Brits don't dope?

[wrinklyvet]

The answer is never simple. You can't even agree to the things on which we agree.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
This has been born out many times. UKAD ignoring Dr Bonar, assisting Armistead, letting Yates off with a 4 month ban...........

I think they even brought a legal case against Dan Stevens. That's what you get in the UK for blowing the whistle.
Not to mention UKAD's Linda McCartney investigation announced three years ago or so.
I reckon the delay is due to the fact that they can investigate more efficiently when nobody knows about it.
A bit like how they announced IC testing through twitter; and then claimed it was because they could then target test the athletes who don't show up at the race.

 

[gillan1969]

Domination

You can explain Wiggin's ridiculous GT career without reference to doping???????????

...groundhog day indeed for some

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Go on say it, we know you want to, it easy, repeat after me "Never tested positive".

My guess is you check every day. In July it was your every one a year July post, please try and be consistent, say like TeamGB and post to a program.

The clinic 12 are obese 10 year olds sitting in their mom's basement in their underware. Wiggins wet dream!

And yet the sports culture to dope has not changed. Heck, when we look at Britain's Olympians and who they train with i think the clinic are doing quite well in comparison.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

[quote="
You are missing or twisting the point, of course. Is metaphor and simile a problem?

I refer, of course, merely to the inability to change - an unwillingness to be converted to another view. It is not something that will happen big time in any direction.

You know full well that I do not refer to any aspect of sport or cycling as a religion, though when I am on my bike it could be a temptation.

I see you have no ideas that would help any change to achieve a situation where never failing a dope test points to a presumption of cleanliness. No, of course not, because neither Cookson not anyone else will be able to create such an environment. It is pie in the sky and a big stick to beat sports and doping control administrators, because they will never reach that summit, however much they improve.

That no longer works wrinkley and you well know it. The testing is a joke, never mind what the Russians, USA, and China do to cover up their own athletes, so to claim never failing a dope tests proves ones cleanliness has been debunked long time ago by such examples as Marion Jones, Armstrong and all those caught with retro testing who have long retired from sport.

A very weak argument to make in 2016, "never tested positive", laughable.

What "no longer works?"

I see you agree with me that an improvement in testing and administration will never satisfy anyone because it can always be stated that X was lucky and just defeated the system, or the system was inadequate. On that we do not have any argument.

They can do what they like to improve the system but the lack of confidence will always remain. Did I say otherwise?

for example, If whistleblowers received the right accordance to their status, that would provide anti-doping with information that would be up to date and assist testing, but the system is broken from the top down.

As Adam Meyerson said, burn it to the ground and start again. Wont happen. "Sport is seriously broken" and according to Jack Robertson the fault lies at the feet of the likes of Coe, Reedie, and all those former athletes who now rape the sport for their own financial gain.

So in this environment, we ask how did TeamGB win so many golds in a system so broken?

How does Froome transform from ziz zagging up mountains to blowing everyone away?

How did Wiggins go from years in the Gruppetto to a year long peak and then back to the grupetto?

The answer is simple.

The answer is cheating and one of the forms of cheating is doping, it could be motor doping, but it is cheating and collusion/corruption at the highest levels.

This has been born out many times. UKAD ignoring Dr Bonar, assisting Armistead, letting Yates off with a 4 month ban...........

Ok, then explain Leinders time at Sky miraculously coinciding with Wigans taking another jump in form and Froome going from pack fill to impersonating Pantani

 

[Mayo from Mayo]

Sir Bradley has his say on Ms Armistead.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/09/bradley-wiggins-lizzie-armitstead-no-excuse


Pot Kettle

 

[Benotti69]

Sir Bradley has his say on Ms Armistead.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/09/bradley-wiggins-lizzie-armitstead-no-excuse


Pot Kettle

Wiggins getting his dig in. Might come back and bite him.

Fuuny how he says it is impossible to blood dope! Since when?

 

[BullsFan22]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/37371057

 

[Benotti69]

Sir Bradley has his say on Ms Armistead.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/09/bradley-wiggins-lizzie-armitstead-no-excuse


Pot Kettle

Wiggins getting his dig in. Might come back and bite him.

Fuuny how he says it is impossible to blood dope! Since when?

Wonder will Matt Brammier or Lizzie Armistead have something to say about Wiggins lies.......... :Neutral:

 

[Benotti69]

Cycling covers about 20% of GB Olympic gold medals since 2004. Wiggins medalled at every games and Brailsford was High Performance director '03-'14.

And people were upset Russia were doping. Hmmmm!!!

Dr Freeman who was the doctor for Wiggins 2012 amazing season still works for TeamGB. State (via lottery funding) sponsored doping......

 

[heart_attack_man]

Sir Bradley has his say on Ms Armistead.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/09/bradley-wiggins-lizzie-armitstead-no-excuse


Pot Kettle

I just read this article with some degree of Schadenfreude. Hilarious!

He mentions here that he doesn't want to go and stack shelves at Sainsbury's. He's mentioned in another article how he would rather go and stack shelves at Tesco than dope.

Not sure what it is with Wiggo and shelf-stacking...?

 

[Lyon]

Sir Bradley has his say on Ms Armistead.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/09/bradley-wiggins-lizzie-armitstead-no-excuse


Pot Kettle

I just read this article with some degree of Schadenfreude. Hilarious!

He mentions here that he doesn't want to go and stack shelves at Sainsbury's. He's mentioned in another article how he would rather go and stack shelves at Tesco than dope.

Not sure what it is with Wiggo and shelf-stacking...?

He certainly entertains the idea of being well stacked. Understandably, really, when you are that skinny.

 

[Benotti69]

Dr Richard Freeman, works for TeamGB cycling. Learned a lot from Geert Leinders at Sky. Look at Britain's olympic track success since Leinders came to Sky and taught Freeman a lot. TeamGb target Olympics, every 4 years....it is a cocktail of Cortisone and other undetectables......since Leinders came to Sky, Britain have walked the track at the olympics and made everyone else look 2nd rate!

 

[Benotti69]

Callum Skinner blogging his asthma records.

http://www.callumskinner.com/blog/2016/9/26/medical-records

After you Sir Wiggins............but i wont hold my breath, might need a shot of Kenacort.....

 

[heart_attack_man]

Re:

Callum Skinner blogging his asthma records.

http://www.callumskinner.com/blog/2016/9/26/medical-records

After you Sir Wiggins............but i wont hold my breath, might need a shot of Kenacort.....

Absolutely sensational, and exactly what you would expect from someone with an ACTUAL history of Asthma or an ongoing medical condition. I agree - I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Callum Skinner blogging his asthma records.

http://www.callumskinner.com/blog/2016/9/26/medical-records

After you Sir Wiggins............but i wont hold my breath, might need a shot of Kenacort.....

Absolutely sensational, and exactly what you would expect from someone with an ACTUAL history of Asthma or an ongoing medical condition. I agree - I won't be holding my breath.

Yep. I dont sense any big embarrassment/shame from Skinner either.

Let's see how many others follow suit.

 

[Franklin]

Re:

Callum Skinner blogging his asthma records.

http://www.callumskinner.com/blog/2016/9/26/medical-records

After you Sir Wiggins............but i wont hold my breath, might need a shot of Kenacort.....

Okay, now that's absolutely the superbe way to defend yourself.

And this also is bothering me about Bradleys TUE, did he ever get a TUE for Salbutamol or some other more common treatment of Asthma? As far as I can see there's an immediate step towards the nuclear option, which is quite crazy (=flatout unbelievable).

 

[Catwhoorg]

Yes he did have salbutamol TUEs from the time when that was necessary (3 of those IIRC which are not contentious)

 

[Franklin]

I should have checked my self, sorry Catwhoorgh

Bradley Wiggins

• 13 June 2008 - salbutamol (200ug inhalation dosage, as needed for 12-month period)
  12 December 2008 - salbutamol (inhalation dosage, as needed for 12-month period)
  16 December [2009?]- salbutamol (two puff dosage twice a day for 12-month period), formoterol (two puff dosage twice a day for 12-month period) and budesonide (inhalation dosage twice a day for 12 month period)
  26 June 2011 – triamcinolone acetonide (50mg intramuscular dosage, one time injection)
  29 June 2011 - triamcinolone acetonide (50mg intramuscular dosage, one time injection)
  April 2013 - triamcinolone acetonide (50mg intramuscular dosage, one time injection)

Okay... 2008/2009 somewhat normal treatment (somewhat as it's all year long, which is more common allergy than hayfever. But as with myself, the former usually also implies the latter, so that's nitpicking)..

In 2010 Budesonide (Steroid) and Formoterol are introduced. The latter also leads to weight loss

But in 2011 the normal procedure goes overboard and it's stepped up towards triamcinolone acetonide.

Big question marks:

1. If he needed Salbutamol daily all year long, why did that stop in 2011? It obviously did not affect his results. OTOH, just before the TdF they resorted to triamcinolone acetonide.
2. What medicinal approach was followed in 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016?
3. What did he use before 2008?

If he's allergic (could be, who knows), we are still missing the complete picture. I see a person who needs Salbutamol on a daily basis to having his best season without it, to suddenly (during that succes year) going for a Steroid injection.

As this is not the complete TUE list, do we miss TUE's? I would expect the Salbutamol to be present during all those years?

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

That makes Wiggins defense a tad more plausible. It's still quite the drug they used which makes it rather "odd", but it's a better place to start from than out of the blue, which was my initial impression.

Not really. If Wiggins wants to be seen as plausible he has to match Skinner.

But Wiggins won a GT, le tour, and testing is still an IQ test rather than an anti-doping test. He had Reedie, Sapstead and McQuaid backing him. He has done everything he doping predecessors have done, hide PED use, call doubters names, not been transparent, transformed his performances etc etc....

Nope, plausibility and Wiggins performance aint possible.

 

[Franklin]

I said "a tad" more plausible, not that it was plausible

Now that I listed his Tue the word plausible is still not foremost on my mind *understatement*. If anything it makes me really curious about how one can go from daily Salbutamol to none (but that might be me missing some info).

 

[Catwhoorg]

The lack of later salbutamol TUEs is related to the change in their status, upto a certain specified level in blood/urine is allowed without a TUE.

Use does have to be declared on the doping control form though.

 

[Franklin]

Re:

The lack of later salbutamol TUEs is related to the change in their status, upto a certain specified level in blood/urine is allowed without a TUE.

Use does have to be declared on the doping control form though.

Okay, that explains that part, the lack of info on more mundane anti-allergy medication it had been bothering me for awhile.

So Wiggins story is not utterly impossible. Still a rather peculiar drug regimen (to say the least), still against everything claimed by him and the team.

The problem in matching Callum is that someone can indeed develop allergies and Asthmatic bronchitis overnight (I did...), so even if he can only come up with doctor's attest since 2009 he still could be truthful (though why the subject never came up before would be rather odd).

Note that I am quite convinced it's nothing more than a good old TUE abuse for performance enhancement goals, but it seems he could manage to cook up a solid defense by hiring some experts.

I wonder how this one will develop.

 

[Rob27172]

The bigger question is surely what was it that was wrong with him in 2011

Now if they really were TUE requests for 2 injections so close together and the medication is only being used in the absolute benefit of the health of the athlete the doctor on the prescription or the team management should be up in front of some sort of tribunal

For him to be THAT ill that he needed the two injections and for the team to still allow him to ride and for the doctor to allow him to ride would be crazy.
No one involved in that decision could claim the two things can sit side by side

You are an elite athlete and you need a VERY severe medicine to treat what must have been a VERY severe respiratory ailment
But hey go race the tour it will be fine for you after your lungs have just been almost destroyed by that ridiculous breathing issue you just had.

Those two statements do not add up

Hey mr elite cyclist your fat you need to lose some weight if you want to win
Take this it will help shred weight and increase power, we will get a TUE for it signed off by the dodgy doctor on the payroll

Now those two sentences can make a lot more sense.

 

[Franklin]

The thing is... in his own words it wasn't exactly accute... the whole thing got rolling through the team management/doctors.

BW: Yeah, I – I really struggled in that period. June-July is – is the worst period for that. April, June, July, right- right through those months, and I was having problems. And, you know, when you win the race three weeks out from the Tour de France, and I did on the Dauphiné Libere, you know, you’re the favourite for the Tour de France, the team, the Team team, the Team Sky, you know, you have the medical team there, everyone – there’s coaches checking everything’s kind, Bradley you’re on track here, you’re – you’re the favourite to win this race, now we need to make sure the next three weeks is – is there anything we can help with at the moment? Well, I’m still struggling with this breathing last week. I know it didn’t look like it but I – I kind of really – is there anything else you can do just to make sure that I don’t – I don’t – this doesn’t become an issue into a three-week race at the height of the season? And in turn I take that medical advice.

They did it as some sort of precaution. Worse, the medicin was on the advice of the team, not a normal doctor (who would not prescribe this drug).

So even if we go with his story, it's quite a bending of the rules then and there.