Cancellara

[sniper]

Re: Re:

to anybody calling in doubt the motor hypothesis: please address the bike changes, in full, including the breschel fiasco, the mechanic standing alongside the road, the missing finish bike, etc.
There have been many pages dedicated to those bike switches in the old "the doped bike exists!" thread i just linked. To discard the motor hypothesis without addressing those arguments, that doesn't cut it.
Ow, and also address the Roux accusations discussed in that thread.

I agree with you with the bike changes. That still doesn't explain the motor bike on the last climbs of the Tour de France unless you have people on the UCI working for you.

which event(s) are you referring to?

 

[Carstenbf]

Re: Re:

i said "to anybody calling in doubt the motor hypothesis". If that wasn't you, then i wasn't talking to you.
..
but of course that's obvious and i wouldn't want it any other way. I used an imperative, but just for the sake of time economy.
Maybe I c/should reformulate it thus: "I would be very much in your debt if you could be so kind to also address..."

Ok, np. I know what you mean too. Online debates have a tendency to go round and round in circles.

P.S Being Danish, I'd be interested in what you refer to as 'the Breschel fiasco'. If you got time could you point me in the right direction, thx.

PPS. Quotations is seriously annoying on this software, almost gave up.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

i said "to anybody calling in doubt the motor hypothesis". If that wasn't you, then i wasn't talking to you.
..
but of course that's obvious and i wouldn't want it any other way. I used an imperative, but just for the sake of time economy.
Maybe I c/should reformulate it thus: "I would be very much in your debt if you could be so kind to also address..."

Ok, np. I know what you mean too. Online debates have a tendency to go round and round in circles.

P.S Being Danish, I'd be interested in what you refer to as 'the Breschel fiasco'. If you got time could you point me in the right direction, thx.

PPS. Quotations is seriously annoying on this software, almost gave up.

cheers.

Ok, np. I know what you mean too. Online debates have a tendency to go round and round in circles.

exactly, and that older motobike thread is so rich in discussion and links and footage, it really would be a pity to not draw on it in order to improve the current discussion.
Here's a good post on Breschel.
viewtopic.php?p=241472#p241472
If you understand some French, you should check that Durand clip that is linked in it. Meanwhile I will see if there's any English-language footage of those bike switches.
if you search that thread for "breschel" you find many other good discussions/analyses.
here another post:
viewtopic.php?p=246426#p246426

 

[rghysens]

Re: Re:

I think this thread deserves a bump. And Cancellara needs more shame in the media. After reading and watching enough video about his wins in 2010 I can say with certainty that he was using motors on La Ronde and PR.

Him and Hesjedal look to be catched red handed. Both look to be very clear.

The scary part is for how long has this been happening. No need to go to the sophisticated motor methods. We haven't catched anybody of importance so we should just worry about catching the basic low tech motors! LOL.

Yep. Seems pretty clear, sad to say. No one, not the riders nor their teams nor the UCI, will ever admit it, though.

Patrick Lefevre did.

so after 2010, and Tommeke losing RVVand PR, when did he do his solo 50km PR move off the front and hung on? Was there any suspicion there? Was it 2011? I think Sparatcus was out injured with a busted clavicle... i think

Yeah, I think it was 2011 if memory serves. What did Lefevre say, and who'd he say it to? Lefevre spoke to the UCI, UCI did nothing, then Lefevre went out and got Boonen the same setup? That's what it sounds like.

It was 2012, and I think Boonen's performance that year had more to do with buying Ibarguren from Lotto.

 

[Hawkwood]

Re:

Cancellara rode away from chasing groups and he made it look so easy. The gap just increased and increased and he barely looked in trouble flashing his lucky charm to the cameras etc....no suffering from the lactic acid burning his legs at the end of a monument.......big smiles.

I would sum up his PR performance as `Monster jacked up time-trialist rides fast'.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Cancellara rode away from chasing groups and he made it look so easy. The gap just increased and increased and he barely looked in trouble flashing his lucky charm to the cameras etc....no suffering from the lactic acid burning his legs at the end of a monument.......big smiles.

I would sum up his PR performance as `Monster jacked up time-trialist rides fast'.

there can't be any doubt about this.

the question is did he additionally use a motor.
and if he didn't, then why the amazing never-before-seen bike switch theatre.
do take your time to read up on that, in case you still haven't.
you can start here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al22Nn-6yPs

 

[Echoes]

French is my mother tongue and at that time I’ve of course watched and re-watched the Durand clip. I was even convinced about the bike engine theory. I now have my doubts. I first heard rumours long before that clip. At that time, I had a few contacts in the milieu.
The thing with the Durand investigation is that he does not prove anything one way or another. About the Breschel fiasco, he claimed he was told by the Saxo Bank staff that the car forgot the mechanic, which he questioned while knowing it could happen, had already happened. However at that time I had the info on the forum of Velo-Club.net that in the Danish media, Riis was pretty open about that incident in an interview that long predated the Durand clip. He publicly and accurately explained what happened, namely that Roger Theel had kept the Cancellara bike and perceived to give it back to him, thanks to the little loop that the peloton had to do around Mater. That’s why he did not step in the car back and wasn’t there in order to help Breschel. Durand claimed that the Saxo staff was mysterious to him but Riis made no mystery about it in the Danish press. Of course, I can understand that Durand does not speak Danish (neither do I) but that’s one thing that told me it was all a conspiracy theory. It’s now the CTists’ turn to convince me that Mr Theel could have sneaked an engine inside the Cancellara saddle tube during the short time he was out of his car when the peloton had to do a 5km loop around Mater. I mean that place was pretty crowded. How could he have done that in full view of everyone? Durand also showed how the Saxo staff looked amateurish on both races. If the bike changes were so well planned, how could they make so many mistakes?
Besides, former rider Durand – though he’s now a convicted doper – claimed that he was not more impressed by the Cancellara Paris-Roubaix attack than by Moser’s attacks in the old days (though Moser attacked on the cobbles). I’ve of course watched that attack time and again. I did see upper body movement. It was on asphalt, in a descending false flat and the riders around him were not the top favourite. It’s just the typical Cancellara-styled attack, like that attack at the 2008 Tour of Switzerland.

By the way, I’m hardly surprised that there’s more talk about GT riders on this thread than classic riders. Because you, Clinic posters, can never consider classic racing for its own sake, it’s always under the prism of Bore de France, it’s getting pretty boring.

 

[taborpolkadots]

First, is it possible for posters to stop using the phrase "mechanical doping"? It's absurd. Every kind of cheating equaties doping? Then I can say that LeMond doped because he used the tri-bars when it was still prohibited. It's called a "bike engine", period.

Second, Cancellara did nothing weird in that Paris-Roubaix. I've seen many more impressive attack on Paris-Roubaix than his: by Moser or Vanderaerden. Arch-rival Boonen dropped to his team car and Riis told Fabian about this huge error of inattention by the Campiner.

I would also point to the average speed: 39.325kmh. It's one of the slowest average speed in recent years. In 1970 Merckx reached an average speed of 41.644kmh, in pouring rain and on a probably harder route with old bikes (though he had tail wind for the first 2 hours).

On the Tour of Flanders, he attacked on the Molenberg and not the Koppenberg, along with Boonen. But it's only on the Kapelmuur that you could say he was weird, attacking seating on the saddle, casually. Then of course, his bike changes around Mater, just shortly before the Molenberg was feeding conspiracy theories but what does it lead to? We have no evidence anyway.


By the way, for youngsters, the engine bikes do not date from yesterday. Belgian Willy Debosscher won the elimination race of the 1979 Grenoble Six with an engine. He was known as the clown of the track, so it might have been just a joke.

"Bike engine" is equally absurd? "Engines" run on combustion, while "motors" run on electricity

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

to anybody calling in doubt the motor hypothesis: please address the bike changes, in full, including the breschel fiasco, the mechanic standing alongside the road, the missing finish bike, etc.
There have been many pages dedicated to those bike switches in the old "the doped bike exists!" thread i just linked. To discard the motor hypothesis without addressing those arguments, that doesn't cut it.
Ow, and also address the Roux accusations discussed in that thread.

I agree with you with the bike changes. That still doesn't explain the motor bike on the last climbs of the Tour de France unless you have people on the UCI working for you.

which event(s) are you referring to?

Any event, but more specifically to Froome's events like Mont Ventoux. 2015 Tour in PSM could be another one.

It is difficult to hide it if you arrive with it at the finish line. Unless you come in the gruppeto.

 

[Freddythefrog]

Was it Levi and a couple of others who were visited the Tour of California and were calling out Canc. I didn't pay too much attention to it but the video made clear it sure was obvious that they were making their point. I did a quick youtube search and could not find it.

Can anyone post a link.

At the time the Canc fans were all saying how bad it was that low life scum might dare to accuse such a great rider as Canc.of cheating. They had no talent just look at Canc's talent and how he destroyed them at the PR, he was a class above everyone and didn't need to resort to cheating.

 

[Carstenbf]

Re: Re:

Here's a good post on Breschel.
viewtopic.php?p=241472#p241472
If you understand some French, you should check that Durand clip that is linked in it. Meanwhile I will see if there's any English-language footage of those bike switches.
if you search that thread for "breschel" you find many other good discussions/analyses.
here another post:
viewtopic.php?p=246426#p246426

Thanks mate. And yikes!
Those were indeed some weird and frequent bike changes for no apparent reason!

Need time to digest. And catch up it seems

 

[V3R1T4S]

Back when he was murdering guys in the TTs he would always use a large, normal/non-aero water bottle on the down tube although I never saw him take a drink from it or throw it. This is almost a year before the 2010 spring classics but the Gruber assist has been around since 2007 - at least publicly.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Back when he was murdering guys in the TTs he would always use a large, normal/non-aero water bottle on the down tube although I never saw him take a drink from it or throw it. This is almost a year before the 2010 spring classics but the Gruber assist has been around since 2007 - at least publicly.

interesting point.

something like this? (from 2009) That's a pretty non-aero bottle, though not sure if it's practically located for carrying the battery. Then again in that frame + wheels you could hide the battery basically anywhere.

 

[V3R1T4S]

Yes. However, in all fairness that one looks like it has been drunk from and in Geelong you can see he used a clear water bottle. So perhaps there is no merit. But that Mendrisio TT...

 

[jens_attacks]

Yes. However, in all fairness that one looks like it has been drunk from and in Geelong you can see he used a clear water bottle. So perhaps there is no merit. But that Mendrisio TT...

out of this world
imagine how many engines did indurain have in his frame. outrageous.

 

[sniper]

Yes. However, in all fairness that one looks like it has been drunk from and in Geelong you can see he used a clear water bottle. So perhaps there is no merit. But that Mendrisio TT...

yeah, 2009 tdf prologue you see him drinking from it as well just before take-off.

 

[MarkvW]

Yes. However, in all fairness that one looks like it has been drunk from and in Geelong you can see he used a clear water bottle. So perhaps there is no merit. But that Mendrisio TT...

out of this world
imagine how many engines did indurain have in his frame. outrageous.

Indurain and the Dawn of the EPO Era.

 

[blackcat]

Yes. However, in all fairness that one looks like it has been drunk from and in Geelong you can see he used a clear water bottle. So perhaps there is no merit. But that Mendrisio TT...

his ride in the rr was mag-ni-fique, and the spanish were laying it down for Purito Rodriguez I think, but Sammy Sanchez may have been the highest place finisher, beating Kolobnev and Ballan if my memory serves correct.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes. However, in all fairness that one looks like it has been drunk from and in Geelong you can see he used a clear water bottle. So perhaps there is no merit. But that Mendrisio TT...

his ride in the rr was mag-ni-fique, and the spanish were laying it down for Purito Rodriguez I think, but Sammy Sanchez may have been the highest place finisher, being Kolobnev and Ballan if my memory serves correct.

Purito was the best Spanish finisher. They'd actually placed him in an earlier move, and if anything wanted to set up for Valverde, but Purito was stronger on the day, once he and Kolobnev were away (the move Evans went up and over) they couldn't really chase their own man, and J-Rod didn't have enough left in the tank to stay with Cuddles. Samu came in with Fäbu just behind the Rodríguez-Kolobnev duo, ahead of the small group with Gilbert and Valverde.

 

[blackcat]

Purito was the best Spanish finisher. They'd actually placed him in an earlier move, and if anything wanted to set up for Valverde, but Purito was stronger on the day, once he and Kolobnev were away (the move Evans went up and over) they couldn't really chase their own man, and J-Rod didn't have enough left in the tank to stay with Cuddles. Samu came in with Fäbu just behind the Rodríguez-Kolobnev duo, ahead of the small group with Gilbert and Valverde.

as usual, Libertine has the photographic memory to fill in the details, ta.

#neverdoubtLSencyclopedicknowledge

 

[sniper]

the Secret Pro with a nice understated questioning of Cancellara:

There’s been so much speculation around Fabian Cancellara at the Tour of Flanders — his magic bike change, and he then he just took off. Of course, he denies it. You watch that video, and make your own decision.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/the-secret-pro-mechanical-doping-sketchy-finishes-and-katusha-dodges-another-bullet/

 

[blackcat]

Re:

the Secret Pro with a nice understated questioning of Cancellara:

There’s been so much speculation around Fabian Cancellara at the Tour of Flanders — his magic bike change, and he then he just took off. Of course, he denies it. You watch that video, and make your own decision.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/the-secret-pro-mechanical-doping-sketchy-finishes-and-katusha-dodges-another-bullet/

you see, Wade's CT's


great site

but, there is a tension between the clickbait articles, and the well constructed pieces that add to the dialogue.


what dialogue you ask?
, well, ... The dialogue. The contribution that contributes to The Dialogue.

and the clickbait.

 

[budegan]

Hello all. New member so be gentle, especially as I appreciate that I may be 6 years late to this particular party.

Was watching some of the 2010 Paris - Roubaix on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lealjxge5U&feature=youtu.be

At 58.27 Cancellara makes a bike change for no apparent reason - the commentators discuss that there's definitely not been a puncture.

I found it interesting given the speculation regarding his performance later in the race, especially in light of the recent "motor doping" scandal.

Again apologies if this is extremely old news, but if not I thought it may be of interest.

 

[Carstenbf]

Old news indeed, as I too discovered a few posts above yours.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

you see, Wade's CT's
great site

but, there is a tension between the clickbait articles, and the well constructed pieces that add to the dialogue.

agreed here on both accounts. That tension indeed. Taken together, you could say what they offer is pretty well-balanced.

what dialogue you ask?
, well, ... The dialogue. The contribution that contributes to The Dialogue.
and the clickbait