Are you a Vegetarian?

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marathon marke said:
Thanks, Tapeworm, but I just thought since you are knowledgeable on this subject, you could provide some examples.

Yes, that's something I've been aware of for some time now. I'm referring to examples of plants that you initially brought up, those that require the seeds to actually be digested.

Thanks.

Check out the Cassowary.... from wikipedia below

"Cassowaries feed on the fruits of several hundred rainforest species and usually pass viable seeds in large dense scats. They are known to disperse seeds over distances greater than a kilometre, and thus play an important role in the ecosystem. Germination rates for seeds of the rare Australian rainforest tree Ryparosa were found to be much higher after passing through a cassowary's gut (92% versus 4%)."
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Polyarmour said:
In this statement and others I have read from you it seems you are equating the life of a plant with the life of an animal. That is you seem to be saying there is no moral difference between killing a plant or killing an animal? Correct me if I have you wrong here.


I said something has to die for us to eat. Is a plant equal to an animal .... or to us? Yes, why not. Just because a plant doesn't look like us doesn't mean it is any less in value. This is one of the traps of the mind though isn't it ..... quantifying life. We compare humans to other forms of life because we are horribly afraid of death and want to make ourselves feel better.... we want to be little kings of our universe(between the ears). . . and we'll kill(physically or emotionally) anyone and anything that gets in our way. Humans call this "morality".

Eat what agrees with your body. Be content with your choices. All too often we let our minds tell our bodies what we need, when our bodies know better.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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There is a whole sub branch of vegan/vegetarians who espouse this very thinking, that nothing must die for us to survive. So depending on the school of thought fruit, seeds and nuts that would otherwise "fall" are fine, milk, eggs (unfertilised of course) are also good, as they don't kill/hurt the animal.

Far too much work/effort for me but if you are having an ethical dilema perhaps...
 
Tapeworm said:
There is a whole sub branch of vegan/vegetarians who espouse this very thinking, that nothing must die for us to survive. So depending on the school of thought fruit, seeds and nuts that would otherwise "fall" are fine, milk, eggs (unfertilised of course) are also good, as they don't kill/hurt the animal.

Far too much work/effort for me but if you are having an ethical dilema perhaps...

But I don't think that is where Lost in Time is coming from as he has previously stated that he eats meat. He isn't brooking the vegan argument. It's the inverse vegetarian argument, ie, if you eat vegetables, you can't complain about him eating meat because in both cases something had to die. Personally I don't think meat eaters need to justify anything. However equating the lives of animals with plants as a means of rationilizing your diet choices is somewhat ....bizarre (to most people).
 
Jul 16, 2009
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Ok ... just had a caeser salad for lunch and feel remarkably fresh and "lighter" .. if that makes sense ... certainly better than when I had a steak the night before last when I felt lethargic and a bit sleepy after ... WTF ... may be something in this guys ????!!!!!!!?????:confused::confused:
 
Mar 19, 2009
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All life deserves respect ..... weather it's animal, vegetable or mineral . Killing animals is harder for some because they remind us of ourselves. They have those eyes looking straight at you ..... they scream ..... they fight .... all just like us. No one wants to die.

Plants and minerals ....... well . . . . most of are not so in tune to to them. They are as "alive" as any other atom in the universe , just in ways we are not capable of recognizing at this time.

This is where us humans are so ignorant. We think we're in charge of the universe. All one needs to do is be eating your dinner in your home and have a tornado rip the roof off. Tell me who's in charge? Take a look at the marvels of space, with all the destruction of planets and stars that makes our might night sky so utterly beautiful.

Polyarmour is correct ..... I don't think one can complain about meat eating when one eats vegetables that have also died. You can complain of course, and many do .... it's just the pot calling the kettle black.

However .... intent needs to be measured. There are many cultures where the killing of an animal for food is what we in the West would call a religious ceremony. They recognize the paradox of life, that something must die for them to survive. Most of our meat in the US at least, is raised and killed like a machine. Devoid of any respect for the life of the animals or themselves. Few are willing to raise and kill their own animals for meat. I suspect even fewer respect the cycle of life and death.

Look at how Native Americans used every part of the Buffalo for their survival. They used the hide, the bones and every other body part for something useful. Then came the white man and his ruthless ways ..... just killing off the Buffalo's for their meat, but not using the rest of the carcass. No respect.


About the tree video posted here ..... while I may not understand their grief, I do respect them for their human-ness. We all have our issues. While we may make fun of people crying over fallen trees, we need to look no further than our own mirrors to see how easily we are upset. How easily do we get angry over the smallest of things? How easily are our days ruined because we think something did us wrong? Our ideas of how things should, could and would be are so fragile, literally anything can come along and knock us off our self-crowned temple. The ones that are not able to recognize this, they are the most brutal, ignorant and cruel persons to themselves and everyone around them.

We could all use some respect for what we eat I suppose. .... whatever that food may be. The division between meat-eaters and non meat-eaters is downright silly. It's no different than any other feud, and rooted in ignorance. No one really wants to hear that . . . . because it sucks have your own stuff thrown back at you. So we attack ..... each other .... ourselves. Yeah ..... we're all in the same boat..... if we spent as much time cleaning up our own stuff as we do throwing it at others , maybe we'd ALL have a better life. Easy to say though..... not so simple.


On a lighter note ...... I'm diggin' melons this summer. Watermelons especially. I can't believe how much energy I get from them. I'm going through one large melon every 2 or 3 days. I eat the sweetest red part, then juice the rest down to the white part, getting about a gallon of juice. It's one of the few foods I can eat a stomach full before riding and have gastric upset. I only wish I could take it riding.
 
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Anonymous

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Verganism is NOT a diet. It is an ethical philosophy which disallows harming living animals. This is close to the Hindu concept of ahimsa. The most obvious implications for ahimsa / veganism are in the area of diet.

Everyone, please refrain from posting while drunk, stoned or high on life. The amount of tedious stupidity should then subside.
 
Jun 29, 2010
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brewerjeff said:
Verganism is NOT a diet. It is an ethical philosophy which disallows harming living animals. This is close to the Hindu concept of ahimsa. The most obvious implications for ahimsa / veganism are in the area of diet.

Everyone, please refrain from posting while drunk, stoned or high on life. The amount of tedious stupidity should then subside.

Okay now I'm confused about what you mean by 'verganism'? I can only assume that ethically dairy products are OK and it is different to what vegans believe :confused:
 
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Anonymous

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end of confusion

2beeDammed said:
Okay now I'm confused about what you mean by 'verganism'? I can only assume that ethically dairy products are OK and it is different to what vegans believe :confused:

The question is moot. There are no ethically (produced) dairy products.

Again, veganism is not a diet. It does not allow use of leather (non food) it does not allow silk (non food). Connect the dots. Confusion ends.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Define harmful? There's a can of worms right there.

They say not to harm animals, yet we harm ourselves and each other every day with physical, emotional and spiritual violence.

As we humans are living unconscious lives(with few exceptions). . . . this violence continues day after day, year after year . . .century after century. We've gone nowhere.

To truly not harm another requires profound consciousness. Few if any obtain this.

This means for us .. . . vege-ism is lip service.

But hey . . .maybe this is why we're here .. . to learn . . .to grow. . to gradually awaken. We are not perfect , nor will we ever be. If we were already fully awakened .... we probably would need to be here.
 
May 31, 2010
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"The vast majority of people in the US don't grow food, let alone hunt and gather it. We have no way to judge how much death is embodied in a serving of salad, a bowl of fruit, a plate of beef. We live in urban environments, in the last whispers of forests, thousands of miles removed from devastated rivers, prairies, wetlands, and the millions of creatures who died for our dinners. We don't even know what questions to ask to find out."

-- Lierre Keith, The Vegetarian Myth

Anyone claiming moral, social, or health superiority from a vegetarian diet should read this book.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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Fieldsprint said:
"blah, blah, blah."

-- Lierre Keith, The Vegetarian Myth

Anyone claiming moral, social, or health superiority from a vegetarian diet should read this book.

Since it takes about 12 kcal of plant food to make 1 kcal of food from animals. And modern agriculture uses a lot of oil to produce even plant-based foods, so affordable animal products rely on cheap energy. So of course there can be major efficiency gains with vegetarianism.

Additionally, if one were to plot longevity vs. consumption of certain food groups, legumes would be top. Increasing consumption of fish and other meat, and animal reproductive secretions (eggs and milk), are negatively correlated with longevity.

Doesn't Lierre Keith advocate abandoning all agriculture? How many people could the planet support with hunting and gathering as the only source of food? 100,000,000? What does she advocate doing with the other 7 billion, gas chambers, watch them starve to death?

Also, do you think that people would like living in mud-huts and seeing their children die in a primitivist "utopia" because antibiotics, and other technologies, are considered tools of environmental destruction and feminist oppression, or whatever.

People like Keith (and other primitivism fellow-travellers) are not sources of wisdom, they're a bunch of technophobic fundies trying to force their idiocy on others. As she points out in her quote, she doesn't even know what questions to ask. Fortunately, there are smarter people that do.
 
ihavenolimbs said:
People like Keith (and other primitivism fellow-travellers) are not sources of wisdom, they're a bunch of technophobic fundies trying to force their idiocy on others. As she points out in her quote, she doesn't even know what questions to ask. Fortunately, there are smarter people that do.

Lierre Keith attacks vegetarians but really her gripe is with overpopulation. She can't see the woods for the trees?

Given that overpopulation is a fact, vegetarianism is the most energy efficient and land efficient way to deal with it.

The population issue, well that's another problem entirely.
 
Fieldsprint said:
-- Lierre Keith, The Vegetarian Myth

Anyone claiming moral, social, or health superiority from a vegetarian diet should read this book.

Are you suggesting there are no moral, social or health advantages to be had in a vegetarian diet? If so what diet would you recommend?
 
May 5, 2010
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Polyarmour said:
Are you suggesting there are no moral, social or health advantages to be had in a vegetarian diet? If so what diet would you recommend?

Beer and wine.

However, I have noticed that after a football party (American football) with a lot of beer my cycling performance the next day is somewhat pitiful. After any alcohol my sweat level the next day drops precipitously. I assume my body is trying to rehydrate the dehydration from the alcohol.

har har
 
Jul 17, 2009
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I was hoping to be informed when I saw this thread.


Putting all the humanistic hogwash and idiot-ideology aside, the reasons one might chose to eat a specific diet here is for performance not pride



I am surprised we haven't had the age old "my food shyts on your food" response to all the right to lifers

Interesting that some posters here shreeeek from the terror of the cow death camps but are cool with the milking process and down cheese and milk in their so called veggie diets


Brendan Brazier's book Thrive is a great reference for the performance side of Vegan. dude has results to back it up too


read it and use it or read it and burn it either way you are informed
 
Boeing said:
Interesting that some posters here shreeeek from the terror of the cow death camps but are cool with the milking process and down cheese and milk in their so called veggie diets

Well in one scenario the cow gets to die and in the other scenario it gets to be milked. Now personally I don't have a problem with either abbatoirs or milking sheds but I still concede there is a large difference between the two.
 
May 6, 2009
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I haven't eaten meat in nearly two days, I'm not going veg or anything like that (or not planning too), but I had one of better performances in a crit today (not my preferred style of racing), so there maybe something in that.

FTR, it's more circumstance that I haven't eaten any meat.
 
Polyarmour said:
Well in one scenario the cow gets to die and in the other scenario it gets to be milked. Now personally I don't have a problem with either abbatoirs or milking sheds but I still concede there is a large difference between the two.

are you sure there's that much difference between the two?
if you really want to know where your meat and dairy come from in the US and how it's raised/made, go find Earthlings.com, a feature length doco narrated by Joaquin Phoenix.
It's on Youtube in 9 parts - give me some time and I'll find the parts that deal with Food and post the links (or you can look through the whole thing).
You may just have a problem with the "milking sheds" once you see what goes on there...
 
The crazy thing is that both flesh and bovine mammary excretion have zero nutrients that we cant get from plant foods. Even vitamin b12 is produced in the human body and most cases of b12 deficiency are due to absorption issues vs dietary.

Ive trained/raced with the fastest cyclists on earth and of the ones Ive asked if they take a b12 supp, they have all said yes.

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Here is a 17Okm ride I did today in Brisbane Australia.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/50990834
 
May 6, 2009
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I was thinking about this today, with Contador blaming his positive test on "contaminated food (ie meat)", surely any Vegetarian or Vegan group could use this to say: "Don't want to risk ruining your career by eating potential contaminated food? Go veg".
 
craig1985 said:
I was thinking about this today, with Contador blaming his positive test on "contaminated food (ie meat)", surely any Vegetarian or Vegan group could use this to say: "Don't want to risk ruining your career by eating potential contaminated food? Go veg".

I still can't believe he was eating filet mignon during the tour.
 
May 31, 2010
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durianrider said:
"Going vegan gives you a positive for athletic performance,health, the environment and a negative for doping controls..'


contador-on-a-cow.jpg


More nonsense. Plant based proteins = 3rd world proteins. There is a reason our species evolved on animal based proteins. You need to step back from this identity you've created for yourself (it's always in the screen name or signature with the vegetarians, isn't it? lol), and take some time to study human evolution.