Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Angliru]

Looking at team trek and their signings this year I'm really curious what his next tdf team will be. Trek is a good team on the flat but has hardly any really good climbing domestiques. Pantano is really good but I don't really know the other new Trek riders. And since schleck and hesjedal retire and mollema probably doesn't want to work as a domestique the best climber in the team besides pantano will probably be a 40 year old ninja. Moreover degenklolb will also want a few helpers so there aren't many spots left anyway. Maybe mollema should ride the giro as the leader and then the tdf as a domestique but I don't really think that will be the case.

His team will be crap in the mountains, they'll have some decent domestiques on the flat and then a grandpa, Berto's lapdog, an unmotivated Mollema and one or two neopro's for the mountains.
But I'm used to his team being terrible, so I'm not worried

Thats not fair. His TdF team was very good in 2013,14,15,16. He was crap

Was Froome "crap" in the races he crashed out of or dnf due to injuries? How you can say he was "crap" in 2014-16 is beyond me. Maybe you can enlighten me to your way of thinking?

Dont remember the circumstances of Froome's Dauphine crash, but in Tour he was taken out. Thats quite different from crashing on your own from sheer stupidity (2014 Contador) or bike handling mistake (Contador 2016, and Froome 2016 also crashed, just with less consequences).

Isnt that obvious?

And yes, if that crash on descent with Nibali cost Froome Tour victory, I would have said that he let his team down

As I stated earlier, you just can't see beyond the fog of hate that you have for Contador to recognize that his 2014 crash wasn't due to "stupidity" but due simply bad luck. No rider can know every dip in the roads of 2500 km grand tour. I believe your severe criticism of every Contador miscue is simply petty jealousy. Maybe he beat some fallen hero of your past and now you hold a grudge but your posting history is fine a example of someone that simply can't appreciate the awesome talent that Contador is. You have my sympathies. Maybe later in life you will reach a level of enlightenment where, when reviewing footage of his stellar career you will wonder why you wasted all those years blinded, wandering aimlessly in the darkness of your affliction.

 

[damian13ster]

Nah, the only dislike I have for Contador is because of his doping past.
But I am way closer to the truth than you are when it comes to judging his actual abilities.
And 2014 crash was solely due to his own stupidity. We had interviews from other cyclists saying that Contador tried to move up in the peleton on a dangerous road without both hands on the wheel. Doesnt really sound like an intelligent behaviour now, does it?

 

[Valv.Piti]

What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.

 

[warmfuzzies]

Not in a sport like cycling. Crashes happen. Many great riders besides AC have crashed before....it doesn't mean they were crap in that race.[/quote]

How many Tours did Migs crash out of?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.

So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?

 

[Lexman]

Tinkoff for the Vuelta :

Daniele Bennati (Ita)
Manuele Boaro (Ita)
Alberto Contador (Spa)
Jesus Hernandez (Spa)
Michael Gogl (Oos)
Robert Kiserlovski (Kro)
Sergio Paulinho (Por)
Ivan Rovny (Rus)
Joeri Trofimov (Rus)

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/Vuelta/1.2743510

 

[Matteo.]

Trofimow, Kiser and Hernandez for the mountains.. meh. Anyway in Vueltas he never had strong teams for climbs, so that's ok.
i'm anxious to see him on Mirador de Ezero, 1.8km 13%

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.

So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?

Pretty much, since during all of those years Tour was his main (other than 2015 only) goal. So the team did deliver by putting very strong lineup around him for his main goal. Other than Sky (and their lineuo for Vuelta is hardly impressive) no team is deep enough to provide best support in two GTs a season

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.

So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?

Pretty much, since during all of those years Tour was his main (other than 2015 only) goal. So the team did deliver by putting very strong lineup around him for his main goal. Other than Sky (and their lineuo for Vuelta is hardly impressive) no team is deep enough to provide best support in two GTs a season

Of course, I even said the same thing a few days ago. However, I stated that I am used to his team being crap, and obviously I meant his team in all GTs, not just the Tour. He only finished 3 Tours in the last 6 years and in only 1 of those his team was actually strong, one of if not the best in the race. He finished 7 GTs since joining Saxo, and in all but one his team was mediocre at best.

I didn't blame the team managers, didn't blame the riders, I just innocently stated that I cannot be worried about his team being horrible next year because I'm used to him having hardly any team support in big races. I don't understand why you immediately became so defensive.

 

[sir fly]

This Vuelta is going to be one of the most important races of Contador's career.
He has to show he can beat Froome and Quintana in order to continue with dignity.
Both in terms of his self-confidence and status in new team.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

Trofimow, Kiser and Hernandez for the mountains.. meh. Anyway in Vueltas he never had strong teams for climbs, so that's ok.
i'm anxious to see him on Mirador de Ezero, 1.8km 13%

Horner won without an strong team, Vuelta is different in that

 

[Dedelou]

Re: Re:

What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.

So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?

Pretty much, since during all of those years Tour was his main (other than 2015 only) goal. So the team did deliver by putting very strong lineup around him for his main goal. Other than Sky (and their lineuo for Vuelta is hardly impressive) no team is deep enough to provide best support in two GTs a season

Of course, I even said the same thing a few days ago. However, I stated that I am used to his team being crap, and obviously I meant his team in all GTs, not just the Tour. He only finished 3 Tours in the last 6 years and in only 1 of those his team was actually strong, one of if not the best in the race. He finished 7 GTs since joining Saxo, and in all but one his team was mediocre at best.

I didn't blame the team managers, didn't blame the riders, I just innocently stated that I cannot be worried about his team being horrible next year because I'm used to him having hardly any team support in big races. I don't understand why you immediately became so defensive.

i do not have evidence of this but to me it was apparent that the Tinkov team assembled for the TDF 2016 was designed with the bold ambition of bringing back the three jerseys: Jaune for Alberto, vert for Sagan, and Maillot a pois for Majka. That kind of team can't be said to be strong for any of the named jerseys challengers but in some way must be accepted as a strong team yet not comparable to Sky single focus strength.

 

[Scarponi]

Re: Re:

What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.

So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?

Pretty much, since during all of those years Tour was his main (other than 2015 only) goal. So the team did deliver by putting very strong lineup around him for his main goal. Other than Sky (and their lineuo for Vuelta is hardly impressive) no team is deep enough to provide best support in two GTs a season

Of course, I even said the same thing a few days ago. However, I stated that I am used to his team being crap, and obviously I meant his team in all GTs, not just the Tour. He only finished 3 Tours in the last 6 years and in only 1 of those his team was actually strong, one of if not the best in the race. He finished 7 GTs since joining Saxo, and in all but one his team was mediocre at best.

I didn't blame the team managers, didn't blame the riders, I just innocently stated that I cannot be worried about his team being horrible next year because I'm used to him having hardly any team support in big races. I don't understand why you immediately became so defensive.

i do not have evidence of this but to me it was apparent that the Tinkov team assembled for the TDF 2016 was designed with the bold ambition of bringing back the three jerseys: Jaune for Alberto, vert for Sagan, and Maillot a pois for Majka. That kind of team can't be said to be strong for any of the named jerseys challengers but in some way must be accepted as a strong team yet not comparable to Sky single focus strength.

Exactly this whole Majka and Rojers look strong winning their little breakaways against inferior opposition ( both tinkoff guys have top 10 GC results vs breakaway guys with top 10s in continental races) they would not be able to set the pace non stop that people here call a "strong team". Majka plus rogers do not equal a singular Porte or Poels. Average team in 14 and 15 imo

 

[Scarponi]

Hell Majka this year lead out contador and only lasted a km and he has has a top three in a GT.Sky's train only cracked once in the dauphine. you can't say tinkoff is strong

 

[damian13ster]

In all of those years Tinkoff had 2-3 riders that were in top 15-20 when it comes to climbing in support of Contador. And there was Sagan. Hardly a weak team. There is no way you can justify a statement like that. In all of those years the team was stronger in relation to other teams than Contador compared to other GC contenders.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.

So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?

No, we shouldn't disregard them, obviously. But its about fairness and stating he has had *** teams all the time simply isn't true. I know you love Contador and he basically can do no wrong, but its factual that his support actually has been very good in those years mentioned in the biggest race & and his biggest goal for all 4 seasons. Don't we agree here?

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

This Vuelta is going to be one of the most important races of Contador's career.
He has to show he can beat Froome and Quintana in order to continue with dignity.
Both in terms of his self-confidence and status in new team.

Right on the money there Sir Fly. The others have nothing to lose really(Amongst the Big 3), Contador has everything to lose.
He NEEDS to win this GT.

 

[Jakub]

So the last time:
TdF teams, the support for Bertie rated
13-strong
14-good(perhaps, hopefully, probably)
15-superweak (highlight: ttt)
16-weak and unloyal

Strong team was Astana Giro15 or Sky Tour12 or practically any TdF except for 14.

 

[Jakub]

Re:

Hell Majka this year lead out contador and only lasted a km and he has has a top three in a GT.Sky's train only cracked once in the dauphine. you can't say tinkoff is strong

Majka is a wheelsucker type (no offense), he is able to suffer a lot, but he's a shitty domestique. Still he helped a lot that kilometer in Paris Nice. Shame it was the only time

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Hell Majka this year lead out contador and only lasted a km and he has has a top three in a GT.Sky's train only cracked once in the dauphine. you can't say tinkoff is strong

Majka is a wheelsucker type (no offense), he is able to suffer a lot, but he's a shitty domestique. Still he helped a lot that kilometer in Paris Nice. Shame it was the only time

??

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

Hell Majka this year lead out contador and only lasted a km and he has has a top three in a GT.Sky's train only cracked once in the dauphine. you can't say tinkoff is strong

Majka is a wheelsucker type (no offense), he is able to suffer a lot, but he's a shitty domestique. Still he helped a lot that kilometer in Paris Nice. Shame it was the only time

??

Last stage, he upped the pace and Dylan Thomas cracked. Maybe more 100m then 1km? I don't remeber it that good

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

So the last time:
TdF teams, the support for Bertie rated
13-strong
14-good(perhaps, hopefully, probably)
15-superweak (highlight: ttt)
16-weak and unloyal

Strong team was Astana Giro15 or Sky Tour12 or practically any TdF except for 14.

Oh stop it. 2015 wasn't super weak at all, neither was 2016. If Contador didn't crash and showed he was capable of winning, it was obviously all in for him with Kreuziger and Majka, make no mistake of that.

They also had the best team in the race in 2014.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Tinkoff for the Vuelta :

Daniele Bennati (Ita)
Manuele Boaro (Ita)
Alberto Contador (Spa)
Jesus Hernandez (Spa)
Michael Gogl (Oos)
Robert Kiserlovski (Kro)
Sergio Paulinho (Por)
Ivan Rovny (Rus)
Joeri Trofimov (Rus)

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/Vuelta/1.2743510

According to CN.com Trofimov is for the flat.

I kid you not!

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

Tinkoff for the Vuelta :

Daniele Bennati (Ita)
Manuele Boaro (Ita)
Alberto Contador (Spa)
Jesus Hernandez (Spa)
Michael Gogl (Oos)
Robert Kiserlovski (Kro)
Sergio Paulinho (Por)
Ivan Rovny (Rus)
Joeri Trofimov (Rus)

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/Vuelta/1.2743510

According to CN.com Trofimov is for the flat.

I kid you not!

And Rovny for high mountains.
Then Jesus for ITT and TTT and we are complete.

But seriously it's kinda kind from them considering Jurij gets dropped on every pathetic hill.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

So the last time:
TdF teams, the support for Bertie rated
13-strong
14-good(perhaps, hopefully, probably)
15-superweak (highlight: ttt)
16-weak and unloyal

Strong team was Astana Giro15 or Sky Tour12 or practically any TdF except for 14.

Oh stop it. 2015 wasn't super weak at all, neither was 2016. If Contador didn't crash and showed he was capable of winning, it was obviously all in for him with Kreuziger and Majka, make no mistake of that.

They also had the best team in the race in 2014.

I agree that his Tour team was plenty strong all those four years. I also think it's fair to question the whole team's dedication to Contador in some moments, but overall, it was very fine.