Are you a Vegetarian?

[Anonymous]

you noticed???

This thread has well and truly disappeared up its own ****.

unfortunately it always does. The "vegetarian" topic always degenerates into 1) "I eat meat, there's nothing wrong with me, besides turnips are alive too!" versus 2) vegan vegan vegan (even though "vegan" is not a diet).

Everybody's an expert... yawn... zzzzzzzzz

 

[lostintime]

Any thread is only as good as the postings. If you don't like what is being said, you can ignore it. You don't have to say anything.

This thread started about Vegetarianism and it's benefits for athletic performance. One cannot ask such as question without the moral, psychological and spiritual aspects of those choices coming into play. We are human beings, not machines devoid of spirit. If you want a purely technical talk about athletic performance and food choice, this, or any other forum isn't the place for it.

A couple of you may be bored with it, but obviously many are not.

 

[Archibald]

I must say this out of experience, and it's the big R word. Resistance. Resistance to change. We all resist what is meant to benefit us at times. There are infinite reasons we come up with not to change. If one is sincere in their desire to change, a way will be found.

exhibit A: smoking. We all know it's bad for us, yet so many still do it - even with all the bans on advertising, gross-out labels, etc...

 

[Elegant Degenerate]

This thread started about Vegetarianism and it's benefits for athletic performance. One cannot ask such as question without the moral, psychological and spiritual aspects of those choices coming into play. .

If (professional) cycling proves anything, it's that morality has little to do with physical performance. It's more of a perfect example of (an amoral) game theory... but that's another subject.

As for "spirituality", I never really understand what people mean when they use this word. I don't think they do either a lot of the time.

But yes - this threadis (supposed to be) about vegetarianism and its benefits, or detriments, but it's been hi-jacked by nutjobs from both sides.

 

[Anonymous]

pro choice

If (professional) cycling proves anything, it's that morality has little to do with physical performance. It's more of a perfect example of (an amoral) game theory... but that's another subject.

As for "spirituality", I never really understand what people mean when they use this word. I don't think they do either a lot of the time.

But yes - this threadis (supposed to be) about vegetarianism and its benefits, or detriments, but it's been hi-jacked by nutjobs from both sides.

.... of course Bertie now sees the very real advantages of a veg diet...

om hare rama hare krishna.. om

 

[usedtobefast]

i am a born and raised Texan. i have been in California for, even longer,but you can't take away my BBQ. and brisket is my favorite.
i have been to slaughter houses and meat plants, and they may not be the most fun place to hang out, but humans eat meat.

 

[craig1985]

Do people ever get sick of eating 30 banana's a day? I would say five would be my limit, and that would be about it.

 

[Anonymous]

good example

i am a born and raised Texan. i have been in California for, even longer,but you can't take away my BBQ. and brisket is my favorite.
i have been to slaughter houses and meat plants, and they may not be the most fun place to hang out, but humans eat meat.

All this would be exciting if the topic was "where were you born", but it isn't. Try...

Are you a vegetarian? Or have you ever been one? How do you feel it affected your training and athletic performance?

If you are or ever have been a vegetarian, comment on how it may or may not have affected your performance. You could go start a topic like, "I love to eat meat" or "Texans eat meat"

 

[Hangdog98]

All this would be exciting if the topic was "where were you born", but it isn't. Try...

Are you a vegetarian? Or have you ever been one? How do you feel it affected your training and athletic performance?

Q. Are you a vegetarian?
A. No, I'm a Texan

How's that, does that fit in with your 'Rules of the Internet' philosophy?

Vegetarianism is like Global Warming. Only those who agree may contribute, that way you can call it a consensus.

 

[Polyarmour]

All this would be exciting if the topic was "where were you born", but it isn't. Try...

Are you a vegetarian? Or have you ever been one? How do you feel it affected your training and athletic performance?

If you are or ever have been a vegetarian, comment on how it may or may not have affected your performance. You could go start a topic like, "I love to eat meat" or "Texans eat meat"

Oh really? It's a pity you didn't take your own advice with your previous post.

.... of course Bertie now sees the very real advantages of a veg diet...

om hare rama hare krishna.. om

..and you called ME a troll!

 

[usedtobefast]

All this would be exciting if the topic was "where were you born", but it isn't. Try...

Are you a vegetarian? Or have you ever been one? How do you feel it affected your training and athletic performance?

If you are or ever have been a vegetarian, comment on how it may or may not have affected your performance. You could go start a topic like, "I love to eat meat" or "Texans eat meat"

someone needs a hug

 

[Archibald]

... I am married with three small children and to sit down as a family to share blended bananas with my three and six year old daughters just wouldn't work. Dare I say that the ability to eat this diet is for people that don't have a family to share meals with ? ...

with a bit of thought and creativity, you can come up with something other than blended bananas for dinner...
two mates of mine at school were vegan, and it used to be quite cool to be over at theirs (they were brothers) for lunch or dinner because it was always something interesting that was different to the standard meat n 3 veg at our place every night...
but definately agree on the family dinner together

Here's the thing about natural habitat. It doesn't matter what buildings or transport arrangements we currently have, the point is that we have made them, evolved this way, come to this by natural means. This is how we roll in our natural habitat at this particular moment. We're not above or unconnected to the animals of this earth, we share the place and participate in the evolutionary process which, at this moment, we are attempting to control. There will be signs of our existence just as ants make mounds and beavers make dams, but it is still our natural habitat and this is how we evolved.

All animals eat living organisms to survive, only man has created some hierarchy of deservedness to rank which organisms become food and which become companions.

For the record, and having spent a lot of my youth on a farm, the only people who would believe that a farm animal has the intelligence of a 3 year old human, has either never had a child of their own and owned a pig. Farm animals are little more than plants with legs and like the gazelle to the lion, they are on the part of the circle of life where they're food and we eat 'em.

the bold pretty much contradicts yourself there...
we don't live in harmony with nature at all, we destroy it and bend it to our will...

as for "farm" animals, they've been engineered to be as they are, but over thousands of years, unlike the current genetic engineering processes. Ever seen a chicken in the wild? or a daisy cow? And just what and where is their original natural habitat?
its similar to us. describing our current "concrete jungles" as our natural habitat just highlights how far removed we are from our origins, as well as our original natural diet. We're currently omnivores, but we weren't originally - certainly not til we worked out how to use the pointy end of a stick and work in a group.
we keep removing ourselves from the natural way of life, and do it simply through arrogance.
and it's that arrogance that has someone use a preconceived notion of intelligence to compare different animals and then choose whether to show them any respect or not.
we rely so heavily on these animals, yet treat them with so little regard and such contempt it's astounding
i have no problem with eating meat, it's just that the source needs to be sorted out as the sorry state of what's produced (and how) really isn't doing us much good...

 

[lostintime]

with a bit of thought and creativity, you can come up with something other than blended bananas for dinner...
two mates of mine at school were vegan, and it used to be quite cool to be over at theirs (they were brothers) for lunch or dinner because it was always something interesting that was different to the standard meat n 3 veg at our place every night...
but definately agree on the family dinner together



the bold pretty much contradicts yourself there...
we don't live in harmony with nature at all, we destroy it and bend it to our will...

as for "farm" animals, they've been engineered to be as they are, but over thousands of years, unlike the current genetic engineering processes. Ever seen a chicken in the wild? or a daisy cow? And just what and where is their original natural habitat?
its similar to us. describing our current "concrete jungles" as our natural habitat just highlights how far removed we are from our origins, as well as our original natural diet. We're currently omnivores, but we weren't originally - certainly not til we worked out how to use the pointy end of a stick and work in a group.
we keep removing ourselves from the natural way of life, and do it simply through arrogance.
and it's that arrogance that has someone use a preconceived notion of intelligence to compare different animals and then choose whether to show them any respect or not.
we rely so heavily on these animals, yet treat them with so little regard and such contempt it's astounding
i have no problem with eating meat, it's just that the source needs to be sorted out as the sorry state of what's produced (and how) really isn't doing us much good...

I agree.

Farm animals are stupid? This is the pinnacle of the stupid thoughts we humans believe. We think out very narrow definition of intelligence is all there is. In truth, intelligence is limitless. There is intelligence in every atom. Who's to say your "stupid farm animals" who live and die for our food are not intelligent beyond our very limited perceptions. Animals are just like us and all of life, and how we treat them says everything about us a people. If one has no respect for animals, they surely have no respect for themselves or other people.

BTW, from my understand in listening to Harley's(durianrider) interviews, the 30 bananas a day is really a symbol for 3000 calories from fruits and vegetables , not just eating 30 bananas(100 calories per B). I wouldn't advise anyone to try this overnight. You'll shock your mind and body, and you'll likely suffer for it for a while. Start with a meal or two at a time until you learn what all works for you.

I will say this about Harley, his diet works for him. He lives his passion, and it shows. His food choices are a by-product of that passion, so if one does not have the passion to live the life they want from within, I doubt one will find it in eating fruits, vegetables. this is why many try to eat like him and fail. It's not coming from within.

How does all this equate to better riding? Less stress on all levels equals more energy.

 

[Anonymous]

Q. Are you a vegetarian?
A. No, I'm a Texan

How's that, does that fit in with your 'Rules of the Internet' philosophy?

Vegetarianism is like Global Warming. Only those who agree may contribute, that way you can call it a consensus.

yippee eye oh kayeh

now address the third question, the purpose for the thread, do you feel being a vegetarian has affected you cycling performance?

 

[Anonymous]

Oh really? It's a pity you didn't take your own advice with your previous post.





..and you called ME a troll!

.. if I called you a troll I appologize. We have never met, and you may be a reasonable person with sincere reasons for your actions. My goal was to point out the "bumber sticker philosophy" that often creeps into what should be discussions like this. Like... "Don't Mess With Texas!"

 

[Fieldsprint]

I will say this about Harley, his diet works for him. He lives his passion, and it shows. His food choices are a by-product of that passion, so if one does not have the passion to live the life they want from within, I doubt one will find it in eating fruits, vegetables. this is why many try to eat like him and fail. It's not coming from within.

How does all this equate to better riding? Less stress on all levels equals more energy.

Living your passion is a good thing. Basing your diet on it is not. I've said it before and I'll say it again: vegetarians (or any food extremists) are not living in accordance with our evolutionary path.

How long you can fool mother nature depends on the individual.

Wiki on fructose:

"When fructose reaches the liver," says Dr. William J. Whelan, a biochemist at the University of Miami School of Medicine, "the liver goes bananas and stops everything else to metabolize the fructose."

Excessive fructose consumption is also believed to contribute to the development of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

Harley's liver may be able to handle the fructose load of 4000 bananas a day, but maybe not. Time will tell. But anyone looking for nutrition advise would be well advised to do a little research before attempting such silliness.

I think you'll find it's bananas.

Oh...and for the poster that became a vegetarian because he wanted to be like his girlfriend. I mean jeez...

 

[Anonymous]

By Jove you've got it!

someone needs a hug

so here are a few links for you... you did say you need a hug, right?

Texas vegetarian singles ads http://www.veggiedate.org/state/Texas.cfm

Lone Star Vegetarian Network http://dfwnetmall.com/veg/lsvn.htm

Black Vegetarian Society of Texas http://www.bvstx.org/restaurant_health.html

Vegetarian Network of Austin http://www.vegnetaustin.org/

just to git ya'll started, pardner

 

[lostintime]

Living your passion is a good thing. Basing your diet on it is not. I've said it before and I'll say it again: vegetarians (or any food extremists) are not living in accordance with our evolutionary path.

How long you can fool mother nature depends on the individual.

Wiki on fructose:



Harley's liver may be able to handle the fructose load of 4000 bananas a day, but maybe not. Time will tell. But anyone looking for nutrition advise would be well advised to do a little research before attempting such silliness.

I think you'll find it's bananas.

Oh...and for the poster that became a vegetarian because he wanted to be like his girlfriend. I mean jeez...

Living in accordance to the Evolutionary path? Do you know it? .... are you god or some all knowing master of all creation?

He's eating whole fruit, not consuming pure fructose. Big difference.

 

[Archibald]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: vegetarians (or any food extremists) are not living in accordance with our evolutionary path.

living in accordance with our evolutionary path??
and just where exactly is that? microwave meals, mcdonalds, kfc and all the other pre-packaged fast food rubbish??
eating animals that are fed newspaper and steroids, or force fed other supplements to grow at abnormal rates and not develop properly??
other than Clearly Unstable, do you really know what's happened with your meat before it reaches the table?

And can you honestly say that it improves your athletic performance?

Oh...and for the poster that became a vegetarian because he wanted to be like his girlfriend. I mean jeez...

haha! people do some interesting stuff to get sex
but there's nothing wrong with doing something good for yourself being inspired by someone else, especially when that means when you get some sex out of it

 

[Fieldsprint]

Living in accordance to the Evolutionary path? Do you know it? .... are you god or some all knowing master of all creation?

He's eating whole fruit, not consuming pure fructose. Big difference.

Are you suggesting there is zero evidence as to what our ancestors ate?

Do you really think the foods we have consumed for the better part of 2.6 million years has had no effect on our genetic profile?

Did you know that 99.99 percent of the human genome is identical to our ancestors of 100,000 years ago?

Are you able to put any of this together...or are you still searching for the relevance?

Actually, based on your comment, I wouldn't be surprised if you don't believe in evolution, making this whole argument a mute point.

 

[lostintime]

Are you suggesting there is zero evidence as to what our ancestors ate?

Do you really think the foods we have consumed for the better part of 2.6 million years has had no effect on our genetic profile?

Did you know that 99.99 percent of the human genome is identical to our ancestors of 100,000 years ago?

Are you able to put any of this together...or are you still searching for the relevance?

Actually, based on your comment, I wouldn't be surprised if you don't believe in evolution, making this whole argument a mute point.

The arrogance of the thoughts you have written!

Are you assuming you , or anyone else knows what every person on earth has eaten since the beginning of time?
They have all contributed to our "gene pool", as you call it.

We are in a constant state of change. Every last infinite atom that make every one and every thing. There are no finites .... no finite gene pool.

Live in the here and now. You can eat whatever you wish. There is no gene pool or genetic vampire calling you, telling you you must eat X is there? lol!

 

[Fieldsprint]

living in accordance with our evolutionary path??
and just where exactly is that? microwave meals, mcdonalds, kfc and all the other pre-packaged fast food rubbish??
eating animals that are fed newspaper and steroids, or force fed other supplements to grow at abnormal rates and not develop properly??

Uh...no. I don't think McDonalds or KFC have anything to do with living in accordance with our evolutionary path, lol.

do you really know what's happened with your meat before it reaches the table?

I do. Do you? Actually, a more relevant question is if you know the origins and ecological side effects resultant of ALL the food you consume -- not just meat.

And can you honestly say that it improves your athletic performance?

Animal protein...and here is the caveat, so pay attention....raised in the correct environment (grass fed/finished) is the most complete form of protein and thereby necessary for optimum performance.

Of course there will always be outliers capable of performing on a vegetarian diet --- and they will always be used as "examples" of vegan power, but I am interested in the overwhelming majority.

The problem that I see here...time and time again...is most people can not for some reason process the fact that you can eat a "clean" diet with animal protein (and fat).

For example if you are feeling like **** all the time -- tired, worn down, riding like crap --it's natural to look to your diet for answers. And if your diet is so-so or mostly crap (fast food, junk food) there is a decent chance -- at least for awhile -- that you will feel better by switching to a vegetarian diet.

But what have you really done? You basically went from a crap diet full of processed foods to a "cleaner" diet. Well no **** you're going to feel better!

Throwing out all animal protein for vegetable based protein sources is the proverbial baby with the bathwater.

So I would suggest looking at all sides of the matter before jumping to the conclusion that meat is bad. Hey, there is no doubt that factory farming is a bad deal for the animals, but there are other options if that is a concern.

 

[usedtobefast]

.. if I called you a troll I appologize. We have never met, and you may be a reasonable person with sincere reasons for your actions. My goal was to point out the "bumber sticker philosophy" that often creeps into what should be discussions like this. Like... "Don't Mess With Texas!"

you are way off the mark my friend. and yeah i am thinking you are being kind of troll like.
i am not a vegetarian
i find it unnecessary
i tried it but performance went down.
the questions are not mutually exclusive .

 

[Hangdog98]

the bold pretty much contradicts yourself there...
we don't live in harmony with nature at all, we destroy it and bend it to our will...
we keep removing ourselves from the natural way of life, and do it simply through arrogance.

Nope, no contradiction there. This is our natural habitat. This is how we have evolved. As a Darwinist, I believe that what we're doing right now, all of us, is all part of the natural evolutionary process. We do this alongside the animals and plants. We're not from Mars or planted here some 5000 years ago by a merciful God. We're all in this together, all the animals, all together. Some animals manage their prey, some don't. That's evolution.

You're confusing the "natural way of life" with the way we used to live. That was natural back then, this is natural now. This is the natural way of life right here right now, as it always will be. You are no better or worse than any animal even though to some we are prey and to others we are predators. Suggesting that we are not living naturally to me, is Bananas.

Hey and about bananas, they contain starches until they ripen, though the enzymes in your saliva will break down the starch and sweeten the taste. Bananas are a good fuel for athletes to replenish electrolytes too. I'm not sure, but doesn't the sugar in bananas also contain ribulose. BTW, they're also naturally radioactive but don't tell the hippies or they'll start picketing the plantations!

 

[lostintime]

Here's a video that gives an explanation of protein from a raw vegetarian food diet.
I was very skeptical about a vegetarian raw food diet and getting enough protein. What I'm learning is that much of this nutritional info we've been fed has been false. Raw food is full of enzymes. Enzymes are amino acids. Amino acids are what our bodies need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-dlHOmwk4

Google "protein myth"