British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars including Br

[Franklin]

Sam, you are a gem!

You don't wait for the story to land but just rip into the whistleblower and can't stop casting doubt about him. Just fantastic to see how you go at it.

 

[thehog]

Re:

The thing is the Sunday Times tip off came from Dan Stevens himself. At the end of the full-length video there's a disclaimer "The Sunday Times has no independent evidence Dr. Bonar treated the sports people he has named". So, it sounds like they might have additional video not yet public with specific athlete names or I think most likely the disclaimer is in relation to when Bonar simply says "I have worked with lots of professional athletes'.
The big question, is if Dan himself withheld names to CIRC and UKAD, but gave them to Sunday Times? If he did ,then I think it puts UKAD in much better light given that all they have is a statement from Dan about a boxer he doesn't know the name of.

Considering the Sunday Times found themselves in the exact same position with Armstrong, a disclaimer at the end of the Walsh article may have saved them million dollars over 8 years (later to be recovered).

Walsh stayed away from a Radcliffe article most likely for the same reasons.

Once bitten....

 

[thehog]

Re:

I find this is "like deja vu all over again".

Except this time it is a different set of people trying to discredit the story or the person's involved. Very much the same.

What makes anyone think that their countries or favorite athletes are above the use of PED's?

Vicente Ballester Martínez worked with Fuentes. Ever heard of him?

Which is exactly the point. Doping doctors will treat all shapes and sizes... if they pay. Neo to Pro.

 

[kwikki]

This isn't Britain's Festina moment. It isn't Britain's Puerto moment, and it isn't Britain's Oil For Drugs moment.

That moment isn't coming quite yet, so what is this? It's a private practice doctor very well informed about sporting doping practices, and clearly ready and willing to supply and manage. He's doing this because there is a market in London for his services. End of.

 

[Freddythefrog]

What happened over at that other thread ? I quite like the idea of Lord Moynihan being a counter to Lord Coe.

Coe states the media (aka the Sunday Times) have declared war on his sport and, no doubt, Sapstead in place. burying the bad news.
Moynihan wants Sapstead gone and questions whether UKAD and its management processes are fit for purpose. I know who the sports' fan is.

Sniper - loved the line of Reedie reading a Coe PR company script - superb. I could just imagine him flicking the pages over as he was asked the questions.

So in case it gets lost - the link to the petition to criminalise doping in sport in Britain. Best bit of proposed new legislation I have heard in a long time.

tinyurl.com/dopingscandal

 

[thehog]

Re:

What happened over at that other thread ? I quite like the idea of Lord Moynihan being a counter to Lord Coe.

Coe states the media (aka the Sunday Times) have declared war on his sport and, no doubt, Sapstead in place. burying the bad news.
Moynihan wants Sapstead gone and questions whether UKAD and its management processes are fit for purpose. I know who the sports' fan is.

Sniper - loved the line of Reedie reading a Coe PR company script - superb. I could just imagine him flicking the pages over as he was asked the questions.

So in case it gets lost - the link to the petition to criminalise doping in sport in Britain. Best bit of proposed new legislation I have heard in a long time.

tinyurl.com/dopingscandal

Hilarious to see that clean UK is one of the last European nations to not criminalise doping. Clearly its not important enough to actually do it. Having all of your own in sport administration gives you the power to not to have to accept bribes and brush situations like Radcliffe and a Doping Doctor under the carpet.

There is no redemption for the clean athlete denied selection or winnings by a competitor who knowingly cheats. And what is worse the cheat, with the chance of a long lasting benefit derived from an enchilada of performance enhancing drugs, knowingly shreds the dreams of clean athletes with every needle they inject.

That is why, saddened by the failure of international sports bodies, many countries ranging from New Zealand, Austria, Italy, France, and Sweden to Mexico and China have either criminalised the use of performance enhancing drugs in sport or enacted legislation that criminalises the trafficking of these drugs.

Germany is the most recent country to introduce legislation proclaiming "a declaration of war on cheaters." Under its new law, athletes found guilty of intentionally doping face fines or prison terms of up to three years. Those involved in supplying athletes with performance-enhancing substances, could face jail terms of up to 10 years. Now there are calls by Kip Keino, the head of the Kenyan National Olympic Committee, for Kenya to follow suit. Yet we in the UK have delayed and failed to introduce long overdue sport specific legislation.

The Director General of the World Anti-Doping Agency reflected last year: “I want to pose the question: should doping be a criminal matter? It is in Italy and we think - some of us - that the real deterrent that cheating athletes fear is the fear of going to prison. Not the fear of being stood down from their sport for a year, two years, four years but a fear of going to prison”.

He is right. Over the years many British Olympic athletes have taken a firm and uncompromising stance that those guilty of cheating should never again be selected to represent their country.

Here there is the opportunity for sportsmen and women; Olympians and Paralympians; coaches and sports fans to call for action and sign this Petition urging the Government to act on the calls from athletes in the UK and beyond our shores.

Politicians from across the political divide will heed the voices of our athletes and take action. If we prevaricate yet further, top level sport will continue to be transformed into competition between chemists laboratories bearing no resemblance to the objectives of the International Olympic Committee to deliver the Games between the greatest athletes in the world living out the Olympic ideals.

We have to turn to a new era of closer cooperation between Governments, athletes, sponsors and international sports federations. We owe it to clean athletes to act and to act now.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

I mentioned it yesterday here:

UKAD could have athletes banned from working with Bonar. The problem is, when they asked for evidence from Dan Stevens, he didn't know a single name. This is what they're saying. They can investigate an athlete and a Dr under their jurisdiction. To investigate just a Dr though requires the GMC.

yup it's more than my jobsworth...

so the job of policing doping in the UK can't done by the 'police'....

but people who aren't the 'police' can police it..

welcome to the zany world of international sports administration......fortunes can be made

You're are kind of spot on with this.

It's a very nuanced situation with no one single viewpoint across the whole array of vested interests. Within the current UK government there are a range of views of criminalisation of doping, with sports minister Tracy Crouch open to a discussion. Of course, UKAD are against it because it undermines their position, and they would cede ground and influence to law enforcement agencies with bigger budgets. UKAD is a minnow.

Interestingly, and for the cynics, there was a petition to government to criminalise doping after the 2012 Olympics.

Who tabled it? None other than the chairman of the British Olympic Committee (2005-12), former sports minster and ex-Olympic athlete, Lord Moynihan.

It's politics, and frankly anti-doping is way down on the agenda for a country with huge structural economic issues.

It was in response to the impression I have got from reading this thread that some people think that the issue of doping in the UK is one-dimensional. It really isn't. It's big money against small money , old boy network, and sheer political indifference to an issue that is, in the grand scheme of politics, of miniscule importance. This is how the big players are keeping a lid on it.....just.

It only needs a few more stones turned over before politicians will have to react.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

Hilarious to see that clean UK is one of the last European nations to not criminalise doping

Whilst I agree with what I think is the sentiment behind this post, it is factually totally untrue.

There are 50 nations in Europe. Of those 50 nations, only Austria, France, Italy, Spain and Germany have passed legislation that criminalises use of doping products.

Of the 50 nations in Europe, only Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, France, Greece, Hungary Iceland, Luxembourg, Norway, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Serbia, Spain and Sweden have criminalised distribution.

So the UK is not "one of the last". Not by a very long way.

Where we may agree is that the UK wants to be/is a major player in European sport, and therefore should be at the forefront of anti-doping, rather than lagging behind those who are at the forefront.

Of course, it is complicated by WADA'S stance on criminalisation of doping.

 

[Hawkwood]

Re: Re:

[/quote]
Hilarious to see that clean UK is one of the last European nations to not criminalise doping. Clearly its not important enough to actually do it. Having all of your own in sport administration gives you the power to not to have to accept bribes and brush situations like Radcliffe and a Doping Doctor under the carpet.

How many European nations have criminalised doping? One list suggests that perhaps the figure is 15 out of 50, but this probably isn't accurate. In one recent legal article I found Austria is described as one of the few countries that has criminalised doping, but I think this was `few' in the context of the world.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Skysports those unyielding truth seekers!

I chose that version because it seemed concise. The same report is in most of the papers. Skysports has changed none of the contents.

It's amusing that you prefer your news from that other Murdoch source, the Sunday Times! You are bound to think that Skysports has a different agenda. Red rag to a bull.

Bonar didn't deny it. Dailymail also published an article about Bonar last year, letting his patient die so he could get more money out of her. Does one think such a character would let people use PEDs? Not british athletes, morally superiror.!

I am not giving money to dailymail either, but neither am i quoting them for the truth.

Not sure what it requires for people to wake up to professional sports is more a business with cheating a standard part of what teams and athletes do to ensure their participation otherwise they must find employment outside of the sport.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Skysports those unyielding truth seekers!

I chose that version because it seemed concise. The same report is in most of the papers. Skysports has changed none of the contents.

It's amusing that you prefer your news from that other Murdoch source, the Sunday Times! You are bound to think that Skysports has a different agenda. Red rag to a bull.

Bonar didn't deny it. Dailymail also published an article about Bonar last year, letting his patient die so he could get more money out of her. Does one think such a character would let people use PEDs? Not british athletes, morally superiror.!

I am not giving money to dailymail either, but neither am i quoting them for the truth.

Not sure what it requires for people to wake up to professional sports is more a business with cheating a standard part of what teams and athletes do to ensure their participation otherwise they must find employment outside of the sport.

What is it that you say he didn't deny? I'm not sure what you mean.

The Daily Mail article you refer to was reporting on his disciplinary case, not yet concluded. I already posted a link to that. You don't need to pay to read it. If the tweets reported on today are actually from him he has denied having anything to do with premiership footballers or clubs, even though that was partly the basis of his boasts to have supplied 150 athletes/sportspersons with drugs.

I agree this guy is capable of anything dishonest, supplying drugs included. As the saying goes, I would not touch him with a bargepole. But I'm more interested in what he actually did than in what he claimed to have done and now finds it convenient partially to deny. I think that goes for a lot of people.

 

[Benotti69]

No one would touch Leinders with a bargepole....oh wait.....

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

No one would touch Leinders with a bargepole....oh wait.....

I asked you what you previously meant. Care to share?

 

[thehog]

Re:

No one would touch Leinders with a bargepole....oh wait.....

Its rather good point. Seemingly we are meant to believe Leinders was hired to treat saddle sores but Dr. Bonar’s claims should not be trusted

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

No one would touch Leinders with a bargepole....oh wait.....

Its rather good point. Seemingly we are meant to believe Leinders was hired to treat saddle sores but Dr. Bonar’s claims should not be trusted

UKAD were right on top of that case, too, weren't they.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

No one would touch Leinders with a bargepole....oh wait.....

Its rather good point. Seemingly we are meant to believe Leinders was hired to treat saddle sores but Dr. Bonar’s claims should not be trusted

UKAD were right on top of that case, too, weren't they.

UKAD are busy testing Russian athletes and declaring all the UK athletes training in Kenya as cleans.

 

[Catwhoorg]

The press cycle dictates that there will likely be more already written for next Sunday.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes, but I do think most of what he said is idle boasting, and many of his claims about "sportspeople" will be proven false.

Best case scenario he shops everyone to the authorities, in return for NOT being struck off.

He does deserve jail time though, for some of his none-doping stuff.

 

[thehog]

Re:

The press cycle dictates that there will likely be more already written for next Sunday.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes, but I do think most of what he said is idle boasting, and many of his claims about "sportspeople" will be proven false.

Best case scenario he shops everyone to the authorities, in return for NOT being struck off.

He does deserve jail time though, for some of his none-doping stuff.

How would it be proven false?

What you mean is there will be a lack of a paper trail to prove that there was doping of the said athletes. Nothing would actually be proven.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Re: Re:

Cant go into detail but a little birdy tells me there is more to come re this story and this is the first salvo... we shall see.

Re Team Sky...should *** hit there don`t discount Murdock,s media empire " throwing under the bus" anyone it see,s fit. Plausible deniability of any knowledge of any wrongdoing go,s a long way
No matter what materializes they are far to big to be concerned...heck the empire is so powerful they pretty much decide who gets into power in UK general elections.
The pro team is about 2% of Sky UK’s marketing budget...small change .

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

The press cycle dictates that there will likely be more already written for next Sunday.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes, but I do think most of what he said is idle boasting, and many of his claims about "sportspeople" will be proven false.

Best case scenario he shops everyone to the authorities, in return for NOT being struck off.

He does deserve jail time though, for some of his none-doping stuff.

Actually that would not work. He has enough to worry about with his existing malpractice tribunal case (the cancer patient)! No, he won't be saved from that.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

The press cycle dictates that there will likely be more already written for next Sunday.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes, but I do think most of what he said is idle boasting, and many of his claims about "sportspeople" will be proven false.

Best case scenario he shops everyone to the authorities, in return for NOT being struck off.

He does deserve jail time though, for some of his none-doping stuff.

How would it be proven false?

What you mean is there will be a lack of a paper trail to prove that there was doping of the said athletes. Nothing would actually be proven.

How about "shown to be hot air and boasting/self-promotion" ?

 

[kwikki]

Re:

The press cycle dictates that there will likely be more already written for next Sunday.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes, but I do think most of what he said is idle boasting, and many of his claims about "sportspeople" will be proven false.

Best case scenario he shops everyone to the authorities, in return for NOT being struck off

It wouldn't work like that, it's the General Medical Council who regulate physicians, and they would not be interested in knowing who he doped.

For what it's worth, he'll likely be struck off next week for totally unrelated issues.

 

[peloton]

Not sure if already posted, but here is the English version
http://www.sportschau.de/doping/video-british-doctor-claims-he-doped-numerous-athletes-englische-version-100.html

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

The press cycle dictates that there will likely be more already written for next Sunday.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes, but I do think most of what he said is idle boasting, and many of his claims about "sportspeople" will be proven false.

Best case scenario he shops everyone to the authorities, in return for NOT being struck off.

He does deserve jail time though, for some of his none-doping stuff.

How would it be proven false?

What you mean is there will be a lack of a paper trail to prove that there was doping of the said athletes. Nothing would actually be proven.

How about "shown to be hot air and boasting/self-promotion" ?

How would that be shown? Historically speaking, do doping Doctors reveal their client lists?

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Extraordinary allegations require extraordinary evidence.