Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Also wanted to say that some of Contador's fans here give the impression (and in fact have even said it) that the ONLY race that they were both in top shape was the 2014 Vuelta. I think that's total nonsense. I don't think Froome was in top shape there.

Neither was Contador but its the closest they been eachother conditions wice in a GT god how hard is it to understand ?

Isn't getting into top shape part of the battle?

How many times does this need to be said for some of you to understand something that simple?

When you ride the giro its impossible to get into top peak condition for the TDF

Last year before the giro, all I saw here were wet dreams about Contador doing the double. Some even suggested the treble.

Here is what I had to say

I have no idea what Contador is doing riding this. Unless his rivals all crash out and saxo neutralizes every stage he won't even make it to the TDF startline.

So please in the future don't patronizingly lecture me about the difficulties of doing the Giro Tour double.

 

[BlurryVII]

I was completely against the idea of him doing the double last year. I knew it'd just wrongly reinforce the idea that he doesn't do well in the Tour anymore even if the Giro is the reason for that.

But he stated that he wanted another challenge to motivate him and just didn't want to copy paste his 2014 season probably unwilling to put everything on one race after what happened. Such a shame. Hope this year, he finally takes care of that unfinished Tour business as Rogers would say.

 

[blackmamba]

Re: Re:

Also wanted to say that some of Contador's fans here give the impression (and in fact have even said it) that the ONLY race that they were both in top shape was the 2014 Vuelta. I think that's total nonsense. I don't think Froome was in top shape there.

Neither was Contador but its the closest they been eachother conditions wice in a GT god how hard is it to understand ?

Isn't getting into top shape part of the battle?

How many times does this need to be said for some of you to understand something that simple?

When you ride the giro its impossible to get into top peak condition for the TDF

Last year before the giro, all I saw here were wet dreams about Contador doing the double. Some even suggested the treble.

Here is what I had to say

I have no idea what Contador is doing riding this. Unless his rivals all crash out and saxo neutralizes every stage he won't even make it to the TDF startline.

So please in the future don't patronizingly lecture me about the difficulties of doing the Giro Tour double.

Who are you to decide if he should try on the giro - tour double or not? Its not your career.

However I agree it was a ambitious move and all that and neither did I think it was doable by any chance at all,but who cant really blame him for wanting to try it, he had to try it out to know if he was able to do it or not was his own words himself and honestly noone can blame him for trying it, if anything one should celebrate and respect such a brave move regardless of whom you support atleast thats what I think as a cycling fan to bad ''fanboys'' cant see things for what it is and have to act like baboons and say things which make literally no sense at all.

 

[Irondan]

Please post comments wrt the topic at hand.

Comments posted that engage in off topic chatter will be removed, with possible action taken if the same members insist on posting in this manner.

If members feel the need to speak to each other use a PM, rather than cluttering the thread with off topic chatter.

Cheers

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Fanboy rubbish is as always off the charts. What I probably dislike the most on the forum is that a significant part of forumers hate to doubt and hesitate in their opinions. Almost any controversial situations are handled with 1000% belief in one's rightness. It should seem just give other participant of the debate some slack, but NO 'I'm aware of everything, you are just a clueless fanboy who's unable to deal with proven facts'. That's pathetic.

Have patience and let Bertie win the Tour in 2 months or forget about excuses if doesn't happen. It is as simple as that.

 

[dacooley]

Vuelta is never get ridden so hard as the Tour. Furthermore, climbing times have never been and will never be 100% reliable indicator. Take 2 exactly the same stages finishing on alpe d'huez or any other big climb and hold them as stage 1 two years in a row, that would be quite an objective comparison and great material for analysis. but comparing climbing times from different gts from different seasons and making strong conclusions on who was / was not in top shape goes far beyond the scope of rational thinking

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

The same analogy can be applied about Froome's 2014 Vuelta as well. It is obvious that Froome wasnt at his best in the Vuelta with all his yoyo-ing and dropping behind Aru Jrod and Piti in several cases, several times.
By the same analogy Froome might not have an explanation why he was below par and couldn't achieve his peak in the whole Vuelta.

Have you seen the climbing times for Froome for that race?

P.S. I guess we are focused in their closest comparison in GT only. Because if we leave GTs aside there is always the first two stages of the 2014 Dauphine which remain the best medium of comparison of their performances in(or close to) top shape.

No.

Have you?

 

[Red Rick]

Thank you for providing the proof that Contador was also not even close to his 2012 times

 

[Miburo]

And Contador is prob gonna ride at least 2 more years. Well who said that before heh?

He also destroyed you guys plans of giro-vuelta in 2017, he wants to do the tour.

Those times of lagos are stupid, there were standing still most of the times in 2014

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

The same analogy can be applied about Froome's 2014 Vuelta as well. It is obvious that Froome wasnt at his best in the Vuelta with all his yoyo-ing and dropping behind Aru Jrod and Piti in several cases, several times.
By the same analogy Froome might not have an explanation why he was below par and couldn't achieve his peak in the whole Vuelta.

Have you seen the climbing times for Froome for that race?

Agree with Ataraxus.
It was obvious to me at the time, especially in the first 2 weeks of the Vuelta, that Froome was not in peak shape. He had a poor time trial by his usual standards and was yo yoing on the first mountain stages. Looked like he was just trying to find some form, which he sort of did in the last few days. But he never hit 100%. I suspect that after his fractured hand and broken wrist he just took it pretty easy for a couple of weeks after he abandoned the Tour. And as Taxus pointed out, Contador had the benefit of a few hard extra days in the Tour before he abandoned.

P.S. I guess we are focused in their closest comparison in GT only. Because if we leave GTs aside there is always the first two stages of the 2014 Dauphine which remain the best medium of comparison of their performances in(or close to) top shape.

No.

Don't know how Flo can just declare 'No' (like that wins the debate)?
I think Ataraxus is right. I have often thought myself that the beginning of the 2014 Dauphine is the very closest both have been to peak condition at the same time. They were both exactly at the same point in their preparation for the Tour. And Froome proved to be the slightly stronger, winning the prologue by 8 seconds and beating Contador in the next day MTF. Froome won the two stages and was in the leader's jersey. It's clear they were both really going for it as well.

What came later:- between the Tour and Vuelta; how their respective rehabilitation from injuries went; their respective training; the sort of condition both showed up in at that Vuelta; - one can only speculate. But it certainly did not look like a top shape Froome to me.

Don't know (I am surprised actually) how laFlo replied to me by making my comments stick for a longer time to the AC thread pages

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

I think before the whole discussion gets deleted we should rather discuss this topic here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20956&start=680

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

I think before the whole discussion gets deleted we should rather discuss this topic here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20956&start=680

+1, please, because I want to read news about Alberto but I don't want to read the endless comparisons to some boring pathetic alien kenyan weirdo.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

I think before the whole discussion gets deleted we should rather discuss this topic here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20956&start=680

Good idea...

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Don't know how Flo can just declare 'No' (like that wins the debate)?
I think Ataraxus is right. I have often thought myself that the beginning of the 2014 Dauphine is the very closest both have been to peak condition at the same time. They were both exactly at the same point in their preparation for the Tour. And Froome proved to be the slightly stronger, winning the prologue by 8 seconds and beating Contador in the next day MTF. Froome won the two stages and was in the leader's jersey. It's clear they were both really going for it as well.

What came later:- between the Tour and Vuelta; how their respective rehabilitation from injuries went; their respective training; the sort of condition both showed up in at that Vuelta; - one can only speculate. But it certainly did not look like a top shape Froome to me.

The Dauphiné is irrelevant, it's a prep race which doesn't matter and where AC has always been average. He beat Froome though, whether Froome would've been able to keep up with him without the crash is speculation since AC was only getting better.

Of course Froome didn't look top shape to you in the Vuelta, he lost lol. That's natural bias. However he really was close to top shape in the 3rd week.

In response to bold para.
Then I might as well say that of course Contador didn't look top shape to you in the 2013 Tour - he lost lol. That's natural bias. However he really was close to top shape in 2013 Tour. Because he himself said his numbers and times between the 2013 Dauphine and Tour were his best ever. He also came a close 2nd (to Froome) in the hilly Alps TT in 2013 Tour.

What?
He climbed Ax-3 Domaines 57 seconds slower than 2010 where he was doing trackstands with Schleck and they were even dropped by Menchov/Sanchez who were 34 seconds slower than Froome 2013.
He climbed Ventoux 1:18 slower than 2009 where was a very strong headwind and he was doing trackstands with Schleck again.
He climbed L'Alpe roughly 10 seconds slower than in 2011 where he was injured and atatcked like a madman in Telegraphe and went full gas.
He did a very bad TT in stage 11.
He was terrible at Semnoz as well.
He either messed up his form or lied to us.It is pretty simple

 

[blackmamba]

Re: Re:

Some fans have this urgent need to compare their rider to Contdador cause like everyone else they know hes the best.

 

[bajbar]

We should discuss the Contador interview that was posted on Cyclingnews today. I find it really positive that he still has the fighting spirit and that he still wants a team fully commited to him doing the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

I was reallu surprised hes basically already committing to the tour in 2017, especially since its its La Centesima (?)

 

[Jspear]

Re:

I was reallu surprised hes basically already committing to the tour in 2017, especially since its its La Centesima (?)

Yep. Kinda interesting. In my mind he should do the Giro-Vuelta again next year. Maybe if he wins this Tour he'll feel less pressure to return.

 

[Tonton]

Warning: we all know the rules of this forum: don't we?

 

[Tonton]

I don't think that we can learn much about history, or that we can achieve anything by interpreting or re-writing it. The two haven't had the same objectives, except in '14 and were even on the Dauphine, days before the TdF began. Now we 're in '16. Alberto is not getting any younger. Yet, we witnessed a good start of the year for Contador in the one-week races. He seems to be building up quite well. He is explosive. We can speculate all we want about his two main rivals, Froome in particular. But right now, Bertie's fans can feel good about his chances in July. Big concern, though: his team is weak...

 

[Miburo]

Oh boy fleur, i never thought you or me could hate Wuyts even more but somehow the man did it.

Today he wrote something on Nibali and of course he mentioned the tour 2014. He could have said that he thinks it was unlikely that Contador would have closed the gap of 2:30 on nibali which would be a reasonable opinion although i disagree but no he went a bit further.

He said that the Contador of 2014 was no match at all for nibali in that tour.

He said even more but i don't wanna make this a nibali vs contador thread

 

[Red Rick]

Source Miburo? I don't think I've every hear Wuyts say something positive about Contador. Or something negative about Sky. He sees a chance to indirectly bash Contador, he takes it

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Source Miburo? I don't think I've every hear Wuyts say something positive about Contador. Or something negative about Sky. He sees a chance to indirectly bash Contador, he takes it

There's a youtube video, about Contador's crash & seizure in the 2004 Vuelta a Asturias, and in the comments Wuyts wrote: "falls off his bike like Manzano. Maybe they ate the same Spanish steak?"

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Oh boy fleur, i never thought you or me could hate Wuyts even more but somehow the man did it.

Today he wrote something on Nibali and of course he mentioned the tour 2014. He could have said that he thinks it was unlikely that Contador would have closed the gap of 2:30 on nibali which would be a reasonable opinion although i disagree but no he went a bit further.

He said that the Contador of 2014 was no match at all for nibali in that tour.

He said even more but i don't wanna make this a nibali vs contador thread

I don't like thinking about this tour!

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Source Miburo? I don't think I've every hear Wuyts say something positive about Contador. Or something negative about Sky. He sees a chance to indirectly bash Contador, he takes it

First one is to prove it's wuyts saying it, you're dutch so you understand it.