Brits don't dope?

[bobbins]

This thread really is plumbing the depths. locking and deleting is well overdue.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I'm not sure what the point is here but from what I can tell so far - "Brits don't dope" the thread topic is false in my opinion.

To be very fair Most Merikans who might have a clue who David Walsh is would suspect he was British and they would not have a clue he is Irish.

It's called 'Brits don't dope?' with a question mark. I think the question mark makes the difference in that it's not a statement that 'Brits don't dope', but a facetious question.

Clearly Brits do dope,

It's taken many years, but im glad you finally aknowledge this.

My point is we're no better or worse than any other country

And you are right on that.

Thing is though, that right there IS the clinic view. I dont know where you got the idea from that the clinic is a group that thinks all British people are bad in the same way patriots think all British people are good. Judging by your repeated use of "empire crew" which is something only Blackcat says, it seems to be one poster.

We are almost all post nationalist. We don't care where someone is from. It's all people.

The dishonest people at the top of British sport aren't dishonest because they are British but because they are corrupt, morally and literarly. These people exist everywhere in the world.

there are some very bad and corrupt hombres in the Italian and Spanish federations and there is corruption there and there are journos every bit as bad as the British ones.

Our while argument all along has been precisely this, in the face of small number of people, behind a slightly larger number of accounts, who insist that sociological realities don't apply to their country

Sorry but while that's a lovely story and you may believe that applies to yourself, that is certainly not my experience of posting here for several years. The term 'empire crew' was merely a symbol, there are many occurrences of prejudice towards the British on this board. During the 2012 Olympics is was particularly virulent. Also huge amounts of misinformation, stereotyping, Brit bashing, Brit baiting and general demonising of British morals and motives, as pervasive if not more so than anyone posting on here about British superiority, which actually I can't really remember seeing. Often those posters are referred to in absentia, apparently reside over at bikeradar or some other forum, but used to justify whichever diatribe the poster in the mood for about British culture, people or sportsman. And as shown by the fact both DW and Hog have said David Walsh is British, those diatribes are often based on complete ignorance.

And I've never said 'Brits don't dope'. Ever.

Sad to see your posting style is still limited to just constantly playing a pretty weak victim card.

No surprise to see no actual examples of all this fervent anti Britishness in the clinic.

(ps, quick reminder that about half of all those who call out sky's bs are British themselves. You always ignore that point).

 

[JimmyFingers]

What has this to do with calling out those nasty bullies Sky? Something you casually accused them of on the other thread and then hopped on the old tailwind home when I asked you to show where Sky are bullies?

Ask MartinGT about this board's attitude to the British, one of the British posters that are anti-Sky. I remember him getting as fed up as me anbd telling your lot to cut it out very fiercely, as it had got completely out of control.

But no, I'm not going to dredge through the forum to find it, perhaps I will when you show me an example of Sky bullying.

As for examples, this thread is the example. The facetious title is an example. I don't jump to your tune Hitch, I'm no victim and your bombast and brow-beating doesn't work with me.

 

[MarkvW]

Re:

What has this to do with calling out those nasty bullies Sky? Something you casually accused them of on the other thread and then hopped on the old tailwind home when I asked you to show where Sky are bullies?

Ask MartinGT about this board's attitude to the British, one of the British posters that are anti-Sky. I remember him getting as fed up as me anbd telling your lot to cut it out very fiercely, as it had got completely out of control.

But no, I'm not going to dredge through the forum to find it, perhaps I will when you show me an example of Sky bullying.

As for examples, this thread is the example. The facetious title is an example. I don't jump to your tune Hitch, I'm no victim and your bombast and brow-beating doesn't work with me.

I haven't heard of Sky-bullying. That is just another slur upon the Glorious British Empire! Someone, quick! Please queue up 'God Save the Queen.'

 

[Irondan]

The topic of this thread is not being discussed and hasn't been for awhile.

Either it gets back to the topic or it gets locked down.

I'm sorry it's come down to this but it's getting really out of hand here.

 

[Avoriaz]

Re: Re:

...he often drew the conclusion first then tried to find evidence to match

Aren't most clinic threads based on this technique?

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

...........is that not the basis for much scientific investigation..........LOL hoggy

Mark L

Actually, it's the complete opposite of scientific investigation...

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

White Anglo-Saxon Protestants

Oh. Someone obviously forgot to give the Maoris the memo.

Its also an American term and doesn't fit well at all in the terms of rugby. I think we can all agree the powerhouses are the three Southern Hemisphere teams. As for the French, in rugby they have always made their own luck.

It's actually a sociological term define by American cultural Marxists out of Columbia university who were looking to displace the American ruling class. It is an apposite term to describe the same ruling classes in other parts of the former British Empire. Rugby and Cricket have traditionally played a unique role in defining that ruling class.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re: Re:

White Anglo-Saxon Protestants

Oh. Someone obviously forgot to give the Maoris the memo.

Its also an American term and doesn't fit well at all in the terms of rugby. I think we can all agree the powerhouses are the three Southern Hemisphere teams. As for the French, in rugby they have always made their own luck.

It's actually a sociological term define by American cultural Marxists out of Columbia university who were looking to displace the American ruling class. It is an apposite term to describe the same ruling classes in other parts of the former British Empire. Rugby and Cricket have traditionally played a unique role in defining that ruling class.

I think 'unique role' is a stretch, and as I pointed out, the three Southern Hemisphere teams are the most dominant, and you couldn't describe them as WASPs, especially South Africa, whose rugby players have been traditionally Afrikaans. New Zealand draws a lot on the Maoris and Pacific Islanders to bolster its ranks. Not too sure about Australia. In England certainly it is the sport of the public schools (i.e. private schools) as opposed to Comprehensive schools where football holds sway. However you wouldn't say the same for Wales, where it is more of a working man's sport, or Ireland. Not too sure about Scotland, there may be a similar divide to England.

Of course Ireland, Scotland and Wales are largely Celts, so not Anglo-Saxon at all. Ireland is also catholic.

As i said describing rugby as a WASP sport is a difficult fit.

 

[Lyon]

Re:

I don't think nationality comes into it, or even personality. Some are clean - some aren't (this group is possibly a bigger number).

Most posters here probably agree on the nationality part, if not the personality one. Personally I believe that taking nationality out of the equation is simplifying the matter. Nationality and personality is intertwined. Also, there is such a thing as national character. It is faintly visible in modern sports but it is there.

Even while being part of a rare breed of Norwegian cynics, I still believe that Norwegian cyclists are less likely to use drugs than cyclists from certain other nations. I also believe that when they do decide to use drugs (and they do, eventually), they use less than cyclists from certain other nations. It is simply the Norwegian way never to go full ***. Everything within measures but follow the leader. Of course, there are exceptions.

Similarly, I believe that, for a certain time, everything that we now like to make fun of the British fan for believing in really did exist, within amateur sport. But Britain is not what it once was and neither is the British (and neither is Norway and the Norwegians).

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

The difference is between investigating and only looking for evidence that matches the hypothesis (which implies that you disregard evidence that may disprove the hypothesis)

 

[King Boonen]

Re: for sure.....

...........is that not the basis for much scientific investigation..........LOL hoggy

Mark L

Actually, it's the complete opposite of scientific investigation...

really?...............i think of that hadron collider looking for particles that scientists predict to exist etc

Mark L

Really. Testing a hypothesis is very, very, very different to confirming a conclusion. I never attempt to pull rank on here, I think it pretty much never serves any purpose if a post is well reasoned, but on this I can guarantee you are confusing two very different things.

 

[Irondan]

You see this quite often being wheeled out implicitly in the media (Harmon etc), by fans, riders etc.

'Britain doesn't have a culture of doping, unlike Europe.'

'In Britain people play by the rules'

'I'd be crucified if I doped so I would never'

And variations on this theme - McQuaid's comments on the Anglo-Saxon world etc.

And of course the view that Spain, Eastern Europe etc are dopers paradises etc

To paraphrase the infamous Tory party quote that 'Wogs begin at Calais' it seems that for many people 'dopers begin at Calais'.

Is there any evidence of Britain having a specifically stringent drug testing which means that anyone so much as thinking of doping gets popped?

The UK has not had any major scandals such as Puerto, Festina, USP - is that absence of evidence (of doping), or evidence of absence (of doping)?

Noting that most large scale busts have involved law enforcement. Is it that UK police simply don't have any interest in anti-doping investigations considering it to the sporting matter (and besides for them there are more important things to do like public shows of force against hippies, students and brown people)

Does it actually hold up that there is an 'anti-doping culture' in UK sport given the track record of cycling in the UK - Simpson, Yates, Millar, numerous track and field, the lack of testing in football, rugby etc

Why go with this line? Is it a line to sell to the nationalists to get to jump onto the bandwagon, to sell a few more copies of your book in W.H.Smith to the Blue Rinse brigade? Does anyone sane and rational actually believe that Brits don't dope - or does believing the latter make the former an impossibility?

It seems that this line is very profitable.

 

[buckle]

wRe: Re:

White Anglo-Saxon Protestants

Oh. Someone obviously forgot to give the Maoris the memo.

Its also an American term and doesn't fit well at all in the terms of rugby. I think we can all agree the powerhouses are the three Southern Hemisphere teams. As for the French, in rugby they have always made their own luck.

It's actually a sociological term define by American cultural Marxists out of Columbia university who were looking to displace the American ruling class. It is an apposite term to describe the same ruling classes in other parts of the former British Empire. Rugby and Cricket have traditionally played a unique role in defining that ruling class.

I think 'unique role' is a stretch, and as I pointed out, the three Southern Hemisphere teams are the most dominant, and you couldn't describe them as WASPs, especially South Africa, whose rugby players have been traditionally Afrikaans. New Zealand draws a lot on the Maoris and Pacific Islanders to bolster its ranks. Not too sure about Australia. In England certainly it is the sport of the public schools (i.e. private schools) as opposed to Comprehensive schools where football holds sway. However you wouldn't say the same for Wales, where it is more of a working man's sport, or Ireland. Not too sure about Scotland, there may be a similar divide to England.

Of course Ireland, Scotland and Wales are largely Celts, so not Anglo-Saxon at all. Ireland is also catholic.

As i said describing rugby as a WASP sport is a difficult fit.

Rugby in Ireland and Scotland has traditionally been more elitist than in England. Look at the word Ireland, it doesn't recognise Irish independence i.e. as in it is played in schools founded before partition.

 

[The Carrot]

Brits don't need to dope. The only advantage they require in order to spank those naughty Ruskies at the Olympics is Lottery Funding.

 

[Benotti69]

Jon Snow on Channel 4 (uk) grilled Coe.

https://twitter.com/SSbike/status/663824681733091328

 

[The Carrot]

Re:

Jon Snow on Channel 4 (uk) grilled Coe.

https://twitter.com/SSbike/status/663824681733091328

Excellent stuff from there from Jon Snow, asking the blatantly obvious questions others won't.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Brits don't need to dope. The only advantage they require in order to spank those naughty Ruskies at the Olympics is Lottery Funding.

True, those hard working brits have been cheated out of many medals. Look who is back to being the #1 spokesperson against doping

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/663829919294705664

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Brits don't need to dope. The only advantage they require in order to spank those naughty Ruskies at the Olympics is Lottery Funding.

True, those hard working brits have been cheated out of many medals. Look who is back to being the #1 spokesperson against doping

https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/663829919294705664

It's a shame. It's not a day for any athlete to pretend it was someone else. If she was looking to lead the way perhaps she could release all that confusing blood data.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Jon Snow on Channel 4 (uk) grilled Coe.

https://twitter.com/SSbike/status/663824681733091328

Was pathetic with Froome though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuWvIMFycmc

"is doping dead"
"yes its dead. Cycling has moved on"
Ok then.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Re:

Jon Snow on Channel 4 (uk) grilled Coe.

https://twitter.com/SSbike/status/663824681733091328

Was pathetic with Froome though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuWvIMFycmc

What the hell? The abysmal nature of that interview is rivaled only by Snow's choice in ties.

Snow: We're all intrigued by the role that your Kenyan childhood plays in your success. Have you got very big lungs? Is it about growing up in a very high altitude?

Froome: Ha ha ha...good question, I'm not sure. It's um...yeah, who knows, who knows.

 

[buckle]

The British fantasy is to expel all countries from the Olympics apart from themselves. This in effect happened about twenty or so years ago following an African boycott of the Commonwealth games and everyone had a great time as England won every gold. Funniest championships I can remember.

 

[The Carrot]

You see this quite often being wheeled out implicitly in the media (Harmon etc), by fans, riders etc.

'Britain doesn't have a culture of doping, unlike Europe.'

'In Britain people play by the rules'

'I'd be crucified if I doped so I would never'

And variations on this theme - McQuaid's comments on the Anglo-Saxon world etc.

And of course the view that Spain, Eastern Europe etc are dopers paradises etc

To paraphrase the infamous Tory party quote that 'Wogs begin at Calais' it seems that for many people 'dopers begin at Calais'.

Is there any evidence of Britain having a specifically stringent drug testing which means that anyone so much as thinking of doping gets popped?

The UK has not had any major scandals such as Puerto, Festina, USP - is that absence of evidence (of doping), or evidence of absence (of doping)?

Noting that most large scale busts have involved law enforcement. Is it that UK police simply don't have any interest in anti-doping investigations considering it to the sporting matter (and besides for them there are more important things to do like public shows of force against hippies, students and brown people)

Does it actually hold up that there is an 'anti-doping culture' in UK sport given the track record of cycling in the UK - Simpson, Yates, Millar, numerous track and field, the lack of testing in football, rugby etc

Why go with this line? Is it a line to sell to the nationalists to get to jump onto the bandwagon, to sell a few more copies of your book in W.H.Smith to the Blue Rinse brigade? Does anyone sane and rational actually believe that Brits don't dope - or does believing the latter make the former an impossibility?

Another reason that UK police don't have any interest in anti-doping themselves is because most very senior police officers have knighthoods (or want them) and so they really don't want to rock the boat that might contain some famous sporting peeps.

 

[Savant12]

You see this quite often being wheeled out implicitly in the media (Harmon etc), by fans, riders etc.

'Britain doesn't have a culture of doping, unlike Europe.'

'In Britain people play by the rules'

'I'd be crucified if I doped so I would never'

And variations on this theme - McQuaid's comments on the Anglo-Saxon world etc.

And of course the view that Spain, Eastern Europe etc are dopers paradises etc

To paraphrase the infamous Tory party quote that 'Wogs begin at Calais' it seems that for many people 'dopers begin at Calais'.

Is there any evidence of Britain having a specifically stringent drug testing which means that anyone so much as thinking of doping gets popped?

The UK has not had any major scandals such as Puerto, Festina, USP - is that absence of evidence (of doping), or evidence of absence (of doping)?

Noting that most large scale busts have involved law enforcement. Is it that UK police simply don't have any interest in anti-doping investigations considering it to the sporting matter (and besides for them there are more important things to do like public shows of force against hippies, students and brown people)

Does it actually hold up that there is an 'anti-doping culture' in UK sport given the track record of cycling in the UK - Simpson, Yates, Millar, numerous track and field, the lack of testing in football, rugby etc

Why go with this line? Is it a line to sell to the nationalists to get to jump onto the bandwagon, to sell a few more copies of your book in W.H.Smith to the Blue Rinse brigade? Does anyone sane and rational actually believe that Brits don't dope - or does believing the latter make the former an impossibility?

Another reason that UK police don't have any interest in anti-doping themselves is because most very senior police officers have knighthoods (or want them) and so they really don't want to rock the boat that might contain some famous sporting peeps.

They are/were also really good at turning a blind-eye or covering-up any hint of a wide-spread scandal e.g. child abuse, forming that concerned the nations' politicians and other elites.

 

[gillan1969]

Funnily enough Eilish Mccolgan's responses seem the most believable yet..in terms of doping...

"No wonder athletes cheat...one injury from being a clean, hard working athlete and support is cut" after losing her funding

and unlike the esteemed Paula...she wasn't surprised by the WADA report

"I am not particularly shocked about this," said McColgan, 24.
"A lot of the athletes are aware Russia does have a problem. It is great that it is coming out because we can try to wipe it out now and start afresh."
McColgan, who has been out of action since January when she broke her ankle, says that doping in athletics "goes a lot deeper than just Russia" but she feels that improved testing is having a positive, though limited effect.