Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[roundabout]

A dispute between a team and a rider over their work relationship shall be submitted to the Arbitral Board of the UCI or to the authority specifically designated by the competence clause provided in the contract, provided it is compliant with the UCI regulations

Unless otherwise specified, the Arbitral Board shall decide on:
a) any dispute between licence holders and/or persons and/or entities subject to the
UCI Constitution and Regulations when a dispute concerns the application or
interpretation thereof;
b) any other form of contractual dispute between the same parties as far as it relates
to the sport of cycling and that the parties have not expressly agreed an alternative
system of resolution of the dispute. In particular, this shall apply to contracts
between riders and teams. In case of doubt, the competence of the Arbitral Board
is presumed.

I could be wrong here, but the way I read it, if the contract allows for it, then the UCI do have the authority to decide whether or not the contract is still valid.

 

[Samamba]

The UCI needs to make a hard stance against it, same as FIFA did. They can't keep him at Bora if he legally break it (there's always ways to do it), but they can suspend him and "block" the transfer to Visma. You simply won't participate in races for a year if you break contract on your own without good reason. Dangerous precedent if UCI just lets it happen.

 

[Bolder]

I'd like to know how Bora messed up a relationship with one of the few true young GC contenders. They don't grow on trees. If I'm Denk I'm doing everything I can to make sure Cian is happy and excited to race for me, maybe even giving him a fat new contract ahead of time. Forget Vlasov, he's had his chances and as a Russian, he'll always have zero marketing value.

Of course, if they did all that and he was still unhappy, then let him go and sue for compensation or name your price ahead of time. But Bora are the losers here no matter what, I think.

 

[Berniece]

I'd like to know how Bora messed up a relationship with one of the few true young GC contenders. They don't grow on trees. If I'm Denk I'm doing everything I can to make sure Cian is happy and excited to race for me, maybe even giving him a fat new contract ahead of time. Forget Vlasov, he's had his chances and as a Russian, he'll always have zero marketing value.

Of course, if they did all that and he was still unhappy, then let him go and sue for compensation or name your price ahead of time. But Bora are the losers here no matter what, I think.

Bora said Cian was an einzelgänger and nothing was ever good enough for him. The Vlasov case probably also didn’t help.

 

[pastronef]

I'd like to know how Bora messed up a relationship with one of the few true young GC contenders. They don't grow on trees. If I'm Denk I'm doing everything I can to make sure Cian is happy and excited to race for me, maybe even giving him a fat new contract ahead of time. Forget Vlasov, he's had his chances and as a Russian, he'll always have zero marketing value.

Of course, if they did all that and he was still unhappy, then let him go and sue for compensation or name your price ahead of time. But Bora are the losers here no matter what, I think.

I think Uijtdebroeks saw during the Vuelta he can be with the top riders. his eyes opened and surely, was a bit pissed at Vlasov. Cian just cares for Cian. After the Vuelta it all became clearer to him. JUMBO IS ALLMIGHTY. money is one of the reasons he wants to go to Jumbo. he saw, say, Laporte and Kuss, and went "I want that".

 

[Lequack]

At lest he has taken the mantle of a young Belgian hothead away from Remco. Remco can now fly under the radar.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

No, you can't keep a rider prisoner. You can sue for damages. And, like I said, the UCI can prevent him from racing. Which in effect would be the same as Denk sidelining him, but not quite.

Are you suggesting that a freely undertaken contract imposes no obligations on the rider? No-one is talking about prisoners: the issue is remaining bound by an undertaking, and realising that if you wish to break that contract there will be penalties.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Why all the talk about Austrian courts? On what basis would that be the competent jurisdiction?

 

[roundabout]

Why all the talk about Austrian courts? On what basis would that be the competent jurisdiction?

No basis for that as far as I can see

Under no circumstances may the contract contain a jurisdiction clause regarding disputes between a rider and a team which would designate a tribunal other than the civil court where the rider resides, the arbitral tribunal of the rider’s federation, the Arbitral Board of the UCI or the CAS.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

No basis for that as far as I can see

Thanks: does Uijtdebroeks live in Austria?

 

[roundabout]

Thanks: does Uijtdebroeks live in Austria?

Belgium as far as a google search says (I never followed him closely, so I don't know for sure)

Mis à l’honneur à Hannut, Cian Uijtdebroeks veut courir le Giro : 'Le top 10 ou le top 5, ce doit être l’ambition'

Mis à l'honneur vendredi soir dans sa ville de résidence de Hannut, en province de Liège, le cycliste Cian Uijtdebroeks a...

www.rtbf.be

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Belgium as far as a google search says (I never followed him closely, so I don't know for sure)

Mis à l’honneur à Hannut, Cian Uijtdebroeks veut courir le Giro : 'Le top 10 ou le top 5, ce doit être l’ambition'

Mis à l'honneur vendredi soir dans sa ville de résidence de Hannut, en province de Liège, le cycliste Cian Uijtdebroeks a...

www.rtbf.be

So the question probably needs to be directed @CyclistAbi : why are you talking about Austrian courts?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Thanks: does Uijtdebroeks live in Austria?

No, but Ralph Denk's licence holding company is based there.

 

[roundabout]

So the question probably needs to be directed @CyclistAbi : why are you talking about Austrian courts?

This was in the article that he linked a couple of pages back (translated)

The Bora Hansgrohe team has its riders employed as part of the marketing department of the main sponsor, which is based in Niederndorf, Austria, right on the Bavarian-Tyrolean border. Therefore, any legal dispute falls under Austrian law in the context of European Union labor law.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Cian apparently has contract with Bora until end of 2024. If he joins Visma now, Bora won‘t be able to replace him. Plus Cian from now on races against Bora.

So the thing logically is, Visma and Cian probably have to pay Bora a certain amount of money.

I have the feeling this whole issue started with Wout, or rather, even DSM/Sunweb: riders are sick of riding for Sunweb, don’t care about contracts, and join another team. It was the case with several former DSM riders.

Actually, internationally, it‘s „contracts have to be obeyed“, or something like this.

Well, what path will pro cycling go? Will it be normal that riders can change teams whenever they want - without obeying their current contract? What sense does a contract have, then?

Are Visma and Cian, in this case, clear about the image they create, here?… Imho it damages road pro cycling‘s reputation.

If I see it correctly, Bora haven’t done anything wrong, which could have led to Cian‘s decision to leave them immediately. They actually loved him, there.

Well, and actually, after his 2023 Chrono des Nations, Ralph could have been furious about Cian and his performance. Other team bosses would have humiliated their rider publicly after such a s*itty performance. Cian rode worse than Rasmussen in the famous 2005 TdF ITT. There were rumours that some senior spectators from the Les Herbiers in the Vendee said that they had never seen such a bad WT time trialist before, at their race.

I‘d say Cian‘s CdN performance was a huge, huge damage to the reputation of companies Bora and Hansgrohe.

The thing is, if I really think about now, I could imagine that at the Chrono, in October, Cian already knew he would join Visma. There’s almost no other explanation for his performance. Bora‘s DS at this race obviously was a kind man. Otherwise, he would have adjusted the autopilot of the car to 50kms/hr, what would have caused some nice collisions with Cian (tactics used in the past by Dieter K., trainer of Team Cologne, to make his boys go faster). I mean, the rider ranked directly behind Cian, a Frenchman, rides for a fourth division team - one class lower than a Continental team. How does Cian want to win 2024‘s TdF with such TT performances?… I‘d say, if he time trials at the Tour just like he time trialed in Les Herbiers, he hardly will make the time cut in the first long TT…

 

[Oldermanish]

I'd like to know how Bora messed up a relationship with one of the few true young GC contenders. They don't grow on trees. If I'm Denk I'm doing everything I can to make sure Cian is happy and excited to race for me, maybe even giving him a fat new contract ahead of time. Forget Vlasov, he's had his chances and as a Russian, he'll always have zero marketing value.

Of course, if they did all that and he was still unhappy, then let him go and sue for compensation or name your price ahead of time. But Bora are the losers here no matter what, I think.

Or JV is the winner strong-arming the competition after effectively driving out their own greatest GT win producer. We thought a team merger would wreck the sport....let JV pay Bora what the contract is worth to Bora. That would be just unless Cian's contract contained specific conditional rights; like disapproving roster editions that would relegate him to a lesser position in major races. No DS or organization would do that, would they?

In either case; Primoz is better off without the guy.

 

[scribers]

Le Samyn, Kuurne, Nokere, then on to Drome-Ardeche, Giro di Sicilia, Tro Bro Leon, Turkey, Austria, ZLM, Sibiu, Castilla y Leon and absolutely Guangxi make sure he starts there

Damn. This is getting me HYPED up! I’m about to go punt the neighbors dog if I don’t get this under control!!

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Inner Ring seems to have dug out the relevant UCI regulation:

This would suggest a maximum fine to V|LAB of CHF500k Euro, to Uijtdebroeks of CHF100k, and recompense to Bora only of remaining salary.

It is a farcical situation if fines are less than legal remedy would be: literally making crime pay. I can only hope that the UCI take the attitude that the fines and recompense can be levied without the contract being recognised, and without Uijtdebroeks being registered to V|LAB. The rules hint at being applicable to a putative contract in the phrase "approaches or engages, even conditionally", so I think that is a valid interpretation.

 

[roundabout]

The potential worst-case cost of approximately 0.7M CHF in fines and compensations makes Bora ask of 1M seem reasonable enough.

 

[Ricco']

Can't stop wonder if all this was already known as a possibility to the team a while longer than we think and that's why Marco Brenner's plans for 2024 season are still on a limb.

 

[Salvarani]

Can't stop wonder if all this was already known as a possibility to the team a while longer than we think and that's why Marco Brenner's plans for 2024 season are still on a limb.

Of course, two rival teams fighting.

Jumbo didnt like Bora approaching Roglic and took coaches with him.

 

[joseph89]

According to Lefevere, it is mainly the riders' managers who are responsible for the fact that contracts are increasingly not fully served. “Very often it is the managers who try to screw each other over and recommend riders to other teams and then talk down to them until they take action. There are a few specialists there.

The current situation in cycling is 'not sustainable' in the longer term, he says. “This cannot become a habit, because then we will have a problem. Then it becomes impossible to present sponsors with a five-year project. If riders leave early, they leave you exposed.”

Lefevere pleit voor voetbaltransfersysteem na soap rond Uijtdebroeks: “Dit mag geen gewoonte worden”

De transfersoap rond Cian Uijtdebroeks houdt de gemoederen flink bezig. Ook Patrick Lefevere liet al van zich horen: hij koos de kant van BORA-hansgrohe, maar gaf teammanager Ralph Denk wel een veeg uit de pan. Nu roept de West-Vlaming op tot verandering: het wielrennen moet een transfersysteem...

www.wielerflits.nl

 

[Berniece]

The current situation in cycling is 'not sustainable' in the longer term, he says. “This cannot become a habit, because then we will have a problem. Then it becomes impossible to present sponsors with a five-year project. If riders leave early, they leave you exposed.”

He isn’t wrong about that last part. Also probably the reason why Evenepoel didn’t leave. They created a whole project around him with sponsors putting in more money to make it happen. If that rider would then just leave there’s a big issue.

 

[theyoungest]

Interesting reporting by Thijs Zonneveld in his podcast. Alex Carrera started negotiating when he wasn't even Uijtdebroek's manager yet, and offered teams a chance to buy out Uijtdebroeks for one million euros. Ineos and Lidl-Trek were ready to pay, Bora suddenly saw a million euros offered out of nowhere and thought "wait a minute, that's a good deal" and accepted as well. Then Uijtdebroeks got on board, but there was one problem: he didn't want to go to Ineos or Lidl. He wanted to go to Visma.

Then there are multiple sources that say Uijtdebroeks was a misfit at Bora, weighing his food, buying different socks, all the marginal gains that nobody else at Bora sought. Teammates and management treated him like an annoying little nerd, and started bullying him. During the Vuelta there was even an anti-Cian Whatsapp group. He has documented this and is ready to present it in a courtroom.

You can say, like a lot of people will probably do, "well what a coincidence, he needs to get out of a contract and lo and behold, he was bullied"... but if he manages to produce those Whatsapp messages that's rather damning evidence.

 

[joseph89]

Cian suggesting he didn't think his time trial bike was aerodynamic enough is hilarious.