Not in a sport like cycling. Crashes happen. Many great riders besides AC have crashed before....it doesn't mean they were crap in that race.[/quote]
How many Tours did Migs crash out of?
How many Tours did Migs crash out of?
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?Valv.Piti said:What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.
LaFlorecita said:So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?Valv.Piti said:What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.
Of course, I even said the same thing a few days ago. However, I stated that I am used to his team being crap, and obviously I meant his team in all GTs, not just the Tour. He only finished 3 Tours in the last 6 years and in only 1 of those his team was actually strong, one of if not the best in the race. He finished 7 GTs since joining Saxo, and in all but one his team was mediocre at best.damian13ster said:LaFlorecita said:So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?Valv.Piti said:What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.
Pretty much, since during all of those years Tour was his main (other than 2015 only) goal. So the team did deliver by putting very strong lineup around him for his main goal. Other than Sky (and their lineuo for Vuelta is hardly impressive) no team is deep enough to provide best support in two GTs a season
Matteo. said:Trofimow, Kiser and Hernandez for the mountains.. meh. Anyway in Vueltas he never had strong teams for climbs, so that's ok.
i'm anxious to see him on Mirador de Ezero, 1.8km 13%
LaFlorecita said:Of course, I even said the same thing a few days ago. However, I stated that I am used to his team being crap, and obviously I meant his team in all GTs, not just the Tour. He only finished 3 Tours in the last 6 years and in only 1 of those his team was actually strong, one of if not the best in the race. He finished 7 GTs since joining Saxo, and in all but one his team was mediocre at best.damian13ster said:LaFlorecita said:So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?Valv.Piti said:What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.
Pretty much, since during all of those years Tour was his main (other than 2015 only) goal. So the team did deliver by putting very strong lineup around him for his main goal. Other than Sky (and their lineuo for Vuelta is hardly impressive) no team is deep enough to provide best support in two GTs a season
I didn't blame the team managers, didn't blame the riders, I just innocently stated that I cannot be worried about his team being horrible next year because I'm used to him having hardly any team support in big races. I don't understand why you immediately became so defensive.
Exactly this whole Majka and Rojers look strong winning their little breakaways against inferior opposition ( both tinkoff guys have top 10 GC results vs breakaway guys with top 10s in continental races) they would not be able to set the pace non stop that people here call a "strong team". Majka plus rogers do not equal a singular Porte or Poels. Average team in 14 and 15 imoDedelou said:LaFlorecita said:Of course, I even said the same thing a few days ago. However, I stated that I am used to his team being crap, and obviously I meant his team in all GTs, not just the Tour. He only finished 3 Tours in the last 6 years and in only 1 of those his team was actually strong, one of if not the best in the race. He finished 7 GTs since joining Saxo, and in all but one his team was mediocre at best.damian13ster said:LaFlorecita said:So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?Valv.Piti said:What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.
Pretty much, since during all of those years Tour was his main (other than 2015 only) goal. So the team did deliver by putting very strong lineup around him for his main goal. Other than Sky (and their lineuo for Vuelta is hardly impressive) no team is deep enough to provide best support in two GTs a season
I didn't blame the team managers, didn't blame the riders, I just innocently stated that I cannot be worried about his team being horrible next year because I'm used to him having hardly any team support in big races. I don't understand why you immediately became so defensive.
i do not have evidence of this but to me it was apparent that the Tinkov team assembled for the TDF 2016 was designed with the bold ambition of bringing back the three jerseys: Jaune for Alberto, vert for Sagan, and Maillot a pois for Majka. That kind of team can't be said to be strong for any of the named jerseys challengers but in some way must be accepted as a strong team yet not comparable to Sky single focus strength.
LaFlorecita said:So,we should disregard the crap support he had in all other GTs? Does team strength only matter in the Tour?Valv.Piti said:What is fair to say if the fact that he actually has had really good teams through 13-16 in TdF. He has just messed it up for whatever reason, but all teams were strong - 2014 the most, 2015 the least, probably.
sir fly said:This Vuelta is going to be one of the most important races of Contador's career.
He has to show he can beat Froome and Quintana in order to continue with dignity.
Both in terms of his self-confidence and status in new team.
Scarponi said:Hell Majka this year lead out contador and only lasted a km and he has has a top three in a GT.Sky's train only cracked once in the dauphine. you can't say tinkoff is strong
??Jakub said:Scarponi said:Hell Majka this year lead out contador and only lasted a km and he has has a top three in a GT.Sky's train only cracked once in the dauphine. you can't say tinkoff is strong
Majka is a wheelsucker type (no offense), he is able to suffer a lot, but he's a shitty domestique. Still he helped a lot that kilometer in Paris Nice. Shame it was the only time
LaFlorecita said:??Jakub said:Scarponi said:Hell Majka this year lead out contador and only lasted a km and he has has a top three in a GT.Sky's train only cracked once in the dauphine. you can't say tinkoff is strong
Majka is a wheelsucker type (no offense), he is able to suffer a lot, but he's a shitty domestique. Still he helped a lot that kilometer in Paris Nice. Shame it was the only time
Jakub said:So the last time:
TdF teams, the support for Bertie rated
13-strong
14-good(perhaps, hopefully, probably)
15-superweak (highlight: ttt)
16-weak and unloyal
Strong team was Astana Giro15 or Sky Tour12 or practically any TdF except for 14.
Lexman said:Tinkoff for the Vuelta :
Daniele Bennati (Ita)
Manuele Boaro (Ita)
Alberto Contador (Spa)
Jesus Hernandez (Spa)
Michael Gogl (Oos)
Robert Kiserlovski (Kro)
Sergio Paulinho (Por)
Ivan Rovny (Rus)
Joeri Trofimov (Rus)
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/Vuelta/1.2743510
Kwibus said:Lexman said:Tinkoff for the Vuelta :
Daniele Bennati (Ita)
Manuele Boaro (Ita)
Alberto Contador (Spa)
Jesus Hernandez (Spa)
Michael Gogl (Oos)
Robert Kiserlovski (Kro)
Sergio Paulinho (Por)
Ivan Rovny (Rus)
Joeri Trofimov (Rus)
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/Vuelta/1.2743510
According to CN.com Trofimov is for the flat.
I kid you not!
I agree that his Tour team was plenty strong all those four years. I also think it's fair to question the whole team's dedication to Contador in some moments, but overall, it was very fine.Valv.Piti said:Jakub said:So the last time:
TdF teams, the support for Bertie rated
13-strong
14-good(perhaps, hopefully, probably)
15-superweak (highlight: ttt)
16-weak and unloyal
Strong team was Astana Giro15 or Sky Tour12 or practically any TdF except for 14.
Oh stop it. 2015 wasn't super weak at all, neither was 2016. If Contador didn't crash and showed he was capable of winning, it was obviously all in for him with Kreuziger and Majka, make no mistake of that.
They also had the best team in the race in 2014.
You're right, he helped Alberto well there, I only remembered Kiserlovski and Trofimov.Jakub said:Last stage, he upped the pace and Dylan Thomas cracked. Maybe more 100m then 1km? I don't remeber it that good
In his current shape, that's where he is most useful.Kwibus said:Lexman said:Tinkoff for the Vuelta :
Daniele Bennati (Ita)
Manuele Boaro (Ita)
Alberto Contador (Spa)
Jesus Hernandez (Spa)
Michael Gogl (Oos)
Robert Kiserlovski (Kro)
Sergio Paulinho (Por)
Ivan Rovny (Rus)
Joeri Trofimov (Rus)
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/Vuelta/1.2743510
According to CN.com Trofimov is for the flat.
I kid you not!
Oh come on, in 2015 Sagan was good, Majka was okay and the rest was really bad, although Mick tried his hardest. 2016 doesn't even deserve to be commented on, a team that abandons its leader at the first hurdle is not a team. No matter how strong the individual riders may have been, they weren't a team. In 2014, all I can say is that individual strength =/= team strength, but yes, the team was quite okay, and it's a shame Alberto crashed out.Valv.Piti said:Jakub said:So the last time:
TdF teams, the support for Bertie rated
13-strong
14-good(perhaps, hopefully, probably)
15-superweak (highlight: ttt)
16-weak and unloyal
Strong team was Astana Giro15 or Sky Tour12 or practically any TdF except for 14.
Oh stop it. 2015 wasn't super weak at all, neither was 2016. If Contador didn't crash and showed he was capable of winning, it was obviously all in for him with Kreuziger and Majka, make no mistake of that.
They also had the best team in the race in 2014.