Astarloa, De Bonis, Caucchioli, Lobato and Serrano are the 5 blood passport victims

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Mar 18, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I'd say a LOT of research and information comes from a few very dedicated people, making an effort to spread that information to those who are not informed. Perhaps it's a waste of time to some people, but I've spent over 25 years in cycling (and XC skiing) to one degree or another, as a racer (not very good), and dabbling in coaching a tiny bit. One of my best friends is an MD/PhD in genetic research, Mrs. Alpe went through quite a bit of science courses in organic chemistry, bio, physics, etc. training to be a vet (since moved on to other career) her best friend is a nurse. Another friend's wife is a physician. I once considered an education in exercise physiology, but life got in the way. I know a few people that have doped, and I'm a sponge and book worm. I absorb what I can from books, the web, from friends, and other sources, and fact check what I can, often with these people, and try to present that to others in as concise, and logical of manner as possible.

Any "venom" I have comes from the information I research translating into cheating to the level that's unfair, and the corruption behind it. It's not the other way around. I don't sit here all plssed off at one athlete or another for some personal reason, and then somehow manufacture some nonsense in order to justify that mindset.
+1. Well said.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
I'd say a LOT of research and information comes from a few very dedicated people, making an effort to spread that information to those who are not informed. Perhaps it's a waste of time to some people, but I've spent over 25 years in cycling (and XC skiing) to one degree or another, as a racer (not very good), and dabbling in coaching a tiny bit. One of my best friends is an MD/PhD in genetic research, Mrs. Alpe went through quite a bit of science courses in organic chemistry, bio, physics, etc. training to be a vet (since moved on to other career) her best friend is a nurse. Another friend's wife is a physician. I once considered an education in exercise physiology, but life got in the way. I know a few people that have doped, and I'm a sponge and book worm. I absorb what I can from books, the web, from friends, and other sources, and fact check what I can, often with these people, and try to present that to others in as concise, and logical of manner as possible.

Any "venom" I have comes from the information I research translating into cheating to the level that's unfair, and the corruption behind it. It's not the other way around. I don't sit here all plssed off at one athlete or another for some personal reason, and then somehow manufacture some nonsense in order to justify that mindset.
+1 I totaly understand you
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I'd say a LOT of research and information comes from a few very dedicated people, making an effort to spread that information to those who are not informed.
I can only encourage you to keep on sharing what you know!
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Guys watch Gustov Larsson. He has 6.2 watts per kilo in the Tour of Calfornia. Watch him in the Tour de France and see how he does.

Thats something I should have brought up.
 
Mar 16, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Says the internet tough guy who challenges people to come to his house to fight.

When you gonna grow a set and offer to shoulder the burden of travel expenses?
I'll pay if we broadcast live and I get the pay-per-view rights.
 
May 6, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I'd say a LOT of research and information comes from a few very dedicated people, making an effort to spread that information to those who are not informed. Perhaps it's a waste of time to some people, but I've spent over 25 years in cycling (and XC skiing) to one degree or another, as a racer (not very good), and dabbling in coaching a tiny bit. One of my best friends is an MD/PhD in genetic research, Mrs. Alpe went through quite a bit of science courses in organic chemistry, bio, physics, etc. training to be a vet (since moved on to other career) her best friend is a nurse. Another friend's wife is a physician. I once considered an education in exercise physiology, but life got in the way. I know a few people that have doped, and I'm a sponge and book worm. I absorb what I can from books, the web, from friends, and other sources, and fact check what I can, often with these people, and try to present that to others in as concise, and logical of manner as possible.

Any "venom" I have comes from the information I research translating into cheating to the level that's unfair, and the corruption behind it. It's not the other way around. I don't sit here all plssed off at one athlete or another for some personal reason, and then somehow manufacture some nonsense in order to justify that mindset.
Why I think your one of the best posters on this site.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
I'd say a LOT of research and information comes from a few very dedicated people, making an effort to spread that information to those who are not informed. Perhaps it's a waste of time to some people, but I've spent over 25 years in cycling (and XC skiing) to one degree or another, as a racer (not very good), and dabbling in coaching a tiny bit. One of my best friends is an MD/PhD in genetic research, Mrs. Alpe went through quite a bit of science courses in organic chemistry, bio, physics, etc. training to be a vet (since moved on to other career) her best friend is a nurse. Another friend's wife is a physician. I once considered an education in exercise physiology, but life got in the way. I know a few people that have doped, and I'm a sponge and book worm. I absorb what I can from books, the web, from friends, and other sources, and fact check what I can, often with these people, and try to present that to others in as concise, and logical of manner as possible.

Any "venom" I have comes from the information I research translating into cheating to the level that's unfair, and the corruption behind it. It's not the other way around. I don't sit here all plssed off at one athlete or another for some personal reason, and then somehow manufacture some nonsense in order to justify that mindset.
And yet 95% of the claims and accusations made here wouldn't pass any decent standard of proof. See BigBoat's effort in this thread as an example.
 
You're right Jay, but it is a web forum, which is an area for speculation and banter. I have to admit a lot of the time I'm reaching, broaching, swinging. But I try to use as much logic in my suppositions as possible. If I were on the board at WADA for example, I might draw similar conclusions internally, but wouldn't be pursuing this in any legal fashion, or speaking out about them. That's why it's an internet forum.

I did say this info came from a few dedicated people. Elapid, Epi, BroDeal, Mello, and others, even BigB when he settles down because he is informative, post in the same way. Others as well. Too late and tired to credit everyone, sorry.
 
Should note that I exchanged some e-mail with Anne about two years ago. She was pretty civil and reasonable, but that doesn't mean I think the UCI is thorough, and their testing even and complete.

I should try to write to her again and ask about CO blood volume profiling.
 
So what a people's thoughts over this?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gusev-back-in-action-after-cas-decision

The timing couldn't be better, or worse, depending upon what your views are on the passport.
At a stroke, CAS has made the internal team medical monitoring programmes, unviable, IMO. Certainly when factoring in their costs.
The UCI, with their passports, seem to have landed the teams with an extremely expensive turkey, by handing over names of the abnormals and saying: "There you are, you deal with it."
Management have little option but to act, but face the prospect on an expensive and protracted legal wrangle and a potentially hefty payout to the plantiff, at it's conclusion.

Will the passport scheme survive, in it's current form, or is linking to power outputs now inevitable?
 
well, I think the passport is a shame. So much controls and so on for this result??????
I mean, one retired from saunier (Lobato) another disapeared since years (Astarloa) another veteran (cauchioli) another that won a stage in romandia very suspiciously last year (de bonis, which was clear he was dopped) and then Richie Serrano (ex- tinkoff now katusha.....)

Then Greipel saying the peloton is clean, and they want to sanction Valverde for something from 2004!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

world is mad!
 
BigBoat said:
Bro I'll prove to you very briefly how we know almost the entire top 100 are blood doped with their own packed red cells from the crypto freezer....

Astorloza kicked everybody's *** at the 2003 world championships.... EVERYBODY WAS JACKED in 2003 with no rectic counts or testing for homologous blood refills.... Not to mention riders still had jacked iron stores a couple years before (on epo) and nothing was done. With the "level" field of everyone on epo Astorloza thrived. $hit you could blood dope with cow blood, or somebody else's blood with no cross checks and you never ever risked a positive...

Pietro Caucchioli finished 3rd at the Giro in 02 where everybody was clearly doped (2002.) He rode well throughout his career (during the era of limitless jacked crits with epo). Now in the "clean" era everybody kicks his doped a$$... He's a "cheater" who won BIG in the past but now blood doped to the gills and he cant get jack except for a black list?

2001 – Alessio
9th, Overall, Giro d'Italia
1st, Stage 8, (Montecatini Terme - Reggio Emilia, 185 km)
1st, Stage 17, (Sanremo - Sanremo, 119 km)
2002 – Alessio
1st Vuelta Ciclista a Aragón, stage 3
3rd, Overall, Giro d'Italia
2003 – Alessio
1st Giro della Provincia di Lucca, stage 3
26th, Overall, Giro d'Italia
2005 – Crédit Agricole
8th, Overall, Giro d'Italia
36th, Overall, Tour de France
2006 – Crédit Agricole
Stages 9-11, Orange Jersey, Mountains Classification leader Vuelta a España
9th, Overall, Dauphiné Libéré
16th, Overall, Tour de France
well, you could also name Aitor Gonzalez and dario Frigo from 2002 Giro and what???? then Valverde under red light... for what serves to see things in retrospective? for n-o-t-h-i-n-g
 
May 6, 2009
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Isn't Peter Luttenberger the moral winner of the 1996 Tour de France? When you look at it like this:

1 - Bjarne Riis - he admitted he had doped, but that cloud was always over him. Who attacks in the big chain ring in the Pyrennes and drops the bunch?
2 - Jan Ullrich - pretty obvious he was since he was in the same team
3 - Richard Virenque - rode for Festina and admitted he did so anyway
4 - Laurent Dufaux - as above

Luttenberger probably was 'jacked' so to speak but there has nothing that has come back to haunt him, like the first four in front of him.
 
Hasn't there been argument that a rider's "irregular values" could be attributed to any number of factors, not simply isolated to doping? I've read where a rider being dehydrated can cause this. Other health related issues I've heard could effect the results of a test. Are these true and if so wouldn't Astana had run tests to eliminate these possibilities or did they simply overreact and fire Gusev in a knee-jerk reaction to maintain the teams reputation? I'm not well versed in all the details of doping as many of this forums posters are that's why I ask.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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craig1985 said:
Isn't Peter Luttenberger the moral winner of the 1996 Tour de France? When you look at it like this:

1 - Bjarne Riis - he admitted he had doped, but that cloud was always over him. Who attacks in the big chain ring in the Pyrennes and drops the bunch?
2 - Jan Ullrich - pretty obvious he was since he was in the same team
3 - Richard Virenque - rode for Festina and admitted he did so anyway
4 - Laurent Dufaux - as above

Luttenberger probably was 'jacked' so to speak but there has nothing that has come back to haunt him, like the first four in front of him.
Pete rode for Carrera Jeans in 1996 with the likes of Chiapucci and Pantani. He finished almost as a nobody 7 minutes before Indurain and Rominger in the TdF of 1996. The year after he moved to Rabobank as a designated GC contender for 2 years were he absolutely underwhelmed with his performances (13th in the TdF in 1998), after which he moved to ONCE in 1999 and later even CSC. I wonder what happened to him after that 'peak' in his performance in 1996.

BTW it's quite funny to read these old cyclingnews reports.

Stage 7 - Chambery-Les Arcs - 202km:

The 31-year-old Spaniard, seeking a record sixth consecutive win, has not endured a worse day in the saddle since he was an ordinary workrider for Pedro Delgado in the late 1980s

But it was Zulle, who survived two falls on the descent from Cormet de Roselend, and his ONCE teammate Aitor Garmendia who sewed the seeds for Indurain's shock reverse.

Garmendia, a former teammate of Indurain's, set the pace of the lead group up Les Arcs and evidently played on whatever weakness he could recall Indurain possessed.

Ultimately, Zulle, too, paid the penalty as leading rivals Tony Rominger of Switzerland, Yevgeny Berzin of Russia and Bjarne Riis, the Danish champion and third overall last year, broke away -- leaving Indurain and the Swiss to trail in over three minutes behind them and over four minutes behind stage winner Luc Leblanc of France

It was the sight of Indurain struggling and desperate for refreshment that really stunned the spectators -- though it must have given his challengers an enormous psychological boost to see the God of the Tour was mortal after all.
Here is one from the ITT uphill 30k, stage 8 in the 1996 TdF:

The time-trial failed to lift Spain's five-time winner Miguel Indurain. The 31-year-old failed to make an impression on the overall leaders -- he lies 11th four minutes and 53 seconds behind Berzin.

Indurain's Banesto team were hoping that his nightmare on Saturday's seventh stage, where he was left trailing on the final climb to Les Arcs, would be wiped out by a winning performance in the time-trial, where he has been dominant in the past.
and then this one, from the live report, Stage 16 - Agen-Hautacam - 192,5km:

On the front Indurain is still second in line, Jan Ullrich (Telekom) is also there. At the back of the group are Abraham Olano (Mapei) and Evgeni Berzin (Gewiss). Riis is very near the back. After the stage he says, yes, he was looking at everybody, seeing how they looked. They weren't looking too good and at 9km he attacks!

It's a measured, testing acceleration -- I didn't go 100% he says later, and he eases off as Indurain goes on his wheel. Riis accelerates again and is out of the saddle followed by Indurain, Dufaux, Virenque, Leonardo Piepoli (Refin) and takes them away -- a new selection. Several metres back Berzin is visibly struggling and there's no sign of Rominger either. Riis eases again.

Riis attacks again and only Virenque is responding with any conviction. Indurain too but he seems to be struggling. Olano comes past him as does Luttenberger.

Riis turns on the power -- not a sharp acceleration, he just turns on the power -- like Miguel used to do. He rides clear of Dufaux, Virenque and Leblanc who are going well but not well enough.

Farther back Indurain is trying hard but to little effect with Ullrich, Luttenberger, Olano, Fernado Escartin (Kelme).

With 5km to go Riis is safely away, with a group of four settling to their work a bit behind: Leblanc, Virenque, Dufaux, Piepoli.

Maybe 5.5km to go Indurain is being dropped from his little group -- Olano, Ullrich, Luttenberger.... are going away from him.

Behind him Rominger is suffering but he's putting on a brave show. He sees Indurain riding like an ordinary tall big man on a climb, slow cadence, no rhythm, and puts on a show as he goes past, accelerating out of the saddle, just before the 5km banner.

Riis now has 28 secs on the four chasers

Rominger is inspired. He comes up to the ex-Indurain group, joining Luttenberger, Olano, Escartin, Brochard, Ulllrich and Piotr Ugrumov (Roslotto).

With 1km to go for Riis, Berzin is 3 minutes down, Indurain at 2.30.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Angliru said:
Hasn't there been argument that a rider's "irregular values" could be attributed to any number of factors, not simply isolated to doping? I've read where a rider being dehydrated can cause this. Other health related issues I've heard could effect the results of a test. Are these true and if so wouldn't Astana had run tests to eliminate these possibilities or did they simply overreact and fire Gusev in a knee-jerk reaction to maintain the teams reputation? I'm not well versed in all the details of doping as many of this forums posters are that's why I ask.
check what Michele Ferrari has to say

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=71
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
I'd say a LOT of research and information comes from a few very dedicated people, making an effort to spread that information to those who are not informed. Perhaps it's a waste of time to some people, but I've spent over 25 years in cycling (and XC skiing) to one degree or another, as a racer (not very good), and dabbling in coaching a tiny bit. One of my best friends is an MD/PhD in genetic research, Mrs. Alpe went through quite a bit of science courses in organic chemistry, bio, physics, etc. training to be a vet (since moved on to other career) her best friend is a nurse. Another friend's wife is a physician. I once considered an education in exercise physiology, but life got in the way. I know a few people that have doped, and I'm a sponge and book worm. I absorb what I can from books, the web, from friends, and other sources, and fact check what I can, often with these people, and try to present that to others in as concise, and logical of manner as possible.

Any "venom" I have comes from the information I research translating into cheating to the level that's unfair, and the corruption behind it. It's not the other way around. I don't sit here all plssed off at one athlete or another for some personal reason, and then somehow manufacture some nonsense in order to justify that mindset.
I appreciate your good posts Alpe. Keep up the good work. I considered your posts a reliable source of information along with few other posters.
Thanks.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Bala Verde said:
Also from the site:
"Dr. Michele Ferrari is the mastermind behind all 53x12.com training-related content and programs.

His lifelong dedication to sport science and cycling practice makes him one of the most acknowledged and experienced coaches in the world.

Some of the most famous stars of professional cycling chose Dr Ferrari as a training guidance, relying on his knowledge and intuitions to better succeed in their competitive goals."

I like that last part.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
A
Some of the most famous stars of professional cycling chose Dr Ferrari as a training guidance, relying on his knowledge and intuitions to better succeed in their competitive goals."

I like that last part.
Yeah that is funny :D Knowledge as a 'Haematologist' and Intuitions in how he 'perceives the state of current anti-doping testing'. I wonder how much he charges nowadays?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Bala Verde said:
Yeah that is funny :D Knowledge as a 'Haematologist' and Intuitions in how he 'perceives the state of current anti-doping testing'. I wonder how much he charges nowadays?
Yea, if I am paying for intuitions, the sign on the door will have a hand with various astrological symbols on it. I'll bet Miss Cleo charges a little less too.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
jackhammer111 said:
is anybody going to get around to talking about what's in this article or is everybody just going to bash the source?
No and yes.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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jackhammer111 said:
is anybody going to get around to talking about what's in this article or is everybody just going to bash the source?
I already discussed it somewhere else. So if you would like to kick it off, be my guest!
 
Bala Verde said:
Thanks for the link.

Unrelated to my original post is that Iban Mayo's B sample was tested twice: first in a Sydney lab where it was found to be negative and because it didn't concur with the A sample test in Paris, it was sent back to the original lab to be tested a second time. Isn't this contrary to the testing protocols? Also
as stated on site, if the B sample is found to be negative isn't that the end of the testing especially since the B sample is no longer sealed and thus opens up the testing to questions of potential manipulation of the sample. Testing the B sample at the same lab as the A seems contrary to their own protocols and gives the appearance of impropriety.
 

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