British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars including Br

[budegan]

Not sure I've seen this discussed here so will post an observation which might provoke discussion by others more knowledgeable, experienced, and articulate than myself.

So I've just caught up on the English version of the Seppelt documentary (http://www.sportschau.de/doping/video-british-doctor-claims-he-doped-numerous-athletes-englische-version-100.html).

At 06.22 we see the undercover filming of Dr Bonar mentioning the British TDF rider he claims to have treated who "mastered the climbs".

The next shot is of a cyclist in a GB jersey whose back is to us.

I'm wondering who that rider is, and why - of all the images the filmmakers could have chosen to use at that exact moment in the piece - they chose that one...

 

[Cannibal72]

Re:

Not sure I've seen this discussed here so will post an observation which might provoke discussion by others more knowledgeable, experienced, and articulate than myself.

So I've just caught up on the English version of the Seppelt documentary (http://www.sportschau.de/doping/video-british-doctor-claims-he-doped-numerous-athletes-englische-version-100.html).

At 06.22 we see the undercover filming of Dr Bonar mentioning the British TDF rider he claims to have treated who "mastered the climbs".

The next shot is of a cyclist in a GB jersey whose back is to us.

I'm wondering who that rider is, and why - of all the images the filmmakers could have chosen to use at that exact moment in the piece - they chose that one...

Potentially interesting, but on the balance of probability it's more likely just to be an establishing shot, probably one from the archives; if you think about it, there's not really that many images you can use to illustrate a documentary about doping - phials get a little dull after a while - so chances are it's just a photo to offer some visual interest and demonstrate the point.

 

[kwikki]

Re:

Not sure I've seen this discussed here so will post an observation which might provoke discussion by others more knowledgeable, experienced, and articulate than myself.

So I've just caught up on the English version of the Seppelt documentary (http://www.sportschau.de/doping/video-british-doctor-claims-he-doped-numerous-athletes-englische-version-100.html).

At 06.22 we see the undercover filming of Dr Bonar mentioning the British TDF rider he claims to have treated who "mastered the climbs".

He didn't say that.

He didn't mention the nationality of the TdF rider at all. In fact, the only nationalities mentioned were cricketers ' English and Australian'.

Not surprised Australian cricketers are doping. They need to.

Being serious though, what surprises me in the limited coverage of what Bonar said is the lack of attention given to evading tests. Maybe he said stuff that hasn't been reported, but he was dishing out some very detectable substances, and he doesn't seem on the surface to be talking about testing. It all seems a bit amateurish.

Surely multimillionaire sportsmen and women could do a bit better than this goon?

As for the shots of Team GB athletes, I think that was to emphasise that the stuff about British anti-doping being acclaimed and used to manage Rio 2016, despite not doing anything about evidence handed to them about Bonar.

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Re:

and there we have it, the 'independent' investigation that is going to make it all go away.
head of the commission has just been appointed by UKAD.
yes, you read that right.
https://twitter.com/danroan/status/717364502405189632

That is awesome! Independence British Anti-Doping style.

and that's the end of BonerGate... conveniently overshadowed in the media by PanamaPampers scandal

on the other hand, the first argumentJeff Novitzky showed LA was his gun... no need to stress he's meaning it, not only talking it

 

[Taxus4a]

Cyclist doent mean World Tour road racer. It could be a lot of options, and he doesnt give names. Could be just one MTB rider and no more.

 

[kwikki]

No, he talked about a TdF cyclist.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Not sure I've seen this discussed here so will post an observation which might provoke discussion by others more knowledgeable, experienced, and articulate than myself.

So I've just caught up on the English version of the Seppelt documentary (http://www.sportschau.de/doping/video-british-doctor-claims-he-doped-numerous-athletes-englische-version-100.html).

At 06.22 we see the undercover filming of Dr Bonar mentioning the British TDF rider he claims to have treated who "mastered the climbs".

The next shot is of a cyclist in a GB jersey whose back is to us.

I'm wondering who that rider is, and why - of all the images the filmmakers could have chosen to use at that exact moment in the piece - they chose that one...

It's is strange the chose that picture? Looks like some track rider, no way he would do well at the Tour de France

 

[The Hitch]

Why not. Everyone knows that true TDF talent potential reveals itself in the TP.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Eh?

Did you miss the entire saga in 2012, when the British Olympic Comittee wanted to maintain its ban on British athletes competing in the UK olympics if they had served more than a 6 month ban for doping? They were opposed by WADA and taken to CAS.

Let me repeat....it was the British Olympic Committee, taking a tougher stance than WADA would allow. This was right in the run up to the London Olympics. It was all over the news, and there was very little opposition to the BOA stance from anybody within the UK.

And yet, as far as I can tell nobody at WADA forced the hideous corporate creation that is "Team GB" to select those athletes. They couldn't bar them from competing if they'd served their time, but while the Italians included neo-pros in their selection because they sidelined their riders who had been busted for doping, the British team was somehow horribly forced by those aggressive pro-dope campaigners at WADA to select David Millar.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

Eh?

Did you miss the entire saga in 2012, when the British Olympic Comittee wanted to maintain its ban on British athletes competing in the UK olympics if they had served more than a 6 month ban for doping? They were opposed by WADA and taken to CAS.

Let me repeat....it was the British Olympic Committee, taking a tougher stance than WADA would allow. This was right in the run up to the London Olympics. It was all over the news, and there was very little opposition to the BOA stance from anybody within the UK.

And yet, as far as I can tell nobody at WADA forced the hideous corporate creation that is "Team GB" to select those athletes. They couldn't bar them from competing if they'd served their time, but while the Italians included neo-pros in their selection because they sidelined their riders who had been busted for doping, the British team was somehow horribly forced by those aggressive pro-dope campaigners at WADA to select David Millar.

Indeed, but I wasn't talking about Team GB. I was talking about the British Olympic Association's attempts to stop convicted dopers competing.

Team GB clearly no longer gave a *** about who competed.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

No, he talked about a TdF cyclist.

Just one?
Brittish?
when?

It is possible, If it is true I hope they catch him, but I am sure he is not getting a big advantage of that as it was in the past.

But just a mand talking in a hiden camara could mean a lot of things.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Eh?

Did you miss the entire saga in 2012, when the British Olympic Comittee wanted to maintain its ban on British athletes competing in the UK olympics if they had served more than a 6 month ban for doping? They were opposed by WADA and taken to CAS.

Let me repeat....it was the British Olympic Committee, taking a tougher stance than WADA would allow. This was right in the run up to the London Olympics. It was all over the news, and there was very little opposition to the BOA stance from anybody within the UK.

And yet, as far as I can tell nobody at WADA forced the hideous corporate creation that is "Team GB" to select those athletes. They couldn't bar them from competing if they'd served their time, but while the Italians included neo-pros in their selection because they sidelined their riders who had been busted for doping, the British team was somehow horribly forced by those aggressive pro-dope campaigners at WADA to select David Millar.

Indeed, but I wasn't talking about Team GB. I was talking about the British Olympic Association's attempts to stop convicted dopers competing.

Team GB clearly no longer gave a *** about who competed.

That's a good point. And actually quite comical when one thinks about the way Brunyeelsford tries to paint himself as Lord Antidoping in the press.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Why not. Everyone knows that true TDF talent potential reveals itself in the TP.

I would laugh out loud the day a track rider wins the Tour, that would be unbelievable

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Cameron and Clegg

yeah, i know lib dems turfed, and Bojo was never given the armchair ride...

but, in Australia on a football, australian rules football forum, we had nicknamed the Oxbridge two, 'the smoothskinned boys".

some serious antipodean wildean drollery right there.

what college were they out of at Oxford anyhow? anyone?

Bojo, is actually American, might explain why is he slightly more normal

blonde Turk

I think he is this gestalt of empire, muslim and jew, and one hundred percent bojo.

born in nyc, once had eyes, designs on the other political prize as a rugrat in shorts. did not he do some early schooling in switzerland before Eton. but he parents were in manhattan when he was born, u right there.

But I dont think the family was swimming in money n aristocracy, even tho he had the best schooling

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Cameron and Clegg

yeah, i know lib dems turfed, and Bojo was never given the armchair ride...

but, in Australia on a football, australian rules football forum, we had nicknamed the Oxbridge two, 'the smoothskinned boys".

some serious antipodean wildean drollery right there.

what college were they out of at Oxford anyhow? anyone?

Cameron was at Brasenose Oxford, Clegg was at Robinson Cambridge (Osborne was at Magdalen Oxford; I know someone who was there with him, and apparently he was already a smarmy ****.)

yeah, we would call him a smarmy kernt[sic/phonetics] too in Australia, bit like the current PM of Australia, and George was the opposition leader about 12 years back wasnt he. Assume he was Eton or Harrow or Rugby or Westminster

Sir Humphrey won a classical scholarship to Winchester College before reading Classics at Baillie College, Oxford, where he got a First.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_Oxford_colleges


#aristocracy
#MuscularChristiansanythingbutreligious

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Cameron and Clegg

yeah, i know lib dems turfed, and Bojo was never given the armchair ride...

but, in Australia on a football, australian rules football forum, we had nicknamed the Oxbridge two, 'the smoothskinned boys".

some serious antipodean wildean drollery right there.

what college were they out of at Oxford anyhow? anyone?

Bojo, is actually American, might explain why is he slightly more normal

blonde Turk

I think he is this gestalt of empire, muslim and jew, and one hundred percent bojo.

born in nyc, once had eyes, designs on the other political prize as a rugrat in shorts. did not he do some early schooling in switzerland before Eton. but he parents were in manhattan when he was born, u right there.

But I dont think the family was swimming in money n aristocracy, even tho he had the best schooling

Winston Churchill's mother was American, so he's not British either.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

Being serious though, what surprises me in the limited coverage of what Bonar said is the lack of attention given to evading tests. Maybe he said stuff that hasn't been reported, but he was dishing out some very detectable substances, and he doesn't seem on the surface to be talking about testing. It all seems a bit amateurish.

Your error is in assuming doping and evading tests is hard. It's not without reason that riders seldom get caught, yet we know due to admissions that they did dope. Due tot the small dosages the detection window is smaller than people think and even when shizzle hits the fan you can always try the Williams/Armstrong method (with less theatrics^^) as a last ditch measure.

In a few days of research I could come up with a scheme that will get you past most tests and Bonar might not be the best example of the medical profession, the guy at least went to university to do a medicine study, so you'd think he could do the same thing a bit better.

Surely multimillionaire sportsmen and women could do a bit better than this goon?

Most athletes are piss-poor. Note that I do not think a Sky rider will be caught (though it's not outside the realm of possibilities considering the idiocy around sport). I also do not know Bonar is cheap (also something I doubt^^).

Doping in sport is not just Ferrari, it's also riders using over the counter stuff, back street adresses where they store blood (though I'd say that's in the past due to humanplasma/puerto), riders injecting unknown stuff, soigneurs "helping" athletes. Reading it usually strikes me as a horror idea of taking big medical risks. Who would atually tap/store blood with Fuentes? Chances of something going wrong were definitely not zero.

It's not completely rational.

But on your posts: I agree with you that the big takeway is how UKADA and the governing bodies (dis) function. The doping case itself will go nowhere for several reasons (truth of the claims is most certainly part of that, but hardly the only obstacle^^).

 

[kwikki]

I'm not sure it is that easy to evade testing positive. It is totally possible, that we know, but it requires organisation.

Remember, Dan Stevens, the dipsh1t 3rd Cat vanity doper, was caught because he refused to submit to a test. To me, that suggests he either did not follow an evasion regime either through disbelief that he would be subjected to a test, or because Bonar didn't supply one.

The reason I wonder about Bonar is that in the video he seems to brush off the banned in sport substance issue as something for the athlete to deal with, not him.

Obviously, I'm speculating here. But even though doping doctors often turn out to be low-rent shambles rather than something out of Spectre, this guy seems like more of a buffoon than most.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Being serious though, what surprises me in the limited coverage of what Bonar said is the lack of attention given to evading tests. Maybe he said stuff that hasn't been reported, but he was dishing out some very detectable substances, and he doesn't seem on the surface to be talking about testing. It all seems a bit amateurish.

Your error is in assuming doping and evading tests is hard. It's not without reason that riders seldom get caught, yet we know due to admissions that they did dope. Due tot the small dosages the detection window is smaller than people think and even when shizzle hits the fan you can always try the Williams/Armstrong method (with less theatrics^^) as a last ditch measure.

In a few days of research I could come up with a scheme that will get you past most tests and Bonar might not be the best example of the medical profession, the guy at least went to university to do a medicine study, so you'd think he could do the same thing a bit better.

Surely multimillionaire sportsmen and women could do a bit better than this goon?

Most athletes are piss-poor. Note that I do not think a Sky rider will be caught (though it's not outside the realm of possibilities considering the idiocy around sport). I also do not know Bonar is cheap (also something I doubt^^).

Doping in sport is not just Ferrari, it's also riders using over the counter stuff, back street adresses where they store blood (though I'd say that's in the past due to humanplasma/puerto), riders injecting unknown stuff, soigneurs "helping" athletes. Reading it usually strikes me as a horror idea of taking big medical risks. Who would atually tap/store blood with Fuentes? Chances of something going wrong were definitely not zero.

It's not completely rational.

exactmundo.

It's also why teams like Sky hire people like Leinders: to make sure their athletes don't glow. It's clear that some athletes will go get PEDs on their own using people like Bonar.

The doping case itself will go nowhere for several reasons (truth of the claims is most certainly part of that, but hardly the only obstacle^^).

that would depend on what else the ST have up their sleeves, wouldn't it. Some posters have suggested there's more to come.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Why not. Everyone knows that true TDF talent potential reveals itself in the TP.

I would laugh out loud the day a track rider wins the Tour, that would be unbelievable

Had already happened before Wiggo.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

Why not. Everyone knows that true TDF talent potential reveals itself in the TP.

I would laugh out loud the day a track rider wins the Tour, that would be unbelievable

Had already happened before Wiggo.

Indeed. The poster above has a short memory. Lucien PetitBreton won it in 1907, having started life as a track cyclist

 

[Franklin]

Re:

I'm not sure it is that easy to evade testing positive. It is totally possible, that we know, but it requires organisation.

In this I have a little thing up my slevve; FACTS.

1. We know riders doped, yet they never tested positive.
2. We also know quite a few of them simply used over the counter recipes they stored in the fridge.
3. We also know that atheletes in individual sports with little organisation also manage to dodge testing positive.

You will interject: But that was years ago! Problem is that there haven't been major changes in both detetcion or protocol.

So either:

You believe riders and teams suddenly had a moral awakening on the level of the apostles.
Or you accept that we probably do not know 1% of what is going on.

Remember, Dan Stevens, the dipsh1t 3rd Cat vanity doper, was caught because he refused to submit to a test. To me, that suggests he either did not follow an evasion regime either through disbelief that he would be subjected to a test, or because Bonar didn't supply one.

Doping within two weeks before race day is stupid, you dope in the run up. On the why: See your own explanations. Either Dan was an idiot, or Bonar was.

Obviously, I'm speculating here. But even though doping doctors often turn out to be low-rent shambles rather than something out of Spectre, this guy seems like more of a buffoon than most.

Sure, but it's not inconceivable at all.

The notion that they should know better? Yeah, agreed. Problem is that athletes have shown not to be that smart. If an athlete launches an idea that Bullcrapchlorateidotine is effective, you can be certain other athletes will try it out. Brains are not the decisive factor

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Why not. Everyone knows that true TDF talent potential reveals itself in the TP.

I would laugh out loud the day a track rider wins the Tour, that would be unbelievable

Had already happened before Wiggo.

Indeed. The poster above has a short memory. Lucien PetitBreton won it in 1907, having started life as a track cyclist

Lemond as well.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re: Re:

Journalists don't pay their sources for information like that.

The Sunday Times sister paper, the News of the World, was famous for it.

Yeah, they did a lot of chequebook journalism and phone hacking too. A guy like Bonar would probably say anything for money.

You are not wrong. I find the cancer patient stuff more shocking than the doping stuff, frankly.

Surely everyone does, what he did was far worse than doping even 150 elite professional athletes.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Why not. Everyone knows that true TDF talent potential reveals itself in the TP.

I would laugh out loud the day a track rider wins the Tour, that would be unbelievable

Had already happened before Wiggo.

Indeed. The poster above has a short memory. Lucien PetitBreton won it in 1907, having started life as a track cyclist

Lemond as well.

LeMond never was a track rider full time, never road the Olympics in track. Clearly your cycling knowledge is from 2012 onwards.

The last full time track rider to do well on the road pre-Wiggins, was Ferrari client Berzin.