Boonen VS Cancellara

[El Pistolero]

You can't discuss with someone who thinks Cancellara had a better classics season in 2009. His best result was 49th in Paris-Roubaix that year

Clearly better than Boonen's victory in Paris-Roubaix I must say... It's so obvious this guy has never watched the spring classics before 2010.

 

[c&cfan]

I think you are correct... He's clearly going well as is his team. Should be an outstanding couple of weekends.

Btw, Flanders will almost certainly have rain.. at least from the looks of things AND the longer range forecasts are showing rain the weekend of PR as well.

Could be epic.

are you serious?????????????????

i never had the privilege to watch one like that!

 

[Froome19]

Boonen was BETTER in 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009.

This is about 2012, not 2011.

So far they seem evenly matched, it can go either way really.

Exactly, not about 2004-2009 thus as 2010 & 2011 is closer to 2012 than 2004-2009 is than therefore logically Cancellara is better.
Granted if it was 2004-2009 Boonen he may very well be as strong yet it is not 2004-2009 Boonen is it whilst it is Cancellara 2010- which is obviously stronger

wait a little..

cancellara on top shape while racing MSR, ronde and roubaix is superman to anyone.. nobody can be as strong as him.

except tom.

i see cancellara as the strongest guy ever at these 3 monuments.
but i also see boonen as equal (when he is at is best) with the potential to be even stronger.

sorry but how old are you?do you remember "tornado tom"? i think that canc is equal to boonen at his 2005/2006 level. but i don't believe that boonen was at his limit back then. just like ulrich at 23...

so much potential..

Your right I am too young to have watched "tornado tom" but as I have said above that is irrelevant...
Using your logic Lance should win this year's tour and Devolder should be favorite for this years Ronde.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's pretty clear to everyone that Boonen is much much stronger than last year except to you...

 

[Froome19]

You can't discuss with someone who thinks Cancellara had a better classics season in 2009. His best result was 49th in Paris-Roubaix that year

Clearly better than Boonen's victory in Paris-Roubaix I must say... It's so obvious this guy has never watched the spring classics before 2010.

It was a mistake I never said explicitly 2009 but just got carried a bit away but you cant just discard my argument because of a mistake or because i was too young to watch the 2009 classics!

 

[rghysens]

are you serious?????????????????

i never had the privilege to watch one like that!

The 2008 race had rain, hail and snow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8blszJgScZU

 

[Froome19]

It's pretty clear to everyone that Boonen is much much stronger than last year except to you...

Yeh but is he stronger than 2010?
Also its irrelevant that boonen is stronger than last year, so is Pozzato.....

 

[El Pistolero]

It was a mistake I never said explicitly 2009 but just got carried a bit away but you cant just discard my argument because of a mistake or because i was too young to watch the 2009 classics!

I discarded your arguments with arguments of my own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_k-2R3YpZ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEVFahkKk-w

That's the reason why Boonen was crap in 2011

What you're doing now would be the same as saying Cancellara sucked after his bad classics season of 2009(where he was ill and thus had a valid excuse). It's not a wise thing to say. Right now, it can go either way between them.

 

[Anonymous]

The 2008 race had rain, hail and snow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8blszJgScZU

Yes it did. The strange thing about 2008 was that a cloud cover would drift over, the temperature would drop, it would rain and sleet, then it would clear up and be fine.

This went on and on.

Standing on the Muur watching the drunks slip and slide down the hill was pretty funny.

 

[rghysens]

I think you are correct... He's clearly going well as is his team. Should be an outstanding couple of weekends.

Btw, Flanders will almost certainly have rain.. at least from the looks of things AND the longer range forecasts are showing rain the weekend of PR as well.

Could be epic.

According to the website of the belgian meteorological institute it will only be a light drizzle.
http://www.meteo.be/meteo/view/nl/65656-Weer.html?region=belgium&period=2

 

[Anonymous]

According to the website of the belgian meteorological institute it will only be a light drizzle.
http://www.meteo.be/meteo/view/nl/65656-Weer.html?region=belgium&period=2

That is all well and good but clearly the effects of my rain dance have not taken effect just yet.

Scott says rain.

 

[The Hitch]

Cancellara was TOTAL CRAP in the classics of 2009. He was sick. Boonen was TOTAL CRAP in the classics of 2011. Some idiot made him crash in the Tour de Suisse 2010.

Boonen was BETTER in 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009.

This is about 2012, not 2011.

So far they seem evenly matched, it can go either way really.

The fact that you and all your pro Boonen anti Cancellara bias is saying that they are even, shows exactly what the situation is.

Boonen is incredible, what a great athlete.

But Cancellara is from another planet.

That does not mean Cancellara will win of course, and Boonen does have a way better team to aid him in that, but as far as strength goes, there is a very clear winner. Sorry.

 

[Wallace]

The fact that you and all your pro Boonen anti Cancellara bias is saying that they are even, shows exactly what the situation is.

Boonen is incredible, what a great athlete.

But Cancellara is from another planet.

That does not mean Cancellara will win of course, and Boonen does have a way better team to aid him in that, but as far as strength goes, there is a very clear winner. Sorry.

I've always wondered about this. In 2008 Boonen easily outsprinted Cancellara and Ballan in the Roubaix velodrome--he was clearly the strongest of the three. I remember Cancellara saying something post-race about how he'd tried to shake off Boonen, and kept attacking until he was "cramping up to his ears." Boonen was in total control that year and was utterly dominant. Then two years later Cancellara has another gear and is suddenly superman. Everyone talks about what a beast FC is and how he's on another level from the whole peloton, but that's really been the case only from 2010 on. He's always been great, and the best TT'er alive, etc., but he was not the strongest man in the classics until relatively recently. It could be that his total dominance was just a freak year or two--that he's still strong, but not on another planet (and I am not, by the way, implying that there's anything suspicious about his power). There isn't any reason things this year couldn't turn out to be the way they were in 2008. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Froome19]

He's always been great, and the best TT'er alive, etc., but he was not the strongest man in the classics until relatively recently. It could be that his total dominance was just a freak year or two--that he's still strong, but not on another planet (and I am not, by the way, implying that there's anything suspicious about his power). There isn't any reason things this year couldn't turn out to be the way they were in 2008. We'll have to wait and see.

Yes there is reasons why, starting with the fact that
he was that way in the last 2 years so logically he should be that way this year!
Also 2008 was 4 years ago when it is obvious that rather than just going freak, Cancellara has improved like riders tend to do as they go older, especially their later 20's.
Also 2008 was 2008 which was as I have said 4 years ago so the reason Cancellara isnt going to be at that level is becuase he has evidently porgressed since then, 2011 is much more recent as proof so why go looking at 2008?

 

[The Hitch]

I'm not going to deny Boonen's past achievments and I do have a lot of respect for them.

My opinion is based heavily on Cancellaras performances in MSB and MSR, which were just insane and if he can bring that to the cobbled classics, which is his aim, fuggedaboudit.

 

[Wallace]

Yes there is reasons why, starting with the fact that
he was that way in the last 2 years so logically he should be that way this year!
Also 2008 was 4 years ago when it is obvious that rather than just going freak, Cancellara has improved like riders tend to do as they go older, especially their later 20's.
Also 2008 was 2008 which was as I have said 4 years ago so the reason Cancellara isnt going to be at that level is becuase he has evidently porgressed since then, 2011 is much more recent as proof so why go looking at 2008?

Yes--but by the same logic, shouldn't Boonen be better too? Another thing--it's possible that 2010 was Cancellara's peak year. Riders get better in their late 20s, and then start to get weaker in their early 30s. Great classics riders--Kelly is an an excellent example--rely on tactical smarts to make up for the loss of power. I don't think we'll see that happen with Sparticus.

 

[Froome19]

Yes--but by the same logic, shouldn't Boonen be better too? Another thing--it's possible that 2010 was Cancellara's peak year. Riders get better in their late 20s, and then start to get weaker in their early 30s. Great classics riders--Kelly is an an excellent example--rely on tactical smarts to make up for the loss of power. I don't think we'll see that happen with Sparticus.

Why would Boonen be better too?confused:
It may be true what you say but from what Cancellara has shown so far this season i find it difficult to believe that his ability has receded.

 

[c&cfan]

Yes--but by the same logic, shouldn't Boonen be better too? Another thing--it's possible that 2010 was Cancellara's peak year. Riders get better in their late 20s, and then start to get weaker in their early 30s. Great classics riders--Kelly is an an excellent example--rely on tactical smarts to make up for the loss of power. I don't think we'll see that happen with Sparticus.

for me it's obvious that canc is getting stronger and better since 2003..
boonen started as a prodigy and was also getting better until too much success and injury started to mess with his head. now he is right on track again.

there are other examples..

ulrich.. andy.. cunego..etc

 

[Hitchey]

I've always wondered about this. In 2008 Boonen easily outsprinted Cancellara and Ballan in the Roubaix velodrome--he was clearly the strongest of the three. I remember Cancellara saying something post-race about how he'd tried to shake off Boonen, and kept attacking until he was "cramping up to his ears." Boonen was in total control that year and was utterly dominant. Then two years later Cancellara has another gear and is suddenly superman. Everyone talks about what a beast FC is and how he's on another level from the whole peloton, but that's really been the case only from 2010 on. He's always been great, and the best TT'er alive, etc., but he was not the strongest man in the classics until relatively recently. It could be that his total dominance was just a freak year or two--that he's still strong, but not on another planet (and I am not, by the way, implying that there's anything suspicious about his power). There isn't any reason things this year couldn't turn out to be the way they were in 2008. We'll have to wait and see.

I think you summed it up pretty well.

 

[Parrulo]

Cancellara was TOTAL CRAP in the classics of 2009. He was sick. Boonen was TOTAL CRAP in the classics of 2011. Some idiot made him crash in the Tour de Suisse 2010.

Boonen was BETTER in 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009.

This is about 2012, not 2011.

So far they seem evenly matched, it can go either way really.

i see what you did there

Why would Boonen be better too?confused:
It may be true what you say but from what Cancellara has shown so far this season i find it difficult to believe that his ability has receded.

maybe because he is only a few months older then cancellara? saying boonen couldn't have improved since 2008 would be denying your on argument for cancellara.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmkC2FynBkU

if that boonen is back 2010 cancellara may get more then he can chew. notice how a only a few months younger cancellara looks like he isn't even moving (just like all the other riders in the peloton) compared to boonen

 

[mr. tibbs]

One misconception I've seen at least once in this thread is that Boonen was bad in 2011. ("Crap" was the word, I think.) I don't see the case for this. He was strong in the Flanders finale, just missed the important move--though he did destroy the second group with his last ditch effort to bridge up.

He seemed a good bet for Roubaix, too, but then that unfortunate mechanical struck him in the Arenberg forest and he crashed a couple of times trying to get back to the lead group. I don't think that shows bad form any more than Cancellara's bad luck at E3 the other day.

Disclaimer: I do like Boonen, but I think it's not quite accurate to say that his 2011 form was bad.

 

[maltiv]

One misconception I've seen at least once in this thread is that Boonen was bad in 2011. ("Crap" was the word, I think.) I don't see the case for this. He was strong in the Flanders finale, just missed the important move--though he did destroy the second group with his last ditch effort to bridge up.

He seemed a good bet for Roubaix, too, but then that unfortunate mechanical struck him in the Arenberg forest and he crashed a couple of times trying to get back to the lead group. I don't think that shows bad form any more than Cancellara's bad luck at E3 the other day.

Disclaimer: I do like Boonen, but I think it's not quite accurate to say that his 2011 form was bad.

Indeed. People seem to quickly forget everything but the actual result. For example some people on this forum were talking about Cancellara's bad shape in the 2011 classics too...

Boonen was riding really strongly in both 2010 and 2011 but he lacked the little bit of luck one needs to get a monument.

 

[Parrulo]

Indeed. People seem to quickly forget everything but the actual result. For example some people on this forum were talking about Cancellara's bad shape in the 2011 classics too...

Boonen was riding really strongly in both 2010 and 2011 but he lacked the little bit of luck one needs to get a monument.

in 2010 boonen was indeed very strong.

but he wasn't all that strong at the 2011 ronde. when gilbert pushed the pace up the muur to bridge across to canc, who upped the pace himself for the second part of the climb, boonen was in 4th place at the start just behind gilbert leukemens and nuyens over the muur he gets passed by ballan and let's a very big gap form over those guys. sorry but 2010 boonen wouldn't have been dropped by ballan nuyens and leukemens on the muur.

 

[Froome19]

maybe because he is only a few months older then cancellara? saying boonen couldn't have improved since 2008 would be denying your on argument for cancellara.

Look at my post.

Yes there is reasons why, starting with the fact that
he was that way in the last 2 years so logically he should be that way this year!
Also 2008 was 4 years ago when it is obvious that rather than just going freak, Cancellara has improved like riders tend to do as they go older, especially their later 20's.
Also 2008 was 2008 which was as I have said 4 years ago so the reason Cancellara isnt going to be at that level is becuase he has evidently porgressed since then, 2011 is much more recent as proof so why go looking at 2008?

You will notice that i said that riders tend to, of course some riders dont especially if they develop earlier like Boonen did.

Also I said that the main indicator is due to the fact that Cancellara has improved, has Boonen improved since 2008?

 

[The Hitch]

Indeed. People seem to quickly forget everything but the actual result. For example some people on this forum were talking about Cancellara's bad shape in the 2011 classics too...

Boonen was riding really strongly in both 2010 and 2011 but he lacked the little bit of luck one needs to get a monument.

Well no in 2010 Cancellara was just much better.

Unless you are talking about MSR but even there Freire seemed to be that little bit better.