Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[peterfin]

Context?

It's pretty rare for some 20 year old to just unilaterally delete a pro contract with a world tour team & sign for a rival. It certainly caused a ruckus last December, that's for sure.

It wasn't a clean transfer & his comments vis-à-vis Bora were very unprofessional.

Context

You don't delete a contract. A contract has terms that need to be respected. We don't know the terms. It might have given him a way out. In the end there was an agreement that satisfied both parties. Regarding his comments vis-a-vus Bora: we cannot check them so we cannot judge them either.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think he was overhyped for what results he actually had to show for. But obviously he was at least way better last year, so something went very wrong.

What results should he have had, to justify the hype, you feel? And what would have been the right amount of hype? He won Avenir, he finished 5 GC's in the top 10 at the age of 20. Four of which WT stageraces, including the Vuelta. As a GC rider, his results have been two levels above those of Lenny Martinez for instance, just to name one.

Maybe the real problem is people expect every kid with pedigree, to be a finished article at the age of 20. Taking Pogacar and Evenepoel out of the discussion, not a lot of kids warranted more hype than Uijtdebroeks in the past decade. So i think it's a bit funny how people are now acting as if he's some chump.

 

[saunaking]

Context?

It's pretty rare for some 20 year old to just unilaterally delete a pro contract with a world tour team & sign for a rival. It certainly caused a ruckus last December, that's for sure.

It wasn't a clean transfer & his comments vis-à-vis Bora were very unprofessional.

Ivan Sosa v2

 

[saunaking]

What results should he have had, to justify the hype, you feel? And what would have been the right amount of hype? He won Avenir, he finished 5 GC's in the top 10 at the age of 20. Four of which WT stageraces, including the Vuelta. As a GC rider, his results have been two levels above those of Lenny Martinez for instance, just to name one.

Maybe the real problem is people expect every kid with pedigree, to be a finished article at the age of 20. Taking Pogacar and Evenepoel out of the discussion, not a lot of kids warranted more hype than Uijtdebroeks in the past decade. So i think it's a bit funny how people are now acting as if he's some chump.

Lenny has panache and wins ***

 

[Berniece]

He deserves far worse after his behaviour last year.

Like what? Be specific on what you think a 20-year old kid should “deserve” according to you

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Clearly something's not right. He's been a disaster since Catalunya. Still, it's hard not to start questioning whether the potential is really that big, especially since he's a very limited rider who only has his climbing as his forte. Now it seems like he doesn't even have that. I'm curious to hear from Visma what went wrong this year. I think doing Suisse shortly after withdrawing the Giro was never a good idea, but perhaps the issue is that his base form simply isn't good enough and that's what they tried to fix by giving him some race km's.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Likely the weight of (self) expectations plays a role too. Forgetting about all that for a while and to have some fun on the bike again. Help out, keep something in a reserve and maybe to go in a breakaway on some stage. To get the right feelings back, racing. The rest if out of reach anyway and best to plan it for more gradually progressing in years to come.

 

[ppanther92]

What results should he have had, to justify the hype, you feel? And what would have been the right amount of hype? He won Avenir, he finished 5 GC's in the top 10 at the age of 20. Four of which WT stageraces, including the Vuelta. As a GC rider, his results have been two levels above those of Lenny Martinez for instance, just to name one.

Maybe the real problem is people expect every kid with pedigree, to be a finished article at the age of 20. Taking Pogacar and Evenepoel out of the discussion, not a lot of kids warranted more hype than Uijtdebroeks in the past decade. So i think it's a bit funny how people are now acting as if he's some chump.

Ofc he is above Lenny Martinez innjunior results but in my memory there were people that saw exactly the next Pogacar and Evenepoel in him and for that I have not seen nearly enough to ever belive this hype. But ifc - thats a matter of perception, I agree.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I suspect the trainers got it wrong. I heard some stories from Christian Moberg, a Danish commentator and a DS for a small Danish conti team, that he was not too fond of the training they did already back in January. Apparantly Moberg was following the training camp for a few days. It was said it was way too boring and slow for him, so he would ride some meters behind of the guys to not get draft and therefore increase his watts. So either the trainers got it wrong, or maybe they got it right, but he didn't really follow the program.

 

[Coffeeplanter]

Ofc he is above Lenny Martinez innjunior results but in my memory there were people that saw exactly the next Pogacar and Evenepoel in him and for that I have not seen nearly enough to ever belive this hype. But ifc - thats a matter of perception, I agree.

This nonsense needs to stop, immediately. To anyone who follows the juniors Uijtdebroeks was never regarded or seen as a Pogacar/Remco type of talent. The sole comparison exists because the idiot that is Jef Robert of Tormans, making a bunch of moronic statements based on nothing else than a climbing time.

The same is now happening with AJ August, and he is not of that level either. It ain't fair and it's dumb.

 

[ppanther92]

based on nothing else than a climbing time.

Just saying that I read this a lot. So it was out there (and also here in the forum to some degree). And thats probably also not healthy for a young rider’s development anyway, to have that sort of comparison.

 

[Berniece]

Ofc he is above Lenny Martinez innjunior results but in my memory there were people that saw exactly the next Pogacar and Evenepoel in him and for that I have not seen nearly enough to ever belive this hype. But ifc - thats a matter of perception, I agree.

Well in Belgium they saw him as a future GT winner. Not necessarily as the next Evenepoel/Pogacar, but definitely a GT winner.

I think he can still become such a rider and win a GT. He’ll probably ride the Giro again next year

 

[hfgon1]

I think the high expectations came more from himself than from anywhere else. He wanted to leave Bora because he felt that they are limiting his results and dont honouring his results enough. Now he is back on earth and in reality, realizing that maybe his team wasnt the major issue while he has to work hard on himself. But his latest statements are full of excuses again.

Of course, something doesnt seem right at the moment and he is capable of doing better. But maybe his head is whats holding him back. Fatigue can be a lot mental and I can imagine that he felt a lot of pressure after his departure from Bora and then wanted to show everyone what he is capable of with better material. Then it didnt went as he expected while also didnt finishing the Giro so the Vuelta was his last chance to save this season. A lot of pressure for a young guy and maybe his problem is more mental than in his legs right now.

New season and new luck with a new mentality maybe. He is surely capable of having some great years ahead of him. But this year was completely disappointing.

 

[peterfin]

Well in Belgium they saw him as a future GT winner. Not necessarily as the next Evenepoel/Pogacar, but definitely a GT winner.

I think he can still become such a rider and win a GT. He’ll probably ride the Giro again next year

Prior to the TdF many from Belgium and beyond give him a better chance winning the TdF than Evenepoel. Even guys such as Alex Carrera voiced their opinion. I am not in that camp but it shows how high people value him.

I am not saying it's impossible but it will be challenge for him to win a GT in the current era. He can't TT and he accelerates 'like an iron' as they say in Dutch. He will need to make up for it with exceptional w/kg and it looks like some contenders are basically at the physical max atm. I am also still waiting to see him on a podium of a (climb) stage or one week pro race. He is still very young but I fear that the next 2 years he needs to show significant progress to justify his GT dream.

 

[Berniece]

Prior to the TdF many from Belgium and beyond give him a better chance winning the TdF than Evenepoel. Even guys such as Alex Carrera voiced their opinion. I am not in that camp but it shows how high people value him.

I am not saying it's impossible but it will be challenge for him to win a GT in the current era. He can't TT and he accelerates 'like an iron' as they say in Dutch. He will need to make up for it with exceptional w/kg and it looks like some contenders are basically at the physical max atm. I am also still waiting to see him on a podium of a (climb) stage or one week pro race. He is still very young but I fear that the next 2 years he needs to show significant progress to justify his GT dream.

Yeah that was when people thought Evenepoel couldn't win a GT. A lot of people here thought that too.

I like to give riders a bit more time before passing judgement or thinking they aren't able to make proper steps forward. If Uijtdebroeks has another season like this one next year, then I start to think he was too hyped. At the moment I still see a good reason on why he didn't ride that well.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah that was when people thought Evenepoel couldn't win a GT. A lot of people here thought that too.

I like to give riders a bit more time before passing judgement or thinking they aren't able to make proper steps forward. If Uijtdebroeks has another season like this one next year, then I start to think he was too hyped. At the moment I still see a good reason on why he didn't ride that well.

First of all, there were people who bought into the "better than Evenepoel" BS by his team manager that was obviously complete bollocks -people could just compare junior results- and those people have nobody to blame but themselves. Like Coffeeplanter said, same now with AJ August being called "Remco with more power" by his manager.

Secondly, same happened with Evenepoel, and now people act surprised that he finished on the podium of the TDF, because "he always had a bad day" (after crashing, after heatstroke, with covid...).

 

[Ripper]

Taking the dude's comments at face value, sounds like he needs some neuro and vascular testing done. Fibrosis or claudation sound like possible root causes if he actually feels numbness in his legs.

 

[Netserk]

Like what? Be specific on what you think a 20-year old kid should “deserve” according to you

Persona non grata for a year.

 

[Netserk]

I suspect the trainers got it wrong. I heard some stories from Christian Moberg, a Danish commentator and a DS for a small Danish conti team, that he was not too fond of the training they did already back in January. Apparantly Moberg was following the training camp for a few days. It was said it was way too boring and slow for him, so he would ride some meters behind of the guys to not get draft and therefore increase his watts. So either the trainers got it wrong, or maybe they got it right, but he didn't really follow the program.

Wouldn't surprise me if he thought that he knew best and didn't follow the program, only to end up worse. Good riddance, if so.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Taking the dude's comments at face value, sounds like he needs some neuro and vascular testing done. Fibrosis or claudation sound like possible root causes if he actually feels numbness in his legs.

Red Rick mentioned it somewhere, could be the femoral artery issue. Oomen and Aru had that as well. After the operation they never reached their previous level though.

Uijtdebroeks says his heartrate and lungcapacity aren't maxed out at all, but his legs just feel numb and he can't push any harder.

 

[Unchained]

Red Rick mentioned it somewhere, could be the femoral artery issue. Oomen and Aru had that as well. After the operation they never reached their previous level though.

Uijtdebroeks says his heartrate and lungcapacity aren't maxed out at all, but his legs just feel numb and he can't push any harder.

Yeah or it could be the thing that all races deal with sooner or later, people are just better than you. Guy is a talent, he has done nothing to add humility to anything about himself, personally or professionally. He is still young, dumb to even focus on numb legs or anything else. Just set the clock for sometime based in reality. Lower the temperature and realistically set expectations. Cian is an above average racer but all the pressure of real life intersecting with all the hype.. Too much.. Physically and mentally. You listen to all the current best, you see and hear a night and day difference from just a few years ago.. Saying negative things about anything.. Look bikes are too heavy, no team support, legs feel numb, got an historic contract breaking trade because Richard knows I am a prodigy.. and more.. Just things you have to overcome later after you self deliver baggage.
Guy is doing OK..
Hear guys who lost, Kuss, O'Connor, Landa, Mas, they all put a positive spin on it, not what they lost but what they still accomplished despite not being number one that day or overall. Looking for micro victories where you can get them. Uiltdebroeks is going to fill his head, his interview history with all these excuses and self doubt, doubt by others questioning his talent. Hard to overcome.
Funny in another thread referring to Marcel Kittle, an absolute physical specimen, had race savy, had all physical attributes for greatness but couldn't get the mental part of the sport in place..
And you see it with Caleb Ewan, moments of mental weakness, lashing out instead of owning it.
Visma management need to see Cian's expression of self doubt as a very very serious problem especially because it was a mental breakdown in his surroundings that got him from one team to another. In the movies someone slaps you really really had so you regain your senses.. And even within the week!! Wout and Sepp making Kuss losing into a positive.. Kuss being selfless, team player, rising to the occasion.. somehow Kuss not winning was moulded into a positive and something that makes him stronger. Check the internet, many immediate positive things about Kuss, who probably had numb legs.. but saying that is not helpful!!!
Part of current Roglic genius is not using a second to discuss in detail the errors that put O'Connor ahead, counterproductive and useless.

 

[firefly3323]

Yeah or it could be the thing that all races deal with sooner or later, people are just better than you.

The elephant in the room

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah or it could be the thing that all races deal with sooner or later, people are just better than you.

Stopped reading there. This is clearly not his level, in case you missed it, he already finished the Vuelta in the top 10. Clearly something is wrong, so i see no reason why he would lie about it. If he wanted to make excuses, there would have been a bunch more obvious ones.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Complains about numb feelings in the legs.

Could be the constricted iliac artery thing

That was my first thought after the interview. PFP had two operations to cure hers.....I think Vos has had it as well.....

 

[Pozzovivo]

Of course something is wrong. Anyone who says that this is his level is just being provocative.

When he returns fully fit he will turn into the finest replacement we ever had for Haimar Zubeldia.