Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

"too steep for Contador"... unfortunately, he couldn't even follow Porte.
3 years ago he did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9uZ_ieLbEE

Still in March and the excuses are already being produced.

That was vs Geschke and King Jice Peraud was over half a minute faster on the Muro.

 

[Forever The Best]

What about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKYgllArzeA

The final climb that day:

 

[Scarponi]

So Contador feeling good on Random muritios in a 14 years career means the end of the world at the moment ? Cadel best him on one in 2011 so what

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

So Contador feeling good on Random muritios in a 14 years career means the end of the world at the moment ? Cadel best him on one in 2011 so what

Cadel is very good in short, steep finishes. He won Fleche Wallonne in 2010 and podiumed it in 2007.
Besides, Mur de Breatgne is not exactly a murito finish.

 

[Publicus]

he definitely wasn't super today, but i don't think there's much to be drawn from it regarding the Tour. But then again, no one really looked great imo

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

What about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKYgllArzeA

The final climb that day:

That was at Pais Vasco. Who knows how well he will perform there this year?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Just wait until tomorrow to draw conclusions about his current shape... and wait till Pais Vasco to draw conclusions about the TDF.

 

[Climber123]

Did he even try at the bottom of the murito? No

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Just wait until tomorrow to draw conclusions about his current shape... and wait till Pais Vasco to draw conclusions about the TDF.

Agreed. Tomorrow is the day of truth for his early season form. 2009 Contador would have struggled to stay with Simon Yates & Henao on a climb like this at the end of an easyish stage. Plus he put time into Ulissi and Barguil, and finished with or very close to Martin, Alaphilippe and Gallopin, who are all more or less specialists on finishes like this.. Not spectacular, but far from a disastrous performance.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

What about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKYgllArzeA

The final climb that day:

That was at Pais Vasco. Who knows how well he will perform there this year?

Mende 2007, Aia 2008, Mende 2010( x2, in both P-N and Tour), Mur de Huy 2010, the one I exampled above.
Also great rides in a bit less hard climbs such as Mur de Bretagne 2011, La Mauselaine 2014.
Also pretty good on Ezaro 2012 considering he came back from a ban.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Montée Jalabert is 3x as long as today's hill.
So what is your point? He's less explosive now than he was >3 years ago? Of course he is.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

Montée Jalabert is 3x as long as today's hill.
So what is your point? He's less explosive now than he was >3 years ago? Of course he is.

Aia 2008, Huy 2010, Ezaro 2012, La Mauselaine 2014, last year on Aia was also much better than this.
Yes, he is less explosive which is very bad for a rider who accelerates and opens a big gap in such a short time and keeps/increases till the finish.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

Just wait until tomorrow to draw conclusions about his current shape... and wait till Pais Vasco to draw conclusions about the TDF.

Agreed. Tomorrow is the day of truth for his early season form. 2009 Contador would have struggled to stay with Simon Yates & Henao on a climb like this at the end of an easyish stage. Plus he put time into Ulissi and Barguil, and finished with or very close to Martin, Alaphilippe and Gallopin, who are all more or less specialists on finishes like this.. Not spectacular, but far from a disastrous performance.

Ahahahaah what? A 2009 contador would have followed henao easily.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Montée Jalabert is 3x as long as today's hill.
So what is your point? He's less explosive now than he was >3 years ago? Of course he is.

Aia 2008, Huy 2010, Ezaro 2012, La Mauselaine 2014, last year on Aia was also much better than this.
Yes, he is less explosive which is very bad for a rider who accelerates and opens a big gap in such a short time and keeps/increases till the finish.

Today wasn't really much like any of those climbs though apart from maybe Huy. The others are all much harder and swing the advantage away from puncheurs towards proper climbers like Contador.

Contador doesn't need to be more explosive than riders like Martin or Henao for his main objectives of the year anyway. He's looking to compete with the likes of Froome and Quintana - to do that he needs to be stronger than them on long climbs and gradually wear them down over consecutive days. You can't really out punch sky, because they'll just let you go, ride tempo and reel you in as a team. The only way he can beat Froome is by staying within touching distance into the third week and hoping that his recovery is superior and he can press home an advantage in the final stages. The days are long gone of facing Evans or Schleck where they would try to follow every hard acceleration and put themselves too deep into the red.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

I wish people would stop comparing him to 2008/9/10/11 or whatever level, its like people believe he is never gonna get older and his form is gonna continue forever. Every race he enters there's always certain stages that are perfect for him and if he fails, there's always some excuse, but there's always the next stage that's perfect for him, then if he fails, there's always the such and such stage where he can/will gain time back or win the stage.

Tomorrow's stage is supposedly perfect for him to win and gain minutes on everyone (that's if he's at his 2009/10/11 or whatever level). If he fails, will people start to acknowledge that he's maybe on his way to his pension and not quite as good as he once was? He's been a great rider of his generation, just give him a bit of slack and enjoy him whilst he's still around and look forward to some of the younger, up and coming riders for the years ahead.

Suppose its too much to ask.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Just wait until tomorrow to draw conclusions about his current shape... and wait till Pais Vasco to draw conclusions about the TDF.

Agreed. Tomorrow is the day of truth for his early season form. 2009 Contador would have struggled to stay with Simon Yates & Henao on a climb like this at the end of an easyish stage. Plus he put time into Ulissi and Barguil, and finished with or very close to Martin, Alaphilippe and Gallopin, who are all more or less specialists on finishes like this.. Not spectacular, but far from a disastrous performance.

Ahahahaah what? A 2009 contador would have followed henao easily.

Erm... You think Henao would have been dropped by thirty riders, including a mini-peloton including David Millar, Sorensen and Seeldraeyers?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8o0zn_paris-nice-2009-etape-7_sport

And this was in the season of probably the strongest and most dominant Contador we've ever seen.

 

[dacooley]

probably portugal11 referred to the 2009 contador in verbier shape climbing up in a hypothetical 1,5km murito.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

l
Erm... You think Henao would have been dropped by thirty riders, including a mini-peloton including David Millar, Sorensen and Seeldraeyers?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8o0zn_paris-nice-2009-etape-7_sport

And this was in the season of probably the strongest and most dominant Contador we've ever seen.

Not a fair example. He lost almost 3 minutes that day. Most likely he suffered a hunger knock. Or are we supposed to believe he's stronger right now than he was in 2009?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

l
Erm... You think Henao would have been dropped by thirty riders, including a mini-peloton including David Millar, Sorensen and Seeldraeyers?

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8o0zn_paris-nice-2009-etape-7_sport

And this was in the season of probably the strongest and most dominant Contador we've ever seen.

Not a fair example. He lost almost 3 minutes that day. Most likely he suffered a hunger knock. Or are we supposed to believe he's stronger right now than he was in 2009?

Not at all, just suggesting that losing a handful of seconds to a load of specialist puncheurs, is hardly a sign of impending disaster. Considering in the year of probably the best Contador we've ever seen he completely blew up and lost minutes finishing in the same town!

Henao, Martin & Alaphilippe are a specialists on this kind of climb. I doubt Froome could stay with them, nor Quintana after a relatively easy stage, so I'm not sure why it matters too much that Contador can't either. If Contador is to win the race he was always going to have to do it in the TT and on the mountain - limiting his losses on these uphill sprint finishes. The disaster this week was losing so much time on a flat stage - which also suggests very little about how he'll go in the Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Just wait until tomorrow to draw conclusions about his current shape... and wait till Pais Vasco to draw conclusions about the TDF.

Agreed. Tomorrow is the day of truth for his early season form. 2009 Contador would have struggled to stay with Simon Yates & Henao on a climb like this at the end of an easyish stage. Plus he put time into Ulissi and Barguil, and finished with or very close to Martin, Alaphilippe and Gallopin, who are all more or less specialists on finishes like this.. Not spectacular, but far from a disastrous performance.

Ahahahaah what? A 2009 contador would have followed henao easily.

In top shape, 2009-style, he probably would have stayed with him or lost a few seconds given how hard the stage was ridden, yes. But not easy by no means.

 

[rick james]

Re:

Did he even try at the bottom of the murito? No

do you think he could have?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Not at all, just suggesting that losing a handful of seconds to a load of specialist puncheurs, is hardly a sign of impending disaster. Considering in the year of probably the best Contador we've ever seen he completely blew up and lost minutes finishing in the same town!

Henao, Martin & Alaphilippe are a specialists on this kind of climb. I doubt Froome could stay with them, nor Quintana after a relatively easy stage, so I'm not sure why it matters too much that Contador can't either. If Contador is to win the race he was always going to have to do it in the TT and on the mountain - limiting his losses on these uphill sprint finishes. The disaster this week was losing so much time on a flat stage - which also suggests very little about how he'll go in the Tour.

Right, got you. We agree in that case.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

Just wait until tomorrow to draw conclusions about his current shape... and wait till Pais Vasco to draw conclusions about the TDF.

Agreed. Tomorrow is the day of truth for his early season form. 2009 Contador would have struggled to stay with Simon Yates & Henao on a climb like this at the end of an easyish stage. Plus he put time into Ulissi and Barguil, and finished with or very close to Martin, Alaphilippe and Gallopin, who are all more or less specialists on finishes like this.. Not spectacular, but far from a disastrous performance.

Ahahahaah what? A 2009 contador would have followed henao easily.

In top shape, 2009-style, he probably would have stayed with him or lost a few seconds given how hard the stage was ridden, yes. But not easy by no means.

Even a 2010 contador was able to follow henao.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Montée Jalabert is 3x as long as today's hill.
So what is your point? He's less explosive now than he was >3 years ago? Of course he is.

Aia 2008, Huy 2010, Ezaro 2012, La Mauselaine 2014, last year on Aia was also much better than this.
Yes, he is less explosive which is very bad for a rider who accelerates and opens a big gap in such a short time and keeps/increases till the finish.

Today wasn't really much like any of those climbs though apart from maybe Huy. The others are all much harder and swing the advantage away from puncheurs towards proper climbers like Contador.

Contador doesn't need to be more explosive than riders like Martin or Henao for his main objectives of the year anyway. He's looking to compete with the likes of Froome and Quintana - to do that he needs to be stronger than them on long climbs and gradually wear them down over consecutive days. You can't really out punch sky, because they'll just let you go, ride tempo and reel you in as a team. The only way he can beat Froome is by staying within touching distance into the third week and hoping that his recovery is superior and he can press home an advantage in the final stages. The days are long gone of facing Evans or Schleck where they would try to follow every hard acceleration and put themselves too deep into the red.

More than just this because Froome has evolved as a rider. He needs to stay with Froome even when the sky train has shed off everyone else. He can't lose major time on the first big Froome attack of the Tour. Losing the smallest amount of time makes it so he has to be aggressive and attack from further out. He's got to reverse the role.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Wow, Degs working on the front today