Cadel Evans is a Clean Champion

[Jalina]

Because Cadel doesn't say what you want him to your getting upset

I'm sayin that's a whole lot of bull****

All I'm seeing is a bunch of keyboard wheelding hypocrites who have nothing and they can't stand it...

I'm not upset. At all.
If you can't handle people asking questions about and scrutinising someone you are an obvious fan of, that's fine, but you are probably best not to head into a thread on that rider in the clinic.

 

[hrotha]

What the????

He's only towing the company line - nothing more nothing less

Your happy to spin his word to suit your argument - I won't be told off by a keyboard wheedling hypocrite

Toeing the company line by saying blatant lies. I'm not spinning his words at all. Look:

I hope that people remember that the events being uncovered mostly occurred seven or more years ago, amongst a minority of those involved in a sport which has already changed and moved on.

Blatant lie.
This involved a majority of those involved in the sport.
He omits that the Armstrong case goes up to 2010.
The sport hasn't moved on: the same people are in charge of the UCI, Padua shows doping is still widespread. Hell, there are now less tests than a couple of years ago.

let's commend the authorities who are succeeding in the battle against doping

Disgusting.
The authorities face very serious allegations they have to answer to after the USADA report. The authorities are not to be commended. Inasmuch as they've cleaned up the sport, they've done so reluctantly, and again, the tide has turned the last few years (less controls, rule-bending, cover-up attempts).

not on the front page of tabloid newspaper

Blatant lie. Disgusting spin.
It's not on the front page of tabloids. It's everywhere, because it's THE BIGGEST EVENT IN THE HISTORY OF CYCLING. Whether he likes it or not. A few lines above he was saying it's all been blown out of proportion by sensationalist media. No, Cadel: this is HUGE by its own right. Don't try to downplay it.

but to a level playing field where the hard work, meticulous equipment preparation and natural ability are winning the big beautiful prestigious races.

As of yet, unsubstantiated PR comment.

For those who are disappointed with the situation right now: do not dispair, do not abandon us now we are in our best years, preparing things for our most important moment yet - the future...

Standard PR comment: let's focus on the future, we're all clean now because I say so. This is no different from what Contador said. He fails to understand there's no credibility while the UCI are in charge. At the same time, he's spent the better part of this statement saying this isn't that big of a deal - how can we trust the future will be better, when one of the guys who should be leading the peloton says it wasn't that bad in the first place?

Nowhere does he condemn Armstrong, or Bruyneel, or anyone else. No mention of Verbruggen or McQuaid. Nothing. Just "believe in us because I say so", without any substance backing it, without taking a stance, and with some glaring lies which make up the core of this piece: that this was "a long time ago", that this has been "blown out of proportion by sensationalist media", and that "the UCI has won the fight against doping already".

 

[sittingbison]

I dunno mate - my reaction is hardly as strong as your accusation against Cadel. Something that'd take 5-7.423 seconds to confirm.

I'd say given the timing and the connection to USAC his links are stronger to Lance than Cadel.

even so Ive update the reasons for and agaist to include him. Got to be even handed about these things

I'll have a look at his statement when I have a moment and make further comment on it then. Cursory read looks like its written by PR person not Cadel. Initial reaction? Thank christ he didnt do a Big Mig/Samu/Valverde/Turtur

 

[Ferminal]

I'd say given the timing and the connection to USAC his links are stronger to Lance than Cadel.

Och is probably the key.

Same guy who denied ever employing him when the story broke.

 

[AussieEdge]

I'm fine here, the more I here here the more I want to stay & be proven right

I just won't be told off by hypocrites

At least you know where I stand

 

[hrotha]

I'm fine here, the more I here here the more I want to stay & be proven right

I just won't be told off by hypocrites

At least you know where I stand

Second time you attack me by calling me a hypocrite. Explain or retract the insult.

 

[The Exorcist]

With Cadel meeting Ferrari but then leaving after one met, is that like smoking but never inhaling?

This thread will never have an end - Cadel seems very honest, much more than most, but we can never be sure about any cyclist because the sport is saturated with doping.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Your question seems incredibly detailed for someone not up to speed with the story. Any reason for the "Evans' personal soigneur" vs "a BMC soigneur"?

His name is Sven Schoutteten.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...gneur-arrested-in-doping-investigation_180704

Turns out he was a part-time soigneur for BMC, yes.

But the investigation that picked him up commenced in 2009 - when Cadel was at Lotto and BMC had not even engaged Sven yet.



Remember 2009? When LA made his comeback? Guess who Sven was working for 2010? The USAC U23 teams. I mention this coz LA and USAC are somewhat good buddies...

Would this be the same soigneur that BMC denied employing, but then his name turned up on the team website, listed as a member of a current race squad?

 

[thrawn]

Second time you attack me by calling me a hypocrite. Explain or retract the insult.

I wouldn't be too worried about being insulted by someone who spells it "wheelding".

AussieEdge or whatever your name is: hrotha is probably one of the least hypocritical posters on this forum. Hrotha is pretty staunchly anti-doping, and doesn't make any excuses for any rider, regardless of nationality.

 

[thrawn]

And for a post on topic... that is a fairly horrid statement released by Cadel. It looks like was made with PR in mind. Pretty disappointing from someone who wanted to read the whole thing before commenting.

 

[blackcat]

Okay, how about this:

Cadel Evans is a Noble, Sterling, Pristine Champion

I would accept this, pending your definition of pristine. If pristine means does not use peds as per WADA code, my jury is out.

But I agree with all the other elements and adjectives, and give him a pass for being a poor media study, and threatening to cut the press corp' individual heads off, if they took a misstep and stood on his dog.

Otherwise, deserved champion. When this sport has few

 

[blackcat]

Who may also be clean, more or less.

EDIT:

Seriously, given the culture of pro cycling over its past, and given its practice of omerta, I think we have to see the sport as existing on a spectrum of medical preparation (AKA doping), rather than as being a clean/dirty dichotomy. Now, on this spectrum there are no doubt outliers - at one extreme, a few, probably exceedingly few, who refuse on principle all medical preparation - few of whom if any ride for GC; and at the other extreme, star riders and whole teams who are on full-blown, sophisticated programs. And because of omerta, it's sometimes difficult - a real guessing game - to know who is who.

That, sadly, is the nature of our sport. And that's what makes the idea of a clean champion a fantasy, if not an outright lie.

This is a really robust, rational and sober post. Axioms I have been advocating in the recent revelations. I think truth has always been sacrificed at the entry to the professional ranks, it is like a like a baptism and the barrier to entry one faces, must forgo telling the truth

There is a responsibility on fans, and consumers of the sport.

Who believes the motherhood statements of Liggett, McQuaid, Phil Anderson, Millar?

Who believes the story Zabriskie told Tygart about his promise to his father and his surrender to Armstrong, when he did not even ride the same program. Note: Matt DeCanio has a pretty crazy anecdote about hypodermic and bag at a training camp. Perhaps apocryphal. Perhaps DeCanio. Decanio is good for the laffs, and writing 13 upside down.

You as individuals, need to assess the merit of arguments, and the cr2p the holders of stage still continue to spout.

The lies have got too many. Everyone knew Armstrong was doing this, as well as everyone at the pointy end in each specialty, and they are still given a microphone and the pulpit. When is enough, enough?

Now is the time for plainspeaking an truth. Not for people like Stephen Hodge to sacrifice themselves and be martyrs. Tell the truth, the entire truth about the sport, and let the cards fall where they may. Dont be a kamikaze suicide.

 

[blackcat]

Regarding other sports and Aussie legends: Ian Thorpe's first retirement announcement, and the rumors on a postive dope test. Now that's an investigation the time is right for.

at the same time they can ask who Aus Swimming covered up a positive for in 1998. Hint: a Gennadi Touretski athlete. Thorpe was not with him then So someone at his AIS group. I know from a 4th hand Chinese whisper

I actually think the debate needs to shift from doping athletes to corrupt sporting administrations. Athletes the way they are will generally work within the system. And the system is way behind, run on greed for money and power, rarely truly for the sport itself. Cycling is receiving attention now, but it is widespread in all sports, as you know, and that needs more scrutiny by the media and fans alike. So that we get the true sport back, not a pro-wrestling scene. Cricket already destroyed, Soccer on its way there, only Rugby doing well (and swimming, although Australia in a relative lull, and doping in swimming also a can of worms I suspect. IMHO (and off topic).

+1

mimics my thoughts eX ACTly

 

[movingtarget]

That statement by Mr Evans is a true, certified turd.

I have to admit. I'm an Evans fan and have been for his entire road career. That statement sounded like it was written by a politician's press secretary. I expected something a lot more personal and heartfelt from Evans. He could not have written something blander or less likely to cause offense. Very strange. It was neither fish nor fowl. If you are going to make a statement give it some guts, say something, let it have some substance. This is disappointing to say the least.

 

[Trev_S]

With Cadel meeting Ferrari but then leaving after one met, is that like smoking but never inhaling?

Nah, it's more like walking into the smoke shop and asking "can you tell me were the bakery is please", "sure, it's down the street on the right" then leaving to go buy some bread.

 

[blackcat]

Why would you even bother writing exactly the same thing as everyone else.




Reasoned decision PR bingo 2.0 through and through.

its the Obama hopey changey thingie. We saw how that went. All hope, no change

 

[blackcat]

I would have said heartbreaking. I wanted that lil Aussie battler to win.

I have a theory on it, based on LA, Cadel and uh sorry my own experience.

When you are out of your depth physiologically, ability to ride safely is diminished. (Or if you're wearing an orange jersey but I digress). I see this a lot in races on the road, especially crits when the smack goes down.

Cadel came to the road just as EPO etc really took off. LA was there, doped to the eyeballs on EPO. Cadel falls a lot. Out of his depth?

Is it causation or correlation that the year Cadel can handle the TdF peloton he doesn't have an accident?

LA never had a stack himself - getting hooked by a musette notwithstanding - coz he was never in trouble physiologically.

In 2010, he was out of his depth, toning down the doping, but he has 2 accidents, pretty much his own fault, in quick succession.

Discuss

EPO was in the peloton close to 10 years when Evans entered for his first full road season in 2002.

Armstrong was on a MONSTER program when he get back.

reboot, reformat, refine and edit. Then come back with the theory

Evans was never out of his depth physiologically, evidenced by his manifest chrono ability. He only had trouble when the elbows come out and you need to make room for yourself, say, the last 5 kms before a field sprint, or a crucial section of a stage/race.

What was that illness Evans came down with circa 2006 in his first or second year with Lotto. He was at Pais Vasco, and had a bad turn, or a few bad results.

re: Telekom. In his favour, the year the squadra at Vuelta all retired, I think Evans, Ete Zabel, and Tomas Konecny, were the ones who stayed in the race and the big seat down the back of the bus all to themselves!

 

[blackcat]

As i recall when Evans won the tour last year one of their sougneiurs got caught with some drugs or some such. Maybe i got.mixed up though.

think you are right. But the Lotto gy gets caught in Gilberts big year, then Gilbert jumps to BMC. Really, does not matter if one swannie gets caught, cos their are a myriad with white lunch bags in the peloton, but it does look suspicious and beyond mere coincidence

Anyway a question i have for the ozzies is why would Evans not dope? With those riders who we know were clean we know that they had some ethical problems with it and they either spoke out or kept quiet and to themselves and away from the cesspool.

psychology. projection. tis not easy to see an individual with ideals, someone like yourself, and then find out they will partake in activities of a sub-culture foreign to you.

With Evans that's clearly not the case as he is best buds with half the dopers in the sport. [/QUIOTE] I would not say that, this is patently NOT the case. Evans does not have best buds in the peloton. Might have associates. Ogrady is a mate of everyone. Whitey was too. Evans. NUP!

He also does not seem to care for showing that he is clean as he has never been outraged about dopers beating him and he doesn't have a care in the world for how suspicious his teams are.

I dont care what they say. I care what they do. I am sick and tired of guys writing to Het Nieuwsblad (Nick Nuyens) telling them how clean he is, then a doping embroglio comes out within the next six months engaging them. Just stfu, if you wish to race clean, dont broadcast it from the rooftops.

This is unfair to Evans.

So what is this mentality ya'll propose he has that he would spend all of his career living competing drinking with the dopers, one of the brothers,; and losing and doing it clean, when a quick word in the ear and a little boost would prove sufficient to make all his dreams come true.

for me? just win the races his talent rightfully genetically endowed him with

Its like with people who decide to swim the Atlantic , its interesting what the mindset behind such behaviour is.

do what he has done. Enviable palmares. But stfu with the crap he is talking. Could find some counsel. Anyone. Reminds me of Cav in his first 5 seasons, very entertaining as he would shoot his mouth off, and talk about Kenny Robert Van Hummel and pot him in every soundbit and tell us how dangerous he was. "Kenny Van Hummell. Dangerous. Very dangerous."

fun neeee

 

[Galic Ho]

2012 Cadel = Rode completely clean. Great champion who gave everything.

Pre-2012 = Who knows? Probably cleaner than most.

Are you suggesting BMC's crap 2012 results by Thor, Gilbert and Cadel are the by product of riding clean? BTW I am only referring to the early part of the season.

If so, then that means there are only so many dopers in the peloton. The Sky boys, the Europcar stage winners, Valverde, Purito, Contador and Nibali. The rest as far as I can see must be clean by that logic. Then I remember what happened with Franck. Ok I should include Jurgen van den Broecke and Tejay van Garderen as well. They finished well ahead of Cadel.

My explanation. Evans was sick. If what people are saying is correct and he had major sinus issues well that explains it. I know from experience if your breathing is hampered, your performance drops substantially.

Either way, it's a nice concept. Something to be mindful of. Which is interesting to think about and use Hugh Januss idea about Lemond vs Cadel. If Cadel was simply clean this year, then Lemond would have finished ahead of him on GC, seeing his physical maximum is slightly higher. Basically that notion is suggesting Evans is the benchmark. What that means...well, it might be really good and prove the peloton is mostly talking the truth, or it is an entire house of cards construct, bound to inevitable fall apart and collapse.

 

[Galic Ho]

hahahahha

what a zinger

what if jimmy fingers is female?

Then I will get them the personal number for Brailsford and team Sky. Given the way Wiggins dresses like Austin Powers, then I'm sure there is some role to be filled in the groupie department.

Some people on this forum the last few months really have left me questioning the lengths they would go to in their fandom. I'm not discounting anything as it stands or how any fingers fiddle or flick.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I guess we'd better shut down the clinic. Nothing to talk about anymore. Perhaps we could discuss it a bit and have our say and read what others think...you know like a forum. That could be fun.
Personally I have no idea who is clean anymore..but for me to enjoy cycling I need to believe in someone. Why not Cadel?

Why not Cadel? Because it's inconceivable that someone clean would make those statements. How can you possible "believe in" someone who is so blatantly dismissive about the problem?

 

[Galic Ho]

I would have said heartbreaking. I wanted that lil Aussie battler to win.

I have a theory on it, based on LA, Cadel and uh sorry my own experience.

When you are out of your depth physiologically, ability to ride safely is diminished. (Or if you're wearing an orange jersey but I digress). I see this a lot in races on the road, especially crits when the smack goes down.

Cadel came to the road just as EPO etc really took off. LA was there, doped to the eyeballs on EPO. Cadel falls a lot. Out of his depth?

Is it causation or correlation that the year Cadel can handle the TdF peloton he doesn't have an accident?

LA never had a stack himself - getting hooked by a musette notwithstanding - coz he was never in trouble physiologically.

In 2010, he was out of his depth, toning down the doping, but he has 2 accidents, pretty much his own fault, in quick succession.

Discuss

I'd buy that.

However with Lance. He was doping in 2010. Doesn't however mean he wasn't on the edge in a major way. Tired, pushed to your limit, your brain gets a little less oxygen. You lose focus, you fall. No I buy that. Can't say it has happened to me on a bike, but then again I am not racing in between 150+ guys in the hardest race in the world. It holds up. Whether it is true for your examples...well Blackcat covered that didn't he. At the pointy end of the race, among the leaders, I don't see them making mistakes. Only the poor handlers do. Or a bad patch in the road, like the cobbles in 2010 when Franck Schleck fell.

 

[Cloxxki]

Didn't Ferrari have an exclusive deal with Bruyneel/Armstrong at the time? Was Rominger perhaps trying to get his man in there? Who else to judge the guy but Michele?
If they actually believed Rominger was nurturing him to stay clean, they could have concluded Evans was too good, or asking for trouble trying to get him to dope. If Rominger was trying to sell Evans as stubbornly clean, that's a nogo for the Lance show. Medium talent to dope to the max, and not get too expensive or cocky, please.

 

[hrotha]

Didn't Ferrari have an exclusive deal with Bruyneel/Armstrong at the time? Was Rominger perhaps trying to get his man in there? Who else to judge the guy but Michele?
If they actually believed Rominger was nurturing him to stay clean, they could have concluded Evans was too good, or asking for trouble trying to get him to dope. If Rominger was trying to sell Evans as stubbornly clean, that's a nogo for the Lance show. Medium talent to dope to the max, and not get too expensive or cocky, please.

It was said the exclusive deal only applied to other GT (or Tour) contenders. Not sure about that though.

 

[Benotti69]

Didn't Ferrari have an exclusive deal with Bruyneel/Armstrong at the time? Was Rominger perhaps trying to get his man in there? Who else to judge the guy but Michele?
If they actually believed Rominger was nurturing him to stay clean, they could have concluded Evans was too good, or asking for trouble trying to get him to dope. If Rominger was trying to sell Evans as stubbornly clean, that's a nogo for the Lance show. Medium talent to dope to the max, and not get too expensive or cocky, please.

I hope we get to see a full disclosure from the Padova case that shows Ferarri screwed Armstrong (finiancially) by working with others who were screwed because Ferarri made sure to dope Armstrong better, ISYWIM