Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

well, froome distancing bertie and valverde on clowney little gear was emphatic. from my perspective bertie decided to take it really easy after getting dropped. i can't restrain myself from thinking he looks quite heavy actually. his weight is far from optimal which is weird.

I have to agree. What perplexes me though is that as AC clearly found the right training program in 2014, the year during the Froome dominion he was most competative and arguably capable of matching him blow for blow at the Tour; why has that formula not since been duplicated?

Granted each year is a little bit different, though in theory at least one should be able to match pretty well what one has achieved the previous year. Yet Contador was undoubtedly less fit in 2015 and 2016 and eachof these years he seems to have kept on 1-1.5 kilos more than 2014.

Is it lack of discipline, drive? Why would someone of his caliber continue if either were wanting? Even the former domestique Porte has reached a higher state of fitness than the once captain. If age has indeed caught up with him, wouldn't it be better to retire? Contador has put everything into the Tour this year, but if he can't get ultra-lean and maintain watts, then he surely is merely deceiving himself if he thinks he can fight for victory in France in July (as the poster suggested if it's 85% vs. 85%). The problem for him is time now. He clearly needs to get leaner and maintain power to have any possibility to compete for victory at the Tour.

If, on the other hand, he can match the other Bigs on the next stages climbs, I won't write him off. Otherwise there is no other choice.

I think you should just go ahead and write him off. i suspect that Froome et al might as well.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Too complicated. The answer is simple: age is catching up.

No need for astrophysics. The guy has been declining over the last years and that is perfectly normal. He'll be 35 in December.
It's not as if he would be 2007-2011 for the entirety of his career. It's not as if he would be the one to beat in every GT. He was the brightest star for years, but that light has been fading. That happened with him as had happened with every other guy. No one can avoid decline unless retiring at his peak, like Nico Rosberg did.

the problem with all of this is that Valverde is in the peloton with him and performing at arguably the highest level of his career

So many things to say about this:
a) his level nowadays may be lower than the one he had 3 months ago.
b) who guarantees that his actual level is higher than his 2009's one (for example)?

Results? One thing is to win Vuelta a Andalucia and a couple more low-key stage races, another completely different is to win the Dauphine, where the majority of the big dogs will show up close to their best.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re:

So here's how Contador summed up things:

http://www.treksegafredo.com/news/dauphine-contador-satisfied-first-mountain-test

Make of it what you will

"My form right now, I think it is perfect," he answered when asked how he feels about his condition ahead of the Tour de France. "I think it is perfect; my condition cannot be better in this moment."

And then, in case there was any doubt, he repeated: "I think it's perfect."




Three times in three sentences, really? Who's he trying to convince?

Or is this one of Contador's idiosyncrasies? I've never noticed it before.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

So here's how Contador summed up things:

http://www.treksegafredo.com/news/dauphine-contador-satisfied-first-mountain-test

Make of it what you will

"My form right now, I think it is perfect," he answered when asked how he feels about his condition ahead of the Tour de France. "I think it is perfect; my condition cannot be better in this moment."

And then, in case there was any doubt, he repeated: "I think it's perfect."




Three times in three sentences, really? Who's he trying to convince?

Or is this one of Contador's idiosyncrasies? I've never noticed it before.

His interviews sounds 2013 stuff

 

[Gloin22]

Contador is like Theresa May. Everything is perfect. We need stability.

However I wouldn't take too much from this except that he has zero chance of winning against Froome as I said before. But 2nd is the new 1st

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Too complicated. The answer is simple: age is catching up.

No need for astrophysics. The guy has been declining over the last years and that is perfectly normal. He'll be 35 in December.
It's not as if he would be 2007-2011 for the entirety of his career. It's not as if he would be the one to beat in every GT. He was the brightest star for years, but that light has been fading. That happened with him as had happened with every other guy. No one can avoid decline unless retiring at his peak, like Nico Rosberg did.

the problem with all of this is that Valverde is in the peloton with him and performing at arguably the highest level of his career

I am confused, AC and Valverde were essentially equals today. What is the problem then?

That Valverde shouldn't be with him. Only Froome, Porte or Quintana!

Having said that I agree with Contador's approach. He should have done that before.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

well, froome distancing bertie and valverde on clowney little gear was emphatic. from my perspective bertie decided to take it really easy after getting dropped. i can't restrain myself from thinking he looks quite heavy actually. his weight is far from optimal which is weird.

I have to agree. What perplexes me though is that as AC clearly found the right training program in 2014, the year during the Froome dominion he was most competative and arguably capable of matching him blow for blow at the Tour; why has that formula not since been duplicated?

Granted each year is a little bit different, though in theory at least one should be able to match pretty well what one has achieved the previous year. Yet Contador was undoubtedly less fit in 2015 and 2016 and eachof these years he seems to have kept on 1-1.5 kilos more than 2014.

Is it lack of discipline, drive? Why would someone of his caliber continue if either were wanting? Even the former domestique Porte has reached a higher state of fitness than the once captain. If age has indeed caught up with him, wouldn't it be better to retire? Contador has put everything into the Tour this year, but if he can't get ultra-lean and maintain watts, then he surely is merely deceiving himself if he thinks he can fight for victory in France in July (as the poster suggested if it's 85% vs. 85%). The problem for him is time now. He clearly needs to get leaner and maintain power to have any possibility to compete for victory at the Tour.

If, on the other hand, he can match the other Bigs on the next stages climbs, I won't write him off. Otherwise there is no other choice.

It wasn't just Contador, it was most of Tinkoff. Riders like Majka had form they've never duplicated before or since.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I agree that, currently, Aru's ceiling is higher than Contador's.

I see it this way...

Form = Fitness - Fatigue

Training blocks of three weeks followed by a week of active recovery seem to be a generally accepted way to work on form. The recovery week is when the adaptation happens. Form takes a big leap after that week of recovery. Large efforts like overtraining or grand tours, while boosting fitness, also increase fatigue to the point where a week of rest is not adequate. More qualified posters can comment how this is reflected in the Training Stress Score (TSS) and other measures.

When measuring your own form against those of your rivals, (and realizing you are behind), you can always overtrain to boost your fitness to the point where you look impressive. Aru, Chavez, TJVG all come to mind. To prove they are relevant, they overtrain to stay with the best. They have flashes of brilliance, but then crash in the grand tours, as the effort needed to boost their fitness becomes an anchor in the last 10 days.

Based upon my interpretation of what Contador has said since December, he has realized that in past years, internal and external pressure to match Froome blow-by-blow has compelled him to overtrain. He has sacrificed overall form to try to boost his fitness to Froome levels.

By giving up on doing well at the Dauphine, Contador can make the race a part of one of his training blocks. That means he would want to keep his power in a range dictated by his training plan, as it is part of a bigger block of training. It would also mean that he hasn't had the active recovery necessary prior to the Dauphine to realize the benefits of his last training camp. Instead, he is likely to use the last 10 days prior to the Tour as his recovery so that he comes in fresh, but with a new adaptation from a long hard block of training.

Does that mean I think he is going to podium the Tour? Who knows. I think he is probably only at 85% today. If the others are at 90%+, I think it will be competitive. If he just got beaten by others also at 85%, then it could be a long month of July.

A very sensible post that gives us Contador fans hope. Thanks for now or we'll be cursing your name come July!

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Little known fact. AC hired Andy Schelck as his personal coach. A Andy like peak for the tour will happen

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re:

Let people bash Contador for his performance today, we'll see how things go in July. Once again, the only thing I hope for is no crashes.

Just sit in Degenkolb's wheel and he'll be allright.

 

[SeriousSam]

"After the descent, I lost some more seconds to Bardet and Valverde to the finish, but for me, I am very, very happy - when I look at the work that I have in my bag, it’s a very good performance. I hope that also in the next two days everyone attacks and makes a very hard race because I think this maybe can be good for July."

Not a very persuasive narrative he's spinning here to rationalise his inability to keep the pace. Seems a bit desperate

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

So here's how Contador summed up things:

http://www.treksegafredo.com/news/dauphine-contador-satisfied-first-mountain-test

Make of it what you will

"My form right now, I think it is perfect," he answered when asked how he feels about his condition ahead of the Tour de France. "I think it is perfect; my condition cannot be better in this moment."

And then, in case there was any doubt, he repeated: "I think it's perfect."




Three times in three sentences, really? Who's he trying to convince?

Or is this one of Contador's idiosyncrasies? I've never noticed it before.

without a transcript or audio, no way to tell if this is in response to multiple questions or dubious or incredulous looks from reporter(s). it all seems consistent with what he's said from the end of last year about his approach so i don't see a reason to doubt that he thinks everything is going as planned

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Little known fact. AC hired Andy Schelck as his personal coach. A Andy like peak for the tour will happen

More like the Slonge approach, a monster peak like 2014 Nibali wouldn't surprise me.

 

[lenric]

Re:

"After the descent, I lost some more seconds to Bardet and Valverde to the finish, but for me, I am very, very happy - when I look at the work that I have in my bag, it’s a very good performance. I hope that also in the next two days everyone attacks and makes a very hard race because I think this maybe can be good for July."

Not a very persuasive narrative he's spinning here to rationalise his inability to keep the pace. Seems a bit desperate

I'm also trying to grasp the rationality behind that quote.

 

[SeriousSam]

I think he's trying to paint a picture in which his foolish competitors tire themselves out in the Dauphine whilst he smartly preserves energy for when it counts.

 

[lenric]

Re:

I think he's trying to paint a picture in which his foolish competitors tire themselves out in the Dauphine whilst he smartly preserves energy for when it counts.

Yes, I got his thought. I just didn't get where is the rationality behind it, considering he even lost time to Valverde before today's summit.

 

[Red Rick]

No matter what is said or happens in races, we'll get to the same conclusions we want to come to anyway.

 

[rick james]

Re:

I think he's trying to paint a picture in which his foolish competitors tire themselves out in the Dauphine whilst he smartly preserves energy for when it counts.

LOL aye that's it

 

[Tonton]

Re:

No matter what is said or happens in races, we'll get to the same conclusions we want to come to anyway.

So true. We don't have a clue. All that matters is July. We'll get the answers in July. Today Bertie didn't attack, so in my view he did a very solid ride with Bardet and Valverde. He will attack on one of the two remaining stages though. If he doesn't, then I will scratch my head and doubt that Contador still has it.

 

[ad9898]

I'll just chip in with a nugget I was today. Contador says he's using this race as training. I'd believe him on this as I noticed he was riding with Valverde on the big ring. All the others including Valverde were on 36/39.

This is not the gear to be using on 10% grades if he was interested in staying with Froome/Porte.

I think we can be assured he'll be on top of his game come the Tour

 

[SeriousSam]

Ah but the glorious days of him gracefully dancing on the pedals are long gone. So often these days is he grinding away at a knee-destroying gear, his upper body flailing around wildly, his face a grimace of agony

 

[benzwire]

The one thing that gives me hope is his performance in the time trial. He did better than expected and I do think he is riding a measured, controlled effort on the climbs. I do think that he is 100% focused on the Tour, and he is using this race for training purposes. As everyone else says, we will know in July. I hope he stays healthy, stays upright, and stays focused on the Tour. I think he knows this is his last real chance at the Tour and his Dauphine result is not a priority. I know that I am cautiously optimistic. Not expecting too much come July, but hoping for a nice surprise from Contador.

 

[Cookster15]

I am in two minds about Contador. On one hand he would know he is aging so maybe holding back more than in the past to ensure he is in peak form for the Tour. He also rode a very strong TT. But on the other hand watching him climbing the Mont du Chat today he looked laboured and not his dancing, fluent climbing old self. Was this holding back or all he had? The jury is still out. Lets see what happens on the Alpe stage.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Wish he would target the Vuelta instead. He can still win there and would equal Heras' record with an overall victory.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I'll just chip in with a nugget I was today. Contador says he's using this race as training. I'd believe him on this as I noticed he was riding with Valverde on the big ring. All the others including Valverde were on 36/39.

This is not the gear to be using on 10% grades if he was interested in staying with Froome/Porte.

I think we can be assured he'll be on top of his game come the Tour

if Contador wasn't trying he would sit back and drop a few minutes. It was obvious he was trying looking at his face and body language. I never pay attention to what Contador says about his form.