Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

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Kohl isn't quite the rags-to-riches tale we make him out to be though. Not compared to some riders who've arrived in the top 5 of the Tour without any serious stage racing pedigree at all. Kohl had at least podiumed the Dauphiné a couple of years earlier.

That's by the by though. That Kohl was doped and finished behind Evans is not evidence of Evans doping in and of itself. After all, Roy Sentjens and Steve Houanard were doping, a lot of people including some generally thought to be clean (eg Moncoutié, Fedrigo) have finished ahead of them at a variety of races.

Also, as for how Evans should have chased straight away, it should be noted that Kohl did a lot of chasing at the bottom of the mountain and paid for it later. Evans may have overestimated Kohl's pace-setting abilities based on the previous days, thinking he could rely on the Austrian for a while before taking it up himself.
 
Jul 7, 2010
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I think Popovych is great evidence that Cadel is somewhat clean. Otherwise, why would his team spend big money on bringing someone like YP across, only for him to suddenly turn intoa nobody after he stops doping for a season.

I also think Cadel's performance in 11, wasn't much above his performance previous years. It Judd so happened that he stayed fit, and had some luck against key rivals. He has never had a ridiculous stand out performance. Even that day in 2011, he was just chasing Schleck. Yeah he towed guys along, but that doesn't make it harder for him.

He also always seems to have good and bad days, is hurting more than others, attacks less often, wheel sucks more often, recovers slower after cracking, etc.

His work with Ferrari was some tests, one session, nothing more. They were to basically build a report to sell him till potential road teams, as Ferrari's recommendation went a long way with the road teams.

Naturally the AIS knew from an early age he had a great VO2 max, he was an awesome mountain biker early in his career (winning a world bronze medal at U23 level as a 19yo, and the senior World Cup at 21).

He has also generally been a bit of an outcast among the other pros...

I think that's loads of circumstantial evidence as to why he isn't a doper.
 
abbaskip said:
I think Popovych is great evidence that Cadel is somewhat clean. Otherwise, why would his team spend big money on bringing someone like YP across, only for him to suddenly turn intoa nobody after he stops doping for a season.
Because his best buddy Volodymyr Bileka was busted and Popo was scared ****less. Didn't Kohl say Lotto signed him because of his ability not to test positive?
 
Maxiton said:
So says Tyler Hamilton, here. Probably few in the peloton know more about who's dirty, who's clean, and what's what in pro cycling, than Tyler Hamilton. TH is naming names and kicking behinds, and he says Cadel is clean.

What do you say? Is there a clean champion, and is it Cadel Evans?

Tyler's like Floyd, so I don't know if you can believe him here. Besides, didn't Cadel admit to some sort of doping, or was linked to some a few years back(or i could just flat out be wrong-and probably am here)? He might be "clean" now...not sure.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Ferrari links now

my mail on this was a reference to Rene's (Cyclingheroes is Rene Schuijlenburg) interview at a Telekom training camp, circa 2003, so this was not whilst he was still riding for the Cannondale mtb team, and signing with Rominger, then being flipped to Mapei. It was not a published interview.

I dont think we have the whole story from Evans. He is front running to control the message. Move along

Evans and his meeting with Ferrari?
http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral...ari-says-evans

Anthony Tan, you banned me from twitter when I called you out on wilful ignorance of doping. And you are now jumping on a bandwagon, like Klaus Muller. What a joke.

Linda Pierce the cycling beat journo fom The Age (before Sam Lane, talking 2003ish-2010ish) knew of Evans and Ferrari link. CyclingHeroes the dutch journo, had the words from Evans at a Telekom training camp. Anthony Tan is about 10 years late. And you would never have had the integrity to go with it. What is Rob Arnold saying

AusCyclingFan94 ball is in your court.

someone ask Thomas Frei off the record
http://www.thomas-frei.ch
twitter @thomasfrei
 
Oct 14, 2012
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There is absolutely no chance that a "clean" Cadel Evans could finish second behind known doper Alberto Contador at the Tour in 2007 with Levi Leipheimer finishing in third place overall, who admitted that he used blood transfusions during that Tour. Now these are three riders with a nice palmarès.
 
I think he was just placating the audience.

He can't know for sure. To say otherwise is wrong.

Cadel was extremely complimentary of George Hincapie.
And we all know George was as dirty as the rest of them.

When 20 of 21 podium finishes during the Armstrong run have some sort of taint, it's hard for me to believe any rider is clean.


I hope he is clean. I hope Sky is clean.
 
Zultronova said:
There is absolutely no chance that a "clean" Cadel Evans could finish second behind known doper Alberto Contador at the Tour in 2007 with Levi Leipheimer finishing in third place overall, who admitted that he used blood transfusions during that Tour. Now these are three riders with a nice palmarès.

Eh?

Finishing behind someone is proof of nothing

Finishing ahead of Leipheimer is entirely plausible if he's a better rider.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
Edit: I notice Blackcat also said Chiara is an enabler. I agree 100% with that. Was the first description that came to mind when thinking of a wife who has a husband who was doping before she met him. There literally is no other explanation for such behaviour (granted some don't believe Cadel is engaging in dubious hematological shenanigans...you will eventually). I also note sairyder had to ask if BETSY ANDREU is any different!!! Lol, dude, you are so lacking in base info on cycling it's funny. What Blackcat said...that was a really dumb question, but at least you now know. Her reputation on cycling forums, particularly the Clinic is akin to a Unicorn. That is how rare people of her condition are. They exist in legend, especially in a sport like cycling.

actually, in defense of Evans and his wife here.

I dont believe she is Odessa Gunn nor Haven Parchinski. I dont believe she was or is, crucial, or an enabler. But I do not believe she is Betsy Andreu.

I have only heard Evans announce platitudes and motherhood statements about Armstrong, "great champion", challenge to go against him on his return... etc. And Chiara is a little like Elisa Basso, always seen around races. She knows what the culture is. But UNLIKE Elisa Basso, if Elisa was selling stuff or a mule, apart from Eddie Mazzoleni's squeeze, I presume the best for her and she just brings Cadel's dog to races. She would not be that stupid.

When Rob Arnold publishes Evan's blood parameters and his hematocrit, I believe the numbers, and there is no blood manipulation nor plasma expanders obfuscating the real numbers. I think he probably just used recovery therapy, and if he saw Ferrari beyond the test for Rominger, I dont think he took the jump to oxygen vector drugs or techniques. Which makes his results and achievements all the more remarkable. I dont think the current crop use such little supplementation. This may be naive of me. Sort of contradicts everything I have said on the professional peloton in Europe. Its a smidgin' AusCyclingFan94 thats what it is <blackcat holds his or her head in shame>
 
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postmanhat said:
Eh?

Finishing behind someone is proof of nothing

Finishing ahead of Leipheimer is entirely plausible if he's a better rider.

Finishing ahead of the entire peloton bar one rider.
 
Oct 14, 2012
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postmanhat said:
Eh?

Finishing behind someone is proof of nothing

Finishing ahead of Leipheimer is entirely plausible if he's a better rider.

You've got a lot to learn.;)
I don't believe in miracles.........it seems that you do :)
I will spell it out again. It's impossible after a three week Grand Tour for a CLEAN rider to finish second between two very accomplished cyclists. Both of whom were riding for Discovery. And both of whom were blood doping. That only leads to one logical conclusion. And that is. Cadel Evans has doped during his career.

IMPOSSIBLE
 
May 23, 2010
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WildspokeJoe said:
I think he was just placating the audience.

He can't know for sure. To say otherwise is wrong.

Cadel was extremely complimentary of George Hincapie.
And we all know George was as dirty as the rest of them.

When 20 of 21 podium finishes during the Armstrong run have some sort of taint, it's hard for me to believe any rider is clean.

I hope he is clean. I hope Sky is clean.

Read Tyler's book. There were a couple of years he raced the tour without blood boost and finished barely in the top 100. When he doped, he was a top 10 contender. There are no clean riders in the top 20 for the last two decades in the Tour de France.
 
WildspokeJoe said:
I think he was just placating the audience.

He can't know for sure. To say otherwise is wrong.

Cadel was extremely complimentary of George Hincapie.
And we all know George was as dirty as the rest of them.

When 20 of 21 podium finishes during the Armstrong run have some sort of taint, it's hard for me to believe any rider is clean. I hope he is clean. I hope Sky is clean.

Well said.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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sittingbison said:
The Ferrari link is tenuous at best,

see my repost in this thread. My mail on this came from Cyclingheroes Rene, about 6 years ago, and it related to a pre-season training camp at Telekom so we are talking 2003 or 2004. And it did not relate to the trial test for his power numbers in St Moritz. That said, I think Sassi always handled his training and coaching. And I dont think Evans took blood vector techniques.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Tubeless said:
Read Tyler's book. There were a couple of years he raced the tour without blood boost and finished barely in the top 100. When he doped, he was a top 10 contender. There are no clean riders in the top 20 for the last two decades in the Tour de France.
I would have to agree with this statement
 
Tubeless said:
Read Tyler's book. There were a couple of years he raced the tour without blood boost and finished barely in the top 100. When he doped, he was a top 10 contender. There are no clean riders in the top 20 for the last two decades in the Tour de France.

Totally agree. (Well apart from Carlos. just because it's Carlos OK!) Just to keep it going after the charade of cleanliness this year, here is next year's top 3. Contador, Schleck, Sanchez. Sky out 'numbered' and found out.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Zultronova said:
You've got a lot to learn.;)
I don't believe in miracles.........it seems that you do :)
I will spell it out again. It's impossible after a three week Grand Tour for a CLEAN rider to finish second between two very accomplished cyclists. Both of whom were riding for Discovery. And both of whom were blood doping. That only leads to one logical conclusion. And that is. Cadel Evans has doped during his career.

IMPOSSIBLE
I agree with you.

But that Tour, or the one he lost to a far inferior timetrialler, Sastre, Bruyneel was adament he was not gonna win going into the final chrono.

He was in arrears an amount of time he would have exceeded 3 or 4 fold, if it had been a chrono in the first week. Which leads me to believe, Bruyneel knew Evans performances were deteriorating thru the 3 weeks, and he was not getting his blood bags, and his recovery doping was vastly inferior to his competition.
 
Tubeless said:
Read Tyler's book. There were a couple of years he raced the tour without blood boost and finished barely in the top 100. When he doped, he was a top 10 contender. There are no clean riders in the top 20 for the last two decades in the Tour de France.

I have read Tyler's book.

I hope CE is clean as well as Sky because if they are not - the idea of a clean sport is hopeless.

They just boldly lie to the public. Do I think they are clean? No but I hold out hope.

Perhaps Dave Stohler had it right in the movie Breaking Away. "Everybody cheats, I just didn't know."
 
Mar 13, 2009
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WildspokeJoe said:
I have read Tyler's book.

I hope CE is clean as well as Sky because if they are not - the idea of a clean sport is hopeless.

They just boldly lie to the public. Do I think they are clean? No but I hold out hope.

infinite hope?

you learnt well young Padme.

Cancer Jesus gives you a yellow lone star for performance
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Kohl in 2008 was no more of a nobody than Evans 2002.
Kohl's breakout performance was in 2005 Dauphine I think, which he almost won. By memory he was second on GC. Might have won a kom jersey. Pretty sure 2nd on the classement tho
 
blackcat said:
infinite hope?

you learnt well young Padme.

Cancer Jesus gives you a yellow lone star for performance

I don't appreciate the personal attack.

You conveniently left out my last line. That although, I hope that CE/SKY is clean, the evidence suggests otherwise.

Apparently, the sport will never be clean. So why do we watch?
 
Oct 14, 2012
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blackcat said:
Kohl's breakout performance was in 2005 Dauphine I think, which he almost won. By memory he was second on GC. Might have won a kom jersey. Pretty sure 2nd on the classement tho

I hope you don't mind if I correct this. Bernhard Kohl finished third overall on GC at the Dauphiné Libéré in 2006.

Race details can be found here : http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/jun06/dauphinelibere06/?id=results/dauphinelibere067

Look at the final GC. Quite a number on dopers in there hey !