Allen Lim

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Roland Rat said:
I think the thing is Armstrong has come to embody all that is wrong with cycling, and his scalp is needed for the symbolism more than anything else. Like when Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled. In the grand scheme of things, he's just one cyclist. But he's THE doper, the guy who dragged cycling right back to square 1 after it had a chance to renew itself post-Festina. The guy who has done more than anyone else to abuse the system, enforce Omerta and receive UCI protection while doing it. If they get Armstrong, then everyone else will have to take notice - no-one is safe any more. As long as Armstrong is out there, the others will think they're just playing the game. As long as Armstrong is out there, I can understand Landis's, Vino's etc bitterness at being the sacrificial lambs. Get Armstrong, we get closure on the EPO era.

Kimmage's description of him as the cancer was spot on. The others are simply metastases.

Not to mention that he does it so shamelessly. At least the others don't proclaim themselves as some kind of Jesus figure.

Absolutely right! Very well said!
 
Apr 11, 2009
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Does anyone know what's up with

Robbie Ventura: Ace PED Detective?

Oh ya, my feathas are gett'in ruffled.

We have video evidence of his coaching activities here:

http://www.zuguide.com/index.php#Ace-Ventura-Pet-Detective

1603ati.jpg


http://www.visionquestcoaching.com/coaches.php?contentId=835
 
May 11, 2009
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Parrot23 said:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

"The authorities, who are in the early stages of their investigation, are seeking to determine whether Armstrong, the owners and managers of his former cycling teams and his teammates conspired to defraud their sponsors by doping to improve their performances and garner more money and prizes, one of the people said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/sports/cycling/26cycling.html

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Allen Lim is also about to get a dearly desired "supporting actor" role, called an "accessory" role in the crim. biz, in the "highbrow" :rolleyes: mainstream entotainment media:

http://ca.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b183483_will_lance_armstrong_be_investigated.html

Will get to make a cameo appearance.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Interesting. However, the second if purely speculative and back up nothing with .... more of nothing.

The first also fails to address that the same investigation could be looking into Floyd's claims as fraudulant. We'll know when the report comes out, but I am troubled by a few things:

1. If Floyd was a federal witness, why go public until the detail and indictments are ready? That introduces severe credibility issues into anything he is saying, particularly given the timeline of their release. (Whether you agree or not, think of how it will play out in from of a jury with lawyers involved).

2. Having gone public, why is Floyd now deathly quiet on the subject? You don't just come out and accuse a dozen riders of massive conspiracy and then just disappear? WTF?

Allen Lim has publically denied the claims. There is nothing further that indicates there is anything other than Floyd's now deafening silence on teh issue.

Should we sanction him based on Floyd's word alone?
 
Mar 4, 2010
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gree0232 said:
Interesting. However, the second if purely speculative and back up nothing with .... more of nothing.

The first also fails to address that the same investigation could be looking into Floyd's claims as fraudulant. We'll know when the report comes out, but I am troubled by a few things:

1. If Floyd was a federal witness, why go public until the detail and indictments are ready? That introduces severe credibility issues into anything he is saying, particularly given the timeline of their release. (Whether you agree or not, think of how it will play out in from of a jury with lawyers involved).

2. Having gone public, why is Floyd now deathly quiet on the subject? You don't just come out and accuse a dozen riders of massive conspiracy and then just disappear? WTF?

Allen Lim has publically denied the claims. There is nothing further that indicates there is anything other than Floyd's now deafening silence on teh issue.

Should we sanction him based on Floyd's word alone?

1. cause he's still a bit of a hothead and didnt think it through, he wanted maximum impact

2. because the feds told him to zip his mouth
 
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Anonymous

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Kender said:
1. cause he's still a bit of a hothead and didnt think it through, he wanted maximum impact

2. because the feds told him to zip his mouth

Hey man, gree0232 is a ranger Iraqi war killer conspiracy breaker french police helper lawyer. Don't question his knowledge of Federal investigations...while, I bet he also has a Junior G-Man Detective Badge too, and he probably is helping congress investigate BP which is exactly like every conspiracy investigation ever investigated. You don't question a man like that!:rolleyes:
 
Jul 2, 2009
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gree0232 said:
Interesting. However, the second if purely speculative and back up nothing with .... more of nothing.

The first also fails to address that the same investigation could be looking into Floyd's claims as fraudulant. We'll know when the report comes out, but I am troubled by a few things:

1. If Floyd was a federal witness, why go public until the detail and indictments are ready? That introduces severe credibility issues into anything he is saying, particularly given the timeline of their release. (Whether you agree or not, think of how it will play out in from of a jury with lawyers involved).

2. Having gone public, why is Floyd now deathly quiet on the subject? You don't just come out and accuse a dozen riders of massive conspiracy and then just disappear? WTF?

Allen Lim has publically denied the claims. There is nothing further that indicates there is anything other than Floyd's now deafening silence on teh issue.

Should we sanction him based on Floyd's word alone?

Good points.

They are using Floyd to start the process. Phone call made. Text messages sent. IM's recorded. No one wants to communicate. No one wants a phone call/message/meeting. The silence is waiting for the knock on the door. Armstrong immediately flew out of the country. At least that is what his twitter account said.

I still cannot shake the feeling that they used/using Floyd in the setup, collecting data and confirming suspicions.

To come to a conclusion as to what is going to happen is nutty. I am liking the news/facts that we are typing about.

Big news story tomorrow eh !

What else does Floyd have ? No idea. We'll see. The media has switched hats
 
Apr 11, 2009
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Looks like GeeWhiz went back to Planet Pharmstrong HQ for some guidance.

You still haven't answered the key financial (ah hum, cough, cough, splutter) question yet: how much are you being paid to troll?

In any event, we have smok'in documentary evidence of Lim and Ace Ventura caught in the act, which you haven't yet addressed:

http://www.zuguide.com/index.php#Ace-Ventura-Pet-Detective

*I'm working on the Landis for President campaign*


gree0232 said:
Interesting. However, the second if purely speculative and back up nothing with .... more of nothing.

The first also fails to address that the same investigation could be looking into Floyd's claims as fraudulant. We'll know when the report comes out, but I am troubled by a few things:

1. If Floyd was a federal witness, why go public until the detail and indictments are ready? That introduces severe credibility issues into anything he is saying, particularly given the timeline of their release. (Whether you agree or not, think of how it will play out in from of a jury with lawyers involved).

2. Having gone public, why is Floyd now deathly quiet on the subject? You don't just come out and accuse a dozen riders of massive conspiracy and then just disappear? WTF?

Allen Lim has publically denied the claims. There is nothing further that indicates there is anything other than Floyd's now deafening silence on teh issue.

Should we sanction him based on Floyd's word alone?
 
Jul 2, 2009
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I wonder why Pat immediately went to Tour of Italy and spoke with Matt White ?

allen lim. had to mention as to stay on topic :D
 
Feb 21, 2010
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gree0232 said:
Interesting. However, the second if purely speculative and back up nothing with .... more of nothing.

The first also fails to address that the same investigation could be looking into Floyd's claims as fraudulant. We'll know when the report comes out, but I am troubled by a few things:

1. If Floyd was a federal witness, why go public until the detail and indictments are ready? That introduces severe credibility issues into anything he is saying, particularly given the timeline of their release. (Whether you agree or not, think of how it will play out in from of a jury with lawyers involved).

2. Having gone public, why is Floyd now deathly quiet on the subject? You don't just come out and accuse a dozen riders of massive conspiracy and then just disappear? WTF?

Allen Lim has publically denied the claims. There is nothing further that indicates there is anything other than Floyd's now deafening silence on teh issue.

Should we sanction him based on Floyd's word alone?

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are "good" questions, more than they are "natural" questions.

I think you are not exercising enough patience to find out the "why's?".

This will not be some spectacular fireworks show.

So you know, I have some extended family in the US. One of my relatives here works for the US State Dept., and has spent a few years in Iraq, and then in Afghanistan, working for Paul Bremer and Petraeus during Operation Rule of Law, setting up provisional govt structure and initiating the first set of open elections.

Unlike McCarthy, when he handed the Japanese the US Constitution and said, "Here, use this, we'll be back in two years to review your amendments", the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have several parallels to cycling's struggle with doping.

As it relates to Mr. Landis' accusations and confessional, this will take time to get ramped up. Smirking about the initial "issues" you have only tells me you simply don't get (either ignorance or fan-boy loyalty) what is happening.

Landis' story, plus much more detail, will be corroborated. Stonewalling the Feds will do nothing. Not like they are going to throw in the towel and call off the dogs should Levi clam up and claim issues in recollection. Their powers and leverage are simply too great for this.

Whether now, or down the road, the public will come to understand the fraud of Lance. It will be a tangible thing and his story will forever be associated with cycling. Bad for America, bad for sport and cycling and especially bad for Armstrong, Stapleton and the rest of the perps.

7 asterisk.
 
Colm.Murphy said:
Whether now, or down the road, the public will come to understand the fraud of Lance. It will be a tangible thing and his story will forever be associated with cycling. Bad for America, bad for sport and cycling and especially bad for Armstrong, Stapleton and the rest of the perps.

7 asterisk.

I think this is the main point that will come out of all of this hullabaloo. The longer a lie is left unchallenged the more damage it does. This Armstrong lie/myth was allowed to stand (for the most part) for the better part of 11 years and if this investigation does conclusively brand it as fraud the sport of cycling is going to very badly tarnished. This makes Festina and Puerto combined look like a joke.

As usual cycling will the red-headed stepchild that takes the brunt of the beating for sports in general but it's not like the sport didn't bring it upon itself. A pity.

On the bright side we had our nicest weather of the year today in the Bay Area and I did have an excellent ride. ;)
 
The sad thing is that even if Armstrong goes down, the real fraudsters will walk away scott free and richer than ever. The money that Armstrong has made is a pittance compared to the corporate profits that are based on a lie. Armstrong is just the face of a massive corporate fraud that has enriched companies from Versus to Trek to Nike. Those companies have to know that they have been backing a doper. Versus has their announcers defending Armstrong and attacking FLandis' credibility. That is not a coincidence. It is good for the bottom line if the rubes continue to believe.
 
gree0232 said:
I am troubled by a few things:

1. If Floyd was a federal witness, why go public until the detail and indictments are ready? That introduces severe credibility issues into anything he is saying, particularly given the timeline of their release. (Whether you agree or not, think of how it will play out in from of a jury with lawyers involved).

2. Having gone public, why is Floyd now deathly quiet on the subject? You don't just come out and accuse a dozen riders of massive conspiracy and then just disappear? WTF?

Allen Lim has publically denied the claims. There is nothing further that indicates there is anything other than Floyd's now deafening silence on teh issue.

Should we sanction him based on Floyd's word alone?

1. Floyd didn't go public, the emails were leaked by someone either at USA Cycling or otherwise a potential target of the investigation. The point of doing so was to tip off others that an investigation was afoot.

2. See #1. More to the point, he intimated in the leaked emails that he has more information. There is no point tipping off the potential targets as to the information that may be used against them. So, you shouldn't hear from Floyd any more, any time soon.

3. As regards Allen Lim, his public denial was . . . laughable. He lacks your intestinal fortitude to maintain the fiction. Confronted with the evidence, he will eventually (and relatively quickly) fold.
 
gree0232 said:
So either EVERYONE is lying but Floyd, or .... you tell me.

How about: they are ALL lying, and we'll see where the dust settles, perhaps in a cleanup, perhaps in a coverup.

ALL includes riders, DS's, teams, and all the alphabets, starting with the UCI.

-dB
 
May 15, 2010
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Publicus said:
1. Floyd didn't go public, the emails were leaked by someone either at USA Cycling or otherwise a potential target of the investigation. The point of doing so was to tip off others that an investigation was afoot.

2. See #1. More to the point, he intimated in the leaked emails that he has more information. There is no point tipping off the potential targets as to the information that may be used against them. So, you shouldn't hear from Floyd any more, any time soon.

3. As regards Allen Lim, his public denial was . . . laughable. He lacks your intestinal fortitude to maintain the fiction. Confronted with the evidence, he will eventually (and relatively quickly) fold.


1. thanks for the clarification. Citation please.
2. The person you are responding to sounds more annoyed that Floyd isn't tipping his hand and making it easier for Fraud Strongarm to start getting all parties to get their stories straight before the Feds come asking questions.
3. He will fold quickly, ....you hope? you anticipate? you believe based on what? You may be right, I just have no other idea why to expect that to be the case except for your confidence. Explain why. That bicycling.com video of him was just sad.

He suffers from the worst quality of a man trying to tell a lie: He is essentially honest by nature and doing something he is uncomfortable doing. (as opposed to his bosses who understand their success is predicated upon lying while appearing to be telling the god's honest truth)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
dbrower said:
How about: they are ALL lying, and we'll see where the dust settles, perhaps in a cleanup, perhaps in a coverup.

ALL includes riders, DS's, teams, and all the alphabets, starting with the UCI.

-dB

I never thought we would agree on anything, but I stand corrected. By the way, you coming here and opening yourself to criticism of your previous time defending Landis shows more character than most people formerly involved in defending him on various forums. That takes a real man, and I have a lot of respect for your honesty.
 
gree0232 said:
Do either of you two knuckleheads have anything relevant?

Have either of you two ever served in combat? Do either of you to realize how childish and immature it is to attack other's service in the childish hope that such immature antics will give you even a shread of credibility?

Your statements are dishonorable and quite frankly pathetic.

Please share with us what you do for a living, and I will happily measure myself up against two coward who can do nothing but hide behind a computer screen. Truly pathetic.

Excuse me, make that three.

I'm sorry about the PTSD.
 
Thoughtforfood said:
I never thought we would agree on anything, but I stand corrected. By the way, you coming here and opening yourself to criticism of your previous time defending Landis shows more character than most people formerly involved in defending him on various forums. That takes a real man, and I have a lot of respect for your honesty.

I have to agree with you TFF, a lot of people simply can't admit when they were wrong, so big props to Brower on that score.
 
Sticking with the topic at hand...

Lim is going to have some real tough questions to answer. He said at the TOC he never saw any doping in cycling, and wouldn't have anything to do with a rider or team that doped, period.

Lim was either part of the program. Or, he was somehow ignorant to what had to have been some suspect numbers in power output and profile analysis by Landis (and other riders).

Read what Lim had to say after Stage 17 at the 2006 Tour here.

Somehow these numbers he lists didn't raise a single red flag to him? Somehow, with all the products Landis took that year, Lim didn't suspect a single thing, at all? Not one?

I suppose all that is possible. But remember, this isn't some junior trainer. Lim has Ph.D. in integrative physiology and did undergrad studies in exercise science, plus has extensive experience as a coach.

Not one single hint of doping Allen? Really?
 
Here's another link. An interview with Lim in 2005. This part really stands out:

"In only a few days of brainstorming, testing, training diary analysis, and planning I've come to realize that there are few people who understand the Tour and professional racing like Floyd."

I take this to mean that Floyd kept two diaries according to Lim? One that he gave to Lim that was so detailed Lim believed it to be real, and of a clean cyclist. And another, the extensive one with all the doping information Floyd is apparently sharing with USADA, that Lim must now either claim he knew nothing about, and he was so incompetent that he didn't suspect a thing while looking at the one Floyd gave him and comparing it to Floyd's power and blood analysis? Or, that that somehow Landis actually was clean (and now lying about doping) and able to perfectly mesh all this together and create a forged doping diary to give to USADA to smear Lance, JB, Lim and others.

And somehow during this time. Lim, with all his background and knowledge, he didn't suspect a single thing?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Yeah it beggars belief. Lim was a very good junior cyclist, started a women's team, coached at the Olympic Training Center, worked with another domestic team...the guy has extensive insider experience. Obviously his naive comments about the subject had people calling him insincere long before Floyd went public with his bombshell.
 
Feb 21, 2010
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The reason Lim is stammering and sputtering is because he is guilty of assisting Landis with his self-administered program.

The reason he is should be worried is that he went on the public record and explained how betrayed he was by Landis and how hurt he was.

The reason he had a job waiting with Garmin was but for some unknown mistake, or truly the errors of the LNDD, Landis doped for years with no issues and won the TdF.

Surely Allen Lim is not responsible for the mistake in having Landis go pos via IRMS for synthetic T?

Now, that would be the twist of all twists...
 
May 11, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Sticking with the topic at hand...

Lim is going to have some real tough questions to answer. He said at the TOC he never saw any doping in cycling, and wouldn't have anything to do with a rider or team that doped, period.

Lim was either part of the program. Or, he was somehow ignorant to what had to have been some suspect numbers in power output and profile analysis by Landis (and other riders).

Read what Lim had to say after Stage 17 at the 2006 Tour here.

Somehow these numbers he lists didn't raise a single red flag to him? Somehow, with all the products Landis took that year, Lim didn't suspect a single thing, at all? Not one?

I suppose all that is possible. But remember, this isn't some junior trainer. Lim has Ph.D. in integrative physiology and did undergrad studies in exercise science, plus has extensive experience as a coach.

Not one single hint of doping Allen? Really?

Let's honestly take a look at what Floyd said and see if it would raise a red flag.

Floyd has stated that he was deliberately taking micro doses of EPO with blood transfusions to further dilute the EPO and make it undetectable in order to game the system. The name of the game that Floyd detailed was to make the doping difficult to detect.

Additionally, Floyd did not JUST accuse Alan Lim, he accussed the BMC management of organized, systemic doping. We can assume then that this effort involved some sort of monitoring to further reduce detection of doping products.

Then there is the reality of what would happen with Floyd and Dr. Lim if something popped up that looked suspicious. He would have asked, and Floyd would have vehemently assured him that there was no dope. It is what he did for the previous four years.

We can also look at Dave Z (another accussed) who was talking about Floyd going up and down all day and training his **** off constanty. Dr. Lim saw the work being put in, he saw the data from the power tap and other devices and deliberately planned efforts to further strengthen critical abilities.

Is it such a hard stretch to think that hard work and target training actually produce results?
 
Feb 21, 2010
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gree0232 said:
Let's honestly take a look at what Floyd said and see if it would raise a red flag.

Floyd has stated that he was deliberately taking micro doses of EPO with blood transfusions to further dilute the EPO and make it undetectable in order to game the system. The name of the game that Floyd detailed was to make the doping difficult to detect.

Additionally, Floyd did not JUST accuse Alan Lim, he accussed the BMC management of organized, systemic doping. We can assume then that this effort involved some sort of monitoring to further reduce detection of doping products.

Then there is the reality of what would happen with Floyd and Dr. Lim if something popped up that looked suspicious. He would have asked, and Floyd would have vehemently assured him that there was no dope. It is what he did for the previous four years.

We can also look at Dave Z (another accussed) who was talking about Floyd going up and down all day and training his **** off constanty. Dr. Lim saw the work being put in, he saw the data from the power tap and other devices and deliberately planned efforts to further strengthen critical abilities.

Is it such a hard stretch to think that hard work and target training actually produce results?

I think you are being intentionally disingenuous in your question above.

I do not think anyone is questioning Landis' work ethic or dedication to training. No matter the dope, you must do the work.

The central question is whether in accusing Phonak mgmt of being aware and funding his doping exploits, would Allen Lim be on the "outside" of the knowledge, given he was so integral to Landis' preparation for the Tour in 2006?

If he was looking at training diaries, that now are claimed to detail his doping program with coded info, and was with Landis day-to-day, either he is not very observant (not likely), was not trusted enough to include him within the circle, or is maintaining his innocence to keep his job.

Self-preservation is a base instinct.
 
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