion ever.Anyone defeats him it doesn't matter becasue he was not at his best" ...win win situation if your whole raison d'etre as a fan is to glorify the object of your fanatism rather than live in the real world

As for decline and length of career
Contador did have a hiatus in the middle when suspended by UCI

To use the PCS points to prove peak age is not just unscientific but ignores GT peak is different to other winning races ...but also uses evidence that counters your own argument ..." top form is not indicated by wining' argument for 'Contador v his rivals' thread discussion but wining is an indication of top form for other riders ?

Like I said you can't argue against dogma

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

Taxusa makes some valid points

Oops, I stopped reading here.

 

[cantpedal]

Oh look at Taxus trying to spin this into another "Contador can still reach his best level but others are just stronger" argument, how surprising

that's just another dogmatic, supremely generalized assertion. some fans are sincerely convinced that if bertie reaches his tip top shape and doesn't crash he'll win this year's tour. taxus is entirely entitled to believe his mantra. what's wrong with someone not having such optimistic expectations like you?

Facts have proven that Contador at his best is unbeatable. Taxus can have his opinion as everyone that's cool, but it's plain wrong.

Contador is not inferior to many riders when he is at his best. Simple as that really. You're gonna try to argue that too?

You have no arguments anyway, you just always come with the same posts over and over again 'oh but at the end of the day, it's just a dogmatic topic, everyone could be right'. Nope.

Facts are that Froome at his best can't be beaten.... see where your argument fails there

 

[BlurryVII]

Oh look at Taxus trying to spin this into another "Contador can still reach his best level but others are just stronger" argument, how surprising

that's just another dogmatic, supremely generalized assertion. some fans are sincerely convinced that if bertie reaches his tip top shape and doesn't crash he'll win this year's tour. taxus is entirely entitled to believe his mantra. what's wrong with someone not having such optimistic expectations like you?

Facts have proven that Contador at his best is unbeatable. Taxus can have his opinion as everyone that's cool, but it's plain wrong.

Contador is not inferior to many riders when he is at his best. Simple as that really. You're gonna try to argue that too?

You have no arguments anyway, you just always come with the same posts over and over again 'oh but at the end of the day, it's just a dogmatic topic, everyone could be right'. Nope.

Facts are that Froome at his best can't be beaten.... see where your argument fails there

I agree, for now Froome hasn't been beaten at his best. Granted.

My argument doesn't fail though, did he ride against Top form Contador? Nope. The only time they were both on equal terms was the Vuelta 14', where Contador beat Froome. None of them was at his best.

 

[staubsauger]

Haha good one

Let's not forget AC emptied himself with several attacks trying to go alone get a Jersey that Rasmussen earned in a breakaway.

He was dropped by Leipheimer as well, which shows that all those attacks clearly affected him. He was young as well.

Rasmussen suceeded his longe range attack on his own. Nearly taking all the pulls on his own after getting clear. Without loosing much time on the chasing and fighting favorites group behind him up to Tignes.

Contador failed to round off his longe range attack. Despite having a teammate with him and was caught by the favorites group again.

Rasmussen was able to crack an empty Contador after a nearly week long man against man battle on the slopes of the Aubisque.

Contador failed to crack the struggling Rasmussen, who hang on for his life and managed to lose no significant time.

Are you really gonna compare Tignes' stage including a series of HC and 1 category climbs perfect for a long range attack with the Galibier stage where Contador attacked which had a long flat valley route after it?

Also the favorites were looking at each other on Tignes and Contador punctured at a moment where he could've attacked.

After that it was Contador who made all the attacks, not Rassmussen who was just laying on the gap he got in Tignes stage where nobody cared to chase him.

https://youtu.be/QMaPvrIxvycRasmussen opened the fire himself a few times, coped with all of Contador's attacks and finally went away in the Pyrenees.

And it's new to me that having the tactical strengh and the sheer power to attack at the right time, on the right stage while lying the foundation to a back then possible Tour win counts in disfavor nowadays. It was all planned for a year or so after all.

Rasmussen eventually was the strongest. And it's the only time someone has beaten a peak shape Contador in fact. That tells enough about chickens power there and Contador's quality during his ongoing career.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Taxusa makes some valid points

Oops, I stopped reading here.

Me too

 

[cantpedal]

2 points first if by some miracle they both show up at a Grand tour in top form none of us will admit it after our guy is beaten.
second even within a GT form comes and goes that's why I am so against shortening the length of a GT

 

[Ramon Koran]

Oh look at Taxus trying to spin this into another "Contador can still reach his best level but others are just stronger" argument, how surprising

that's just another dogmatic, supremely generalized assertion. some fans are sincerely convinced that if bertie reaches his tip top shape and doesn't crash he'll win this year's tour. taxus is entirely entitled to believe his mantra. what's wrong with someone not having such optimistic expectations like you?

Facts have proven that Contador at his best is unbeatable. Taxus can have his opinion as everyone that's cool, but it's plain wrong.

Contador is not inferior to many riders when he is at his best. Simple as that really. You're gonna try to argue that too?

You have no arguments anyway, you just always come with the same posts over and over again 'oh but at the end of the day, it's just a dogmatic topic, everyone could be right'. Nope.

Facts are that Froome at his best can't be beaten.... see where your argument fails there

I agree, for now Froome hasn't been beaten at his best. Granted.

My argument doesn't fail though, did he ride against Top form Contador? Nope. The only time they were both on equal terms was the Vuelta 14', where Contador beat Froome. None of them was at his best.

Froome 2014 was not the same as froome from 2013 and 2015, what's more we can't compare two injured riders we don't know the circumstances etc so saying they were on equal terms is purely guess work. I would suggest the only time when a comparaison is valid is dauphine 2014 before the crash. As we saw on stage 2 froome 2014 was stronger than the best contador in years. We can safely assume there for that unless contador reaches 2009 level he will be crushed by froome

 

[staubsauger]

To be fair, then the Contador fans got a valid point as it's very like time simply catched up with him after all. He has shown flashes of declining before actually.

We only gonna know afterwards probably. He intends to get to the Tour in his well-known best shape. The fact whether he's able to do so tells us the truth.

Ruta del Sol 2015 might have been the closest thing to a equal Froome versus Contador battle we have seen or will see.

But let's simply wait for July and try to judge by the facts we get presented there.

 

[BlurryVII]

Froome 2014 was not the same as froome from 2013 and 2015, what's more we can't compare two injured riders we don't know the circumstances etc so saying they were on equal terms is purely guess work. I would suggest the only time when a comparaison is valid is dauphine 2014 before the crash. As we saw on stage 2 froome 2014 was stronger than the best contador in years. We can safely assume there for that unless contador reaches 2009 level he will be crushed by froome

Well, Contador getting back from 8 weeks without racing and Froome having ridden the Romandie 14' and usually starting the Tour in peak form from day 1 would suggest he was in better form in the early stages of the Dauphiné 2014.

That's still speculation but the worst is that you use the injury factor to say they were not in the same form during the Vuelta 14'. Who crashed later in the Tour ? Contador, injured in the leg. Froome in his wrist. See the difference.

 

[BlurryVII]

Like I've always said, Dauphiné a preperation race and Froome will always have the edge on Contador during that race simply because he rides Romandie and peaks from day 1 at the Tour.

Contador has always been average at the Dauphiné, even in 2009 it was probably his worst form of the whole season. Says a lot.

If they meet at the Dauphiné this year, I wouldn't be surprised that Froome wins. Tour is another story if Contador doesn't crash like in 2014.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Taxusa makes some valid points

Oops, I stopped reading here.

Me too

I now have them both on ignore so missed it all

 

[dacooley]

Re:

Like I've always said, Dauphiné a preperation race and Froome will always have the edge on Contador during that race simply because he rides Romandie and peaks from day 1 at the Tour.

Contador has always been average at the Dauphiné, even in 2009 it was probably his worst form of the whole season. Says a lot.

If they meet at the Dauphiné this year, I wouldn't be surprised that Froome wins. Tour is another story if Contador doesn't crash like in 2014.

so you'll be surprised if froome wins the tour? alright, for le tour, i'd give contador and froome a 35% chance of winning, nairo 25%, all the others - 5%. what's your prediction?

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Like I've always said, Dauphiné a preperation race and Froome will always have the edge on Contador during that race simply because he rides Romandie and peaks from day 1 at the Tour.

Contador has always been average at the Dauphiné, even in 2009 it was probably his worst form of the whole season. Says a lot.

If they meet at the Dauphiné this year, I wouldn't be surprised that Froome wins. Tour is another story if Contador doesn't crash like in 2014.

so you'll be surprised if froome wins the tour? alright, for le tour, i'd give contador and froome a 35% chance of winning, nairo 25%, all the others - 5%. what's your prediction?

Probably the same.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I now have them both on ignore so missed it all

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

so you'll be surprised if froome wins the tour? alright, for le tour, i'd give contador and froome a 35% chance of winning, nairo 25%, all the others - 5%. what's your prediction?

Froome 35% Contador 25% Quintana 15% Aru 15% others 10%

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

so you'll be surprised if froome wins the tour? alright, for le tour, i'd give contador and froome a 35% chance of winning, nairo 25%, all the others - 5%. what's your prediction?

Froome 35% Contador 25% Quintana 15% Aru 15% others 10%

These are the odds. Needless to say they differ quite a bit from your's:

2.10, Froome
3,25, Quintana
4,50, Contador

17,00 Aru
17,00 Porte.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

so you'll be surprised if froome wins the tour? alright, for le tour, i'd give contador and froome a 35% chance of winning, nairo 25%, all the others - 5%. what's your prediction?

Froome 35% Contador 25% Quintana 15% Aru 15% others 10%

These are the odds. Needless to say they differ quite a bit from your's:

2.10, Froome
3,25, Quintana
4,50, Contador

17,00 Aru
17,00 Porte.

I've made my opinion about odds clear many times.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

so you'll be surprised if froome wins the tour? alright, for le tour, i'd give contador and froome a 35% chance of winning, nairo 25%, all the others - 5%. what's your prediction?

Froome 35% Contador 25% Quintana 15% Aru 15% others 10%

These are the odds. Needless to say they differ quite a bit from your's:

2.10, Froome
3,25, Quintana
4,50, Contador

17,00 Aru
17,00 Porte.

Yeah, but seriously. Putting Aru on the same rate as Porte is taking away all credibility from these odds!

 

[LaFlorecita]

By the way, did any of you odds geeks notice how Berto's odds went from 9 to 4.5 in a few months' time?

 

[HelloDolly]

There is Fabian Cancellera riding since the Mapie days and has won and ridden many monumnets and raced hard

And he will be 35 next week

No one of his fans are talking about top form or not
They know that a champion is a champion
And a champion rides to win and not with excuses