Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

There was also plenty of pre warning that Alberto would try an ambush given the history of the stage:

"In fact, the last ascent of the 14-kilometre Aramon-Formigal, previously climbed twice in the Vuelta a Espana, is only vaguely famous (for those looking hard for a reason) for being the Vuelta's first ever summit finish, back in 1972. That day, Spanish climbing legend Jose Manuel Fuente aka El Tarangu, already a double stage winner in the Tour de France and King of the Mountains in the Giro d'Italia, first shone in his home Grand Tour.

Earlier on the Formigal stage, Fuente went on a joint attack with Spain's Jose Grande, and then dropped Grande on the Monrepos climb. As he opened a huge gap on the field, Vuelta boss Luis Bergareche drove up behind him and pleaded with Fuente's sports director, Anton Barrutia, to tell him to stop because in Bergareche's opinion Fuente was not famous enough to warrant such a prestigious role as leading the Vuelta."

It was just another stage with the "shitty climbs".

: D

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

Hopefully it means he's getting stronger and will rock in the final week

 

[IMA]

Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

"The hidden message" is that he only knows to ride like what he is. A true champion.

"We stayed all together a long way. You have to bear in mind that a stage on the 15th day, after such a hard start, is naturally going to have a lot of riders who are strong," De la Cruz said. "At the same time, everybody had something to get out of it, Omar Fraile was going for the mountains, so was Elissonde, then Tinkoff, Movistar and Cannondale, we all had something to gain. It was easy to collaborate.

"At first, seeing the intensity of the first kilometres, I thought it was going to be very tough, we could end up paying at the end of it, it was impossible to go so fast. But it was equally crazy fast behind, they were losing riders at the first. From about halfway on, I thought, this is going to stick. Contador was really interested, and he commands a lot of respect. Whenever he talks, people tend to listen and act as a unit . He talked to absolutely everybody, insisting that it could work out, he was really the guy who sorted things out in the first part of the stage,


I guess some people will keep thinking Quintana and Brambilla made the break. Of course Alberto was a mere witness and he was just fighting for the podium.

 

[Lexman]

Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

very well possible

"Contador, having worked so hard early on, suffering from cramps,"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vuelta-a-espana-how-quintana-and-contador-tore-up-the-script/

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

"The hidden message" is that he only knows to ride like what he is. A true champion.

"We stayed all together a long way. You have to bear in mind that a stage on the 15th day, after such a hard start, is naturally going to have a lot of riders who are strong," De la Cruz said. "At the same time, everybody had something to get out of it, Omar Fraile was going for the mountains, so was Elissonde, then Tinkoff, Movistar and Cannondale, we all had something to gain. It was easy to collaborate.

"At first, seeing the intensity of the first kilometres, I thought it was going to be very tough, we could end up paying at the end of it, it was impossible to go so fast. But it was equally crazy fast behind, they were losing riders at the first. From about halfway on, I thought, this is going to stick. Contador was really interested, and he commands a lot of respect. Whenever he talks, people tend to listen and act as a unit . He talked to absolutely everybody, insisting that it could work out, he was really the guy who sorted things out in the first part of the stage,


I guess some people will keep thinking Quintana and Brambilla made the break. Of course Alberto was a mere witness and he was just fighting for the podium.

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I mean, that's not surprising, is it.

I don't know, I'd have expected Trofimov and Rovny to do more work than their leader

If they were as strong they probably would. Reading that article suggests that Contador was doing a lot of work specially during the period they made their gap. Last half he kept on doing his work, but not as much as he did in the first half. He made sure the gap got to 3 minutes atleast.

This also ends the discussion about Quintana beating Contador while both did their work. Sure both did their work, but Alberto apparently did more, that's also fine with me. Quintana also rode one hell of a race.

That article was a great read though. Hearing the other breakaway riders speak about how, what and when etc. Was really interesting. A lot of praise to Contador and well he isn't in his best form and having a rather poor Vuelta for his standards, but he came out and blew the race apart once again. This is the reason he has alot of fans.

 

[Flamin]

Probably just a bad translation. Alberto was the motor in establishing the break and was active on the first climb when the gap was still rather small, but obviously didn't work even half as much as his teammates did for the remainder of the stage. Would be plain silly if he had.

 

[LaFlorecita]

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas", aseguró el corredor.

His objective isn't the podium, he will try and see where he ends up.

 

[IMA]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

Actually there was someone who even claimed that Brambilla was who made the break, and that Quintana worked harder than Contador before the final climb.

Sorry if it bothered you. That wasn´t my intention. However i don´t agree with your last paragraph. I think Alberto did what he had to do, even if it costed him the stage win. He´s just used to ride like a champion, but his legs are not working well enough so far.

 

[IMA]

Re:

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas", aseguró el corredor.

His objective isn't the podium, he will try and see where he ends up.

Sorry in advance.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I mean, that's not surprising, is it.

I don't know, I'd have expected Trofimov and Rovny to do more work than their leader

I saw Trofimov and Rovny doing a lot of pulls along with Castroviejo.

That's when the camera was on. Don't know when the camera wasn't on them.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I mean, that's not surprising, is it.

I don't know, I'd have expected Trofimov and Rovny to do more work than their leader

I saw Trofimov and Rovny doing a lot of pulls along with Castroviejo.

That's when the camera was on. Don't know when the camera wasn't on them.

Ofcourse they did a lot of work.mit is my understanding that Alberto put in a lot of effort early on establishing a solid gap. When the gap was big enough he ofcourse reduced his workload.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

Actually there was someone who even claimed that Brambilla was who made the break, and that Quintana worked harder than Contador before the final climb.

Sorry if it bothered you. That wasn´t my intention. However i don´t agree with your last paragraph. I think Alberto did what he had to do, even if it costed him the stage win. He´s just used to ride like a champion, but his legs are not working well enough so far.

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

 

[peloton]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

I haven't seen anybody claiming that Contador wasn't the mastermind of the break, so stop bending other people's words.

Some people (including me) did challenge though wherher it was the best tactic for his GC ambition to to do so much work within the break once it got established and not push Movistar to work even more to tire doms and Quintana before the last climb.

Actually there was someone who even claimed that Brambilla was who made the break, and that Quintana worked harder than Contador before the final climb.

Sorry if it bothered you. That wasn´t my intention. However i don´t agree with your last paragraph. I think Alberto did what he had to do, even if it costed him the stage win. He´s just used to ride like a champion, but his legs are not working well enough so far.

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

Has be ever been on the podium (other than winning) in a GT? There's your answer...

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

Has be ever been on the podium (other than winning) in a GT? There's your answer...

That's a bit of a weak argument. He's only finished a GT twice as a GC contender without winning, and ended up 4th on one occasion and 5th on another. In both of those races, I don't think anyone could argue he was one of the top 3 riders; so it wasn't like he made the choice not to finish on the podium by risking everything - he just wasn't good enough to do so. He basically tried to and did indeed finish in the highest GC position he was capable of - no different to any other rider in that respect.

You could argue his stripped result in the 2011 Tour, he possibly had the shape to finish 3rd if he'd ridden more conservatively, but that is also by no means certain anyway. 2011 was a bit different anyway - he still felt like he was superman then. With the possible exception of 2014, he's been nowhere near that level since.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

very well possible

"Contador, having worked so hard early on, suffering from cramps,"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vuelta-a-espana-how-quintana-and-contador-tore-up-the-script/

He should have won but he worked too much initially

 

[LaFlorecita]

"It's true that until this year my success rate at the Vuelta was 100% and it now seems it will drop to 75%"

Very poor, Berto

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

Has be ever been on the podium (other than winning) in a GT? There's your answer...

That's a bit of a weak argument. He's only finished a GT twice as a GC contender without winning, and ended up 4th on one occasion and 5th on another. In both of those races, I don't think anyone could argue he was one of the top 3 riders; so it wasn't like he made the choice not to finish on the podium by risking everything - he just wasn't good enough to do so. He basically tried to and did indeed finish in the highest GC position he was capable of - no different to any other rider in that respect.

You could argue his stripped result in the 2011 Tour, he possibly had the shape to finish 3rd if he'd ridden more conservatively, but that is also by no means certain anyway. 2011 was a bit different anyway - he still felt like he was superman then. With the possible exception of 2014, he's been nowhere near that level since.

His epic attack on the Alpe d'Huez stage of the 2011 could be seen as a hail mary attempt at winning the race. It certainly altered the race immensely in that Andy Schleck had gone on his own long range attack on the previous stage and Contador's attack took advantage of that knowing Andy would potentially be calling on reserves that weren't there in trying to shadow Contador's attack. It brought Andy from euphoria to depression in short period of time. Contador's efforts failed in that Pierre Rolland and Sammy Sanchez reeled him in shortly before the finish with Rolland winning the stage and it didn't put Contador in the race lead nor on the podium but it did blow the race apart. Best case scenario was that he regained all the time he was trailing, snatched the leader's jersey and won the stage all while entertaining the masses with an epic attack that blew the race apart. He only was able to achieve the latter but one never knows what could happen unless they take that chance. Stranger things have happened.

The difference, at least in my eyes, is that how often do you see someone that is one of the top riders in the gc or top 10 for that matter, try an epic attack, risking their current position in hopes of making a major advance in the standings of the gc? Andy did it and Contador has done it multiple times in grand tours. They gave it a try to see what would happen. It is a major risk because if they are left out there to stew all alone as Armstrong did to Pantani, then if and when they are reeled in they could ultimately lose major time.

 

[Miburo]

5 stages left right? So my prediction of 5 stage wins is still possible

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

5 stages left right? So my prediction of 5 stage wins is still possible

He'll ride everyone out of the time limit tomorrow. Then he'll have a 4 stage victory parade

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

There were tactics to choose and he selected the one which paid off nicely in terms of podium play. The more risky (which could have failed miserably) tactict would've been to attack also Nairo, but I guess he did feel it is actually too risky. Anyway seeing the parcours in the last week, he is getting very short of chances to go for the win, which is the only thing he cares, right?

Has be ever been on the podium (other than winning) in a GT? There's your answer...

That's a bit of a weak argument. He's only finished a GT twice as a GC contender without winning, and ended up 4th on one occasion and 5th on another. In both of those races, I don't think anyone could argue he was one of the top 3 riders; so it wasn't like he made the choice not to finish on the podium by risking everything - he just wasn't good enough to do so. He basically tried to and did indeed finish in the highest GC position he was capable of - no different to any other rider in that respect.

You could argue his stripped result in the 2011 Tour, he possibly had the shape to finish 3rd if he'd ridden more conservatively, but that is also by no means certain anyway. 2011 was a bit different anyway - he still felt like he was superman then. With the possible exception of 2014, he's been nowhere near that level since.

His epic attack on the Alpe d'Huez stage of the 2011 could be seen as a hail mary attempt at winning the race. It certainly altered the race immensely in that Andy Schleck had gone on his own long range attack on the previous stage and Contador's attack took advantage of that knowing Andy would potentially be calling on reserves that weren't there in trying to shadow Contador's attack. It brought Andy from euphoria to depression in short period of time. Contador's efforts failed in that Pierre Rolland and Sammy Sanchez reeled him in shortly before the finish with Rolland winning the stage and it didn't put Contador in the race lead nor on the podium but it did blow the race apart. Best case scenario was that he regained all the time he was trailing, snatched the leader's jersey and won the stage all while entertaining the masses with an epic attack that blew the race apart. He only was able to achieve the latter but one never knows what could happen unless they take that chance. Stranger things have happened.

The difference, at least in my eyes, is that how often do you see someone that is one of the top riders in the gc or top 10 for that matter, try an epic attack, risking their current position in hopes of making a major advance in the standings of the gc? Andy did it and Contador has done it multiple times in grand tours. They gave it a try to see what would happen. It is a major risk because if they are left out there to stew all alone as Armstrong did to Pantani, then if and when they are reeled in they could ultimately lose major time.

I don't think Contador risked much with his attacks in the past. He's never risked a probable podium position to try to win. He's done those attacks either when he wasn't one of the best three riders in the race and so had nothing to lose. Or, as in 2012, when he was virtually guaranteed at least a podium, so again had little to lose by doing such an attack.

This Vuelta is a pretty unique scenario in his career. Because he's probably the 3rd/4th strongest rider in the race and is in with a genuine chance of a podium, but with almost no chance of 1st, barring crashes. And, quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium - hence the full co-operation with Movistar. In previous races he's pretty much always been either the best rider in the race, or in not good enough shape to make the podium. The long range attacks were showy, but not really risky.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium

hmmmm

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas"

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium

hmmmm

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas"

Actions speak louder than words. He's hardly known for telling the truth regarding his condition or tactical plans after all.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

So if Albero wouldn't have work so much, he would have won on Formigal. Is this the hidden message?

very well possible

"Contador, having worked so hard early on, suffering from cramps,"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/vuelta-a-espana-how-quintana-and-contador-tore-up-the-script/

He should have won but he worked too much initially

That's relative. No guarantee that he would win either (or if he didn't work, then the break won't stick. so catch 22). The fact was he did it to try to win it outright. In a rest day interview with Contador, he expected Froome to do something on the next 6 stage, and I think, he would be there to tag along. So whoever takes advantage for the next stage, Contador is looking forward to support and take advantage of it. I'm sure this time is trying to get time on Quintana. So somewhat Froome or Chavez gotta do something.

 

[LaFlorecita]

quite rightly,
he seems to be targetting the podium

hmmmm

"El objetivo no es el podio, es ganar, aunque está muy difícil. Nairo tiene un equipo potentisimo y tiene una diferencia muy grande. También hay corredores por delante de mí, pero voy a seguir dando todo lo que tengo en carrera y a ver cómo terminamos, pueden pasar mil cosas"

Actions speak louder than words. He's hardly known for telling the truth regarding his condition or tactical plans after all.

Oh come on. He needed as much time as possible on Froome, Chaves and Yates. All 3 were ahead of him and by quite some margin as well. It's not difficult: gain as much time as possible on the other challengers, try to gain time on Quintana another day. Focusing just on Quintana won't get him anywhere.