Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[Ferminal]

Look, I can still accept the possibility that Evans has / does dope. But lets look at what we know:

1. Pre 2009 WT Evans raced timidly.
2. The UCI Biological Passport was introduced in 2009.
3. Post Evans 2009 WT win he seemed to transform from a 'wheel sucker' to a rider who took responsibility when racing.
4. 2011 TDF: It was very obvious climbing speeds were reduced - Voeckler.
5. He is geting older now and is past his prime.

Yes Evans raced less timidly after his WT win but knowing his competition was cleaner may have helped in that regard.

I remember pre 2011 TDF Evans spoke very confidently on his chances. I felt he was unrealistic knowing what Contador did to the competition at the Giro that year. Maybe Evans was aware AC was targeted due to his 2010 Tour positive and would be lowering his doping for the TDF?

The variation in Evans performances over time can just as easily be explained by factors other than doping. If you are a supremely aerobically talented clean athlete and they make your sport cleaner than of course the talented but clean athlete is going to look better plus is going to have more confidence in his racing knowing his competition has less "assistance".

A lot on here think Oxygen vector doping gives huge improvement. That depends on what you consider to be "huge". From everything I have read the real improvement is actually between 5 and 15%. The variation in elite athlete aerobic capacity (threshold power) can easily be more than 10% pre doping. There is some overlap. Then his recent decline can easily be explained as age related not dope related.

1. That has no influence on climbing and TTing ability needed to win a GT. He climbs exactly the same and still manages to blow up in 2014 like it's 2007.

2. And? In that year, Contador Valverde and Menchov won GTs Cobo, Horner, Scarponi, etc.

3. Again, has no bearing on absolute performance though probably helped him get more stage wins.

4. Yep... Evans' climbing speeds were well down on 2005-2007. Though I'm not sure why you use a ballistic doper like Voeckler as your benchmark...

5. His prime recovery was 2011, so like I say, it happened overnight. And it's recovery we're talking about as he is still very good for a few days to a week e.g. Corsica, Dauphine and Tour Week 1 2012. Giro Week 1 2013. Trentino, Giro Week 1 2014.

 

[perfessor]

Some of you still think Evans won the tour clean?
That's a rhetorical question, btw, no need to reply.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Some of you still think Evans won the tour clean?
That's a rhetorical question, btw, no need to reply.

Anyone who believes Froome won clean had better believe Cadel won clean.

Personally don't believe either won clean.

 

[42x16ss]

Anyone who thinks Evans is clean seriously needs to rewatch the '07 Tour. Kept his losses down against a FR Chicken, nearly beat the charging Contador supported by a blood doped team mate in the form of his life, while smashing the two TT's (only beaten by two of the most blatant top ups in history) all with the weakest team of any contender

Yeah, I'm sure he's clean...

 

[blackcat]

cleaner.

whether that is all rhetoric, and in the scheme of things means jack, is another question.

clean or not. its absolute.

 

[blackcat]

Not going into all the details, but this is maybe not all we know.

There is ferrari: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...says-cadel-evans/story-fn8sc2wz-1226501021846

The guy who sent evans to Ferrari, Ex doper Rominger who was coached by Ferrari. And who beside Evans, also was the manager of a couple of other dopers, including Wonder Vino
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rominger-denies-ferrari-money-laundering-links

And of course you could have a look at: Team history, the era Evans was a part of and so on. Just to add to your list with Evans facts.

havent read all this yet, but i was of the opinion, that Ferrari owned part of Rominger's cycling representation agency, which TR went to sell to IMG close to a decade back.

this may well be apocryphal, and Ferrari never had a cut of the Rominger agency.

Ofcourse, they sold out to IMG a looooong time back

 

[blackcat]

Not going into all the details, but this is maybe not all we know.

There is ferrari: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...says-cadel-evans/story-fn8sc2wz-1226501021846

The guy who sent evans to Ferrari, Ex doper Rominger who was coached by Ferrari. And who beside Evans, also was the manager of a couple of other dopers, including Wonder Vino
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rominger-denies-ferrari-money-laundering-links

And of course you could have a look at: Team history, the era Evans was a part of and so on. Just to add to your list with Evans facts.

Dear Wiggo and blackcat compiled a comprehensive list on evans background

 

[blackcat]

i am gonna be going short on Cuddles on Betfair. he wont win.

and right you were

hope you picked up a mint

 

[Archibald]

and right you were

hope you picked up a mint

good job, hoggy... erm...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Anyone know how the testers get around with medical equipment? Phlebotomy equipment is kinda full-on and I am curious how they go through customs, etc? Or do they pick stuff up when they arrive?

And if they do bring it with them, say to Tenerife, that kinda precludes too may tests for the trip, unless they brought a whole stack of it, doesn't it?

 

[Tinman]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...aiting-for-oricagreenedge-20140602-zrujl.html

Rogers claimed two wins - on stage 19 to Cima Grappa and stage 20 to Monte Zoncolan; and finished 18th overall at 48mins 6secs after working tirelessly throughout the Giro for his Polish teammate Rafal Majka who finished sixth overall at 7min 4secs.

"I am happy things turned around for him after all he went through," Evans said.

"I am happy for him personally, but also just for justice and fairness in the world."

 

[blackcat]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...aiting-for-oricagreenedge-20140602-zrujl.html

Rogers claimed two wins - on stage 19 to Cima Grappa and stage 20 to Monte Zoncolan; and finished 18th overall at 48mins 6secs after working tirelessly throughout the Giro for his Polish teammate Rafal Majka who finished sixth overall at 7min 4secs.

"I am happy things turned around for him after all he went through," Evans said.

"I am happy for him personally, but also just for justice and fairness in the world."

but Tin, when Armstrong was coming back, Cuddles gave the usual platitudes of hagiography of Lance.

a rider who had stolen rewards and wins off you, you dont laud said return

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...aiting-for-oricagreenedge-20140602-zrujl.html

Rogers claimed two wins - on stage 19 to Cima Grappa and stage 20 to Monte Zoncolan; and finished 18th overall at 48mins 6secs after working tirelessly throughout the Giro for his Polish teammate Rafal Majka who finished sixth overall at 7min 4secs.

"I am happy things turned around for him after all he went through," Evans said.

"I am happy for him personally, but also just for justice and fairness in the world."

What is justice and fairness in the cycling world?

Why does Evans not complain that Fuyu Li was banned for 2 years for exact same instance as Rogers?

Evans, clean, yeah of course he is.

 

[Tinman]

a rider who had stolen rewards and wins off you, you dont laud said return

unless of course... it was a fair race, on equal footings...

 

[blackcat]

unless of course... it was a fair race, on equal footings...

yes, ofcourse.

as you contend. correct you are

 

[blackcat]

What is justice and fairness in the cycling world?

Why does Evans not complain that Fuyu Li was banned for 2 years for exact same instance as Rogers?

Evans, clean, yeah of course he is.

and pistolero

(contador)

 

[Benotti69]

and pistolero

(contador)

He said steak but meant to say a supplement....lost in translation till CAS unlocked it, but to late for Bertie

 

[Tinman]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/m...ours-great-rides/story-e6frfglf-1226409357370

CADEL Evans's team time trial form was stronger than even the great Lance Armstrong at his peak during last year's Tour de France, according to the man who helped both of them to yellow jerseys.

A veteran of 16 Tours de France, George Hincapie said he had never seen a stronger rider in a team time trial than Evans when he drove their BMC train to second place in the 23km stage two.

Hincapie is the only rider to have piloted Armstrong to all seven of his Tour de France victories and was one of Evans' key lieutenants last year

"I had done many team time trials and won many team time trials at the Tour de France, but I felt like he (Evans) was the strongest rider I had ever done the team time trial with," Hincapie said.

 

[blackcat]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/m...ours-great-rides/story-e6frfglf-1226409357370

CADEL Evans's team time trial form was stronger than even the great Lance Armstrong at his peak during last year's Tour de France, according to the man who helped both of them to yellow jerseys.

A veteran of 16 Tours de France, George Hincapie said he had never seen a stronger rider in a team time trial than Evans when he drove their BMC train to second place in the 23km stage two.

Hincapie is the only rider to have piloted Armstrong to all seven of his Tour de France victories and was one of Evans' key lieutenants last year

"I had done many team time trials and won many team time trials at the Tour de France, but I felt like he (Evans) was the strongest rider I had ever done the team time trial with," Hincapie said.

was just pi$$ing in his pocket

 

[Tinman]

was just pi$$ing in his pocket

Not speaking the truth then

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Not speaking the truth then

The other explanation is George was clean(er) with Cadel, therefore the gap is bigger, and the relative pain factor is more. Plus he was older, another factor in how difficult it would feel.

None of that has to be because Cadel was in fact stronger.

 

[Tinman]

The other explanation is George was clean(er) with Cadel, therefore the gap is bigger, and the relative pain factor is more. Plus he was older, another factor in how difficult it would feel.

None of that has to be because Cadel was in fact stronger.

Yes DW, you are making a good argument for why we should take Big George at his word

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yes DW, you are making a good argument for why we should take Big George at his word

I honestly cannot think of a single thing a cyclist could say, whilst in that arena, that would be anything but PR.

 

[blackcat]

I honestly cannot think of a single thing a cyclist could say, whilst in that arena, that would be anything but PR.

personally, i reckon "pis$ing in his pocket" is far more eloquent.

you never went to finishing school right dear wiggo?

i thought not

for non-antipodeans, urban dictionary should have a definition for pis$ing in your pocket

 

[Archibald]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/m...ours-great-rides/story-e6frfglf-1226409357370

CADEL Evans's team time trial form was stronger than even the great Lance Armstrong at his peak during last year's Tour de France, according to the man who helped both of them to yellow jerseys.

A veteran of 16 Tours de France, George Hincapie said he had never seen a stronger rider in a team time trial than Evans when he drove their BMC train to second place in the 23km stage two.

Hincapie is the only rider to have piloted Armstrong to all seven of his Tour de France victories and was one of Evans' key lieutenants last year

"I had done many team time trials and won many team time trials at the Tour de France, but I felt like he (Evans) was the strongest rider I had ever done the team time trial with," Hincapie said.

and this from a man who claims Frankie Andreau was a bigger influence on him than LA was when it came to charging up