Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[Ferminal]

I guess he's the inverse Zubeldia.

 

[webvan]

After reading the latest gibberish here I'm concerned some posters here are not on bread and water...careful guys Kimmage and Greg are onto you!

 

[blackcat]

Maybe Tyler simply isn't a natural GT-rider but the doping allowed him to masquerade as one?

If you were to list the riders from the past 2 decades most likely to be clean, David Moncoutié, Charly Mottet and Greg Lemond would be near the top. The evidence for Moncoutié's cleanliness is virtually identical to the evidence for Christophe Bassons being clean.

I am not the only one who does not believe Moncoutie' first years' performances. See his Alpe d'Huez chrono in the Tour. You could quite easily work out the power/weight, and compare him to the riders around him, and who are below him.

Moncoutie was not clean. But like Evans, may well be the cleanest of their era.

Remember when we all heard about Philippe Gilbert and his clean status. Wow, we were all taken for suckers weren;t we.

 

[blackcat]

Like I said in the list of reasons for and against, the only real argument that Evans doped is his performance over the years against known dopers. It's the best argument, almost irrefutable. There are counter arguments, that he obviously struggled, that he rode to his strengths and conserved his weaknesses, that he IS physiologically gifted. This is the reason it's not as simple as "open your eyes". I certainly had my eyes open 2006-2008 and did not see Lance (doped) or Landis (supercharged stage) or even Contador smooth as silk, I saw a guy on the rivet every day, busting a boiler just to keep up, getting dropped when the real pressure came on and making up time when he could. Now this is not proof of anything, just that it is NOT as simple as saying they all did it therefore he did to.

To me this is the true tragedy of it all, that the essence of competition has been corrupted and it is not certain a guy like this deserves his accolades. He might be one of the greatest champions ever, he might be a great rider made champion with drugs, it is unlikely he is a donkey/racehorse.

sober post with clarity.

I believe he did a minimum, just some recovery therapy and managing hormone levels. testo and hgh. In the scheme of things, this is almost clean status.

 

[cineteq]

To me this is the true tragedy of it all, that the essence of competition has been corrupted and it is not certain a guy like this deserves his accolades. He might be one of the greatest champions ever, he might be a great rider made champion with drugs, it is unlikely he is a donkey/racehorse.

+1 You've captured my attention.

 

[sittingbison]

Blackcat, if it comes out that Evans lied even once, especially with regards to Ferrari, he will be destroyed worse than Armstrong.

It would be nice if we had some investigative journalism that could look into these issues.Which of course is one of the main problems - a lack of scrutiny by all concerned. Zero governance.

 

[The Hitch]

Never knew he tested positive either but his hole comments on the LA affair stink.

Samu also took the jens attacks attitude to Contador. -

"Anti doping? que es esto? let him race"

Ive known since then he has either doped or mcquaid is holding some family member hostage.

 

[The Hitch]

Why are you calling Voeckler, Rolland, Schleck junior and Cunego dopers?

Well Cunego made a honest admission in 10 answering a question about why he is no longer at the top with - "those were different times, wink" or words to that effect. Ask Libertine Seguros if he visits here for more accurate wording as he has posted about it a number of times.

Voeckler and Rolland, well Europcar have had their fair share of runins with doping authorities in the last 2 years, and looks very likely that they have some sort of team programme. And what do you knwo it, those 2 just happen to be the guys who absolutely exploded right then.

Schleck junior, also not as concrete but, well we all know the story about him seeing contador as the fair 10 winner and his ties to riis, and frank schleck.

 

[Jalina]

If any other rider went to Ferrari and then said, "Oh I only went once, it was only for a bit of training advice" they would be completely hammered on this forum. Hammered.

Imagine if Froome said it. Or Wiggins.

Any other rider in the peloton only has to have seen a Ferrari... in a car park.... through binoculours.... from their 8th story apartment..... to be labelled a doper. But not Cadel!! He admits seeing the good doctor, gives an explaination, it's taken at face value and it's all good. Cadel wouldn't lie. Of course not! And if he does dope, he only dopes a little bit.

I'm not saying he is or isn't lying, but as was said earlier in the thread.... complete double standard. This thread is entertaining.

 

[blackcat]

If any other rider went to Ferrari and then said, "Oh I only went once, it was only for a bit of training advice" they would be completely hammered on this forum. Hammered.

indeed

Also, if he had seen him in the Telekom time, his line about only seeing him for a test circa Saeco Cannondale stagiare trial, would be blatant misinformation, and an intention to lead the story and control the message.

 

[The Exorcist]

Evans did perhaps, the minimum amount of supplementation you could possibly do and achieve a ten year career on the road in Europe. But I think Evans went back to Ferrari after Mapei, though I do not know how this conflicts with a athlete coach relationship with Sassi.

Evans was on Swisse.

 

[The Exorcist]

Read Tyler's book. There were a couple of years he raced the tour without blood boost and finished barely in the top 100. When he doped, he was a top 10 contender. There are no clean riders in the top 20 for the last two decades in the Tour de France.

Tyler also said that Evans is clean and that's his reputation amongst the peloton. Never said there were no clean riders in the TdF over the last two decades. But to get somewhere in the mid-late 1990s and early 2000s, well ...

For Evans, unfortunately, however, we'll never be sure. Most unfortunate for Evans if he is clean because there will always be doubt. When he won, it was well slower than Lance's average times.

 

[blackcat]

Evans was on Swisse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvqqQZdt6xQ

 

[Ferminal]

Wasn't Sastre known as "Mr Clean" ?

 

[blackcat]

at ONCE and CSC? He may have been known as Mr Clean, but like Gilbert, rarely the appellation holds any validity as truth. And add Moncoutie.

A rider on ONCE and CSC and winning the Tour for the first time as a +30 yo, when he rode for a domestique in his first years, without being the big GC talent, is unheard of before the oxygen vector drug/technique era

 

[BullsFan22]

I am not the only one who does not believe Moncoutie' first years' performances. See his Alpe d'Huez chrono in the Tour. You could quite easily work out the power/weight, and compare him to the riders around him, and who are below him.

Moncoutie was not clean. But like Evans, may well be the cleanest of their era.

Remember when we all heard about Philippe Gilbert and his clean status. Wow, we were all taken for suckers weren;t we.

Where would Ullrich figure into this? I know he doped, but to what extent, how, when and how often, I and I am sure 99% of the people here don't know, but where would he rank? This may be a dull, weird, question, but since so many fellow riders saw him as the most talented man in the peloton, if he wasn't doping during his rivalrly with Armstrong, how well do you guys think he could have fared? Is it possible to think he was at or near the edge of the legal limit when he rode in 2001 and somehow rode 'cleaner' than any other top rider since possibly Lemond?? I am not suggesting Ullrich is an angel, just wondering what you guys think. In regards to Evans, I like the guy, and while I do think he is clean-ish or certainly clean when comparing him to Armstrong (who isn't?), but he can't be a 'pure' breed. Just my opinion.

 

[Trev_S]

This just in at ABC:

Australia's 2011 Tour De France winner Cadel Evans has admitted meeting the Italian doctor at the heart of the Lance Armstrong scandal more than a decade ago but said they never discussed doping.
.............................

Not sure if it's already been (I'm sure it has been) as I haven't read through everything yet).
This is actually very old news, although main stream media with scandal or sensationalism in mind only just spot it now.

It's even mentioned on Cadel's own website in his biography (I recall seeing it there years ago).
http://www.cadelevans.org/page/5/
It was also mention on a few years ago on Ferrari's site as well.

He's not managed by Rominger any more, although I don't know when that changed but it was some time ago.

 

[Maxiton]

If any other rider went to Ferrari and then said, "Oh I only went once, it was only for a bit of training advice" they would be completely hammered on this forum. Hammered.

Imagine if Froome said it. Or Wiggins.

Any other rider in the peloton only has to have seen a Ferrari... in a car park.... through binoculours.... from their 8th story apartment..... to be labelled a doper. But not Cadel!! He admits seeing the good doctor, gives an explaination, it's taken at face value and it's all good. Cadel wouldn't lie. Of course not! And if he does dope, he only dopes a little bit.

I'm not saying he is or isn't lying, but as was said earlier in the thread.... complete double standard. This thread is entertaining.

Evans was a mountain biker then, who wanted to move to road racing. Tony Rominger insisted Evans test with Ferrari, and at the time Evans probably didn't even know who Ferrari was. If that one test is all there is, it doesn't amount to much. In fact, it doesn't amount to anything.

EDIT: Let's face it, if Evans is guilty of anything, it's not winning nearly as much as he should have. Granted he's held his own among (some) dopers, but nothing about him, his style, or his history, says doping. The fact he's in the pro peloton at all, and a GC rider, is really the only suspicious thing about him.

 

[blackcat]

Where would Ullrich figure into this? I know he doped, but to what extent, how, when and how often, I and I am sure 99% of the people here don't know, but where would he rank? This may be a dull, weird, question, but since so many fellow riders saw him as the most talented man in the peloton, if he wasn't doping during his rivalrly with Armstrong, how well do you guys think he could have fared? Is it possible to think he was at or near the edge of the legal limit when he rode in 2001 and somehow rode 'cleaner' than any other top rider since possibly Lemond?? I am not suggesting Ullrich is an angel, just wondering what you guys think. In regards to Evans, I like the guy, and while I do think he is clean-ish or certainly clean when comparing him to Armstrong (who isn't?), but he can't be a 'pure' breed. Just my opinion.

well, the seer of the Clinic, <no, not you Hog> Race Radio has Udo Bolts saying that until Telekom got him on epo, he could not climb a lick.

Remember as an amateur he won the world champs (amateurs) the year Armstrong wins the pros, but in a decimated sprint. I cannot remember how many he came to the line with.

But, if he cant climb like a GC man, he cant win a GT. Now, it depends on the merit of Udo Bolts soundbite I suppose. Was it hyperbole? How accurate was it?

 

[blackcat]

Not sure if it's already been (I'm sure it has been) as I haven't read through everything yet).
This is actually very old news, although main stream media with scandal or sensationalism in mind only just spot it now.

It's even mentioned on Cadel's own website in his biography (I recall seeing it there years ago).
http://www.cadelevans.org/page/5/
It was also mention on a few years ago on Ferrari's site as well.

He's not managed by Rominger any more, although I don't know when that changed but it was some time ago.

Evans might be seeking to lead the story to control the message. Remember when Armstrong and Stapleton got wind of Walsh gonna run with a story in the Times about Ferrari and Armie? And how they had a story in Gazzetta Dello Sport the next day.

I just wish Linda Pierce of The Age had asked him if he was seeing Ferrari when he was at Telekom, and why would he see Ferrari and Sassi?

I think that the mail I have could be confused, because I dont understand this, I dont see it in nefarious terms, because he has always been at Mapei Centre in Virisi with the AIS cycling program. Dont know when he crossed over from mtb wrt supervising his trainining, but he was riding Cannondale mtb team in 2001, and won the Weisbauer Rund that year (Tour of Austria) on the road.

I reckon that the advent of oxygen vector PED/techniques, cost him a more impressive career. But that is speculation, and I would doubt the merit if someone else said as such.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Teensy bit off-topic, but Cadel and Ivan Basso both appear on Mapei's website, but not Rogers...

 

[Ferminal]

Thought Rogers was working with Sassi circa 2010.

A special dedication from Michael Rogers

This year Sassi has began working with Michael Rogers and must have been very proud to see the Australian hold off the attacks from Dave Zabriskie and Levi Leipheimer on the final stage of the Tour of California. Sassi has helped Rogers recover from two years of illness and injury, changed his training and helped with his motivation.

Rogers dedicated his victory in California to Sassi in a moving Twitter message: "That victory was for Aldo Sassi. Never lose sight of the light at the end of the tunnel!" he wrote a few hours after the
race.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sassi-talks-about-basso-evans-and-the-zoncolan

2010 was his best season statistically until this year.

 

[blackcat]

Evans was a mountain biker then, who wanted to move to road racing. Tony Rominger insisted Evans test with Ferrari, and at the time Evans probably didn't even know who Ferrari was. If that one test is all there is, it doesn't amount to much. In fact, it doesn't amount to anything

in the hypothetical you propose, it does not amount to anything. Yes, I agree. And this has plausibility. But not convincingly so.

EDIT: Let's face it, if Evans is guilty of anything, it's not winning nearly as much as he should have. Granted he's held his own among (some) dopers, but nothing about him, his style, or his history, says doping. The fact he's in the pro peloton at all, and a GC rider, is really the only suspicious thing about him.

I would concede the point, that perhaps Evans was robbed of his due palmares, and multiple victories across different disciplines. Ardennes, chronos, GTs. And perhaps MTBs. Rasmussen was winning Worlds on the mtb ranks.

But we are speaking circa 2001. One who was even a pro mtb'er, should have, by rights, been aware of Ferrari. And been aware of Festina. I think that this is the only point you make which I strongly contest. CE may not have known. But I think this is implausible.

 

[Tinman]

Let's face it, if Evans is guilty of anything, it's not winning nearly as much as he should have. Granted he's held his own among (some) dopers, but nothing about him, his style, or his history, says doping. The fact he's in the pro peloton at all, and a GC rider, is really the only suspicious thing about him.

Agreed entirely. There seems to be a motivation by some very persistent posters in this thread that making a huge repetitive noise (now even with large bolded type) with no new facts/observations is going to get people to eventually believe Cadel is also a doper.

Repetitive.

Cadel is a very smart guy, as is his wife, and both are great down to earth people. His quiet behind the scenes philanthropy work stands as a testimony to the guy. He is a true role model, within cycling and outside it in the communities he chooses to represent himself.

And not sure what the motivation is for these posts. Is it because team Sky/Wiggins is receiving a lot of flak? Is it because if no-one is clean then everyone can be tarred with the same brush and doping is not so bad after all? Or is it because his clean performances are upsetting to fans of riders who "have backed" the wrong horses in the past? All understandable reasons but suggest you do a bit of background reading AND self analysis before jumping on the Cadel=doper band wagon.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Thought Rogers was working with Sassi circa 2010.



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sassi-talks-about-basso-evans-and-the-zoncolan

2010 was his best season statistically until this year.

I deleted my post because I found a photo of Mick in Sky kit on their website (mapeisport.it), but cannot find the corresponding news article...

Inconclusive. At a guess, he's being prepared by Sky.