Confidentiality/cover-up confirmed?

[FGimondi]

Clearly there's efforts to cover up and burry these things in full swing by the UCI. The big difference this time around is that the idea of a cover up is beeing featured by media sources.

The big if in this case is how WADA will react. For them the rules are clear and there has also been set precedent in other sports than cycling, as well as Fius case, in cases involving low level Clenbuterol positives, even including contaminated meat excuses.

The question in this case was never what the rules decreed but wether the UCI would circumvent them for Cantador. Seems they're living up to their promise. Sure brings the thoughts back to 1999 and cortisone doesn't it?

 

[python]

That's concentration in the meat. I haven't found anything about an acceptable concentration in humans on the EMA website.

as i tried to explain in an earlier post, smeets report may be confusing and inconsistent b/c he is not enough knowledgeable in the area.

it is my guess that he meant the uci is refering to mrl for clenbuterol whilst wada mandates zero tolerance world wide.

 

[Francois the Postman]

he is likely referring to a legal limit allowance for clen in beef. i think krebs303 put it at .o1 ng/g which in turn would mean that the level found in berto is ok by european reality whereas wada demands total zero according for non treshold substances. just guessing. [fdp thanks for your labours.

Yeah, that was my speculative guess too. Somewhere there is a legal reality that makes the imposition of an absolute zero tolerance level for a single, and singled out European rider, problematic for the UCI. Or some non-expert folk made an inhouse judgement, rightly or wrongly, that this European rule minimum level" kinda makes sense, and that the Contador sample was so small and so far below it that it just didn't add up to that smoking gun.

And I think here Mart has a point. On the one hand we have rules for powerful stimulants that set overly generous levels, allowing riders who are jacked up to 99% of it, and dead cert cheats by more reasonable readings of it, to happily peddle about in the peleton. And on the other hand we have now the ability to detect insanely small amounts of less useful amounts, possibly so small that riders could live as vegetarian Buddhist monks in little Tibetan monasteries living on nothing but thin air and free range goats milk, and still be found positive against insane standards that were drawn up in an era when that level of detection was impossible.

Without even understanding what micro-levels are contracted in totally untraceable and unavoidable ways naturally, by the grace of living in our modern society.

We might be requiring standards that are becoming impossible to pass, and apply it to singled out riders only.

Maybe, for once, the UCI did apply (or tried to apply) some sort of common sense, even if Contador was actually guilty of the offence in the first place. If that was correct or misguided is another discussion. I was addressing the "cover-up" element with my protestations.

To me, even that has a threshold that needs passing. I haven't heard anything that lifts me over that bar yet. And I don't like the UCI one bit. That doesn't mean that all smoke is a bushfire.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Uh, i would be happy to ask Smeets if you can provide me with his email.

I translated a video. It would make more sense for you to contact the NOS for it. Not me.

 

[python]

I translated a video. It would make more sense for you to contact the NOS for it. Not me.

that's what you get for providing a public service free of charge investing your own time. if it disagrees w/someone.

i learned it better long time ago...i read and speak dutch too.

 

[Francois the Postman]

http://martinbudden.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/contador-–-cheat-or-bad-meat/

but again, if poeple want to read their own questions w/o entertaining other answers, they'll never know.

It could be that one, I have seen it proposed before. But up until someone at the UCI conforms that the standard in cattle was also applied to in athletes by them (and that that was a human ****-up or done in all seriousness), I am keeping the option open that it still might refer to another standard that applies to human athletes.

I am no expert.

 

[mightymac12]

Why are none of these questions being asked in the American media? I feel like this case is so close to being un-recoverable (even for the UCI); all that needs to happen is a touch more exposure to the masses. I think if a big name such as Contador goes down no one will feel safe.

 

[Francois the Postman]

OK, for the first and last time people: do not put Mart Smeets words in my mouth or argue with me over what HE said!

I translated a piece by popular request.

I am not Mart Smeets, I don't know him personally, I don't like him (if you must know) for all sorts of reasons I won't get into, I don't even think he makes a water tight case here. And I certainly don't totally agree with him either.

You can translate only one way, by saying what he said, warts and all. If you keep picking at bits and fling them my way, I will not make that "mistake" again.

[and your welcome python, no prob]

 

[Francois the Postman]

The only really interesting thing (and genuine news to me - I have been following it a bit too you know), was that, apparently, 6 experts (3 from both "camps") looked at Contador's bio passport and no two opinions of what the values indicated were the same.

That ain't good news for anyone.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Some interesting comments in that article (thanks FtP). A key point is the disagreement among the 6 experts with regard to the irregularities. One argument I have with the Smeets comments re: plastic in Contador's blood is the tendency to group all plastics together.

I believe the evidence appears to point to DEHP, not"plastic". DEHP is a specific plasticiser. I am not aware of its use in everyday food-related applications, so Smeets' argument that maybe it was in a McDonalds wrapper and so on seems shaky.

 

[FGimondi]

Yeah, that was my speculative guess too. Somewhere there is a legal reality that makes the imposition of an absolute zero tolerance level for a single, and singled out European rider, problematic for the UCI. Or some non-expert folk made an inhouse judgement, rightly or wrongly, that this European rule minimum level" kinda makes sense, and that the Contador sample was so small and so far below it that it just didn't add up to that smoking gun.

And I think here Mart has a point. On the one hand we have rules for powerful stimulants that set overly generous levels, allowing riders who are jacked up to 99% of it, and dead cert cheats by more reasonable readings of it, to happily peddle about in the peleton. And on the other hand we have now the ability to detect insanely small amounts of less useful amounts, possibly so small that riders could live as vegetarian Buddhist monks in little Tibetan monasteries living on nothing but thin air and free range goats milk, and still be found positive against insane standards that were drawn up in an era when that level of detection was impossible.

Without even understanding what micro-levels are contracted in totally untraceable and unavoidable ways naturally, by the grace of living in our modern society.

We might be requiring standards that are becoming impossible to pass, and apply it to singled out riders only.

Maybe, for once, the UCI did apply (or tried to apply) some sort of common sense, even if Contador was actually guilty of the offence in the first place. If that was correct or misguided is another discussion. I was addressing the "cover-up" element with my protestations.

To me, even that has a threshold that needs passing. I haven't heard anything that lifts me over that bar yet. And I don't like the UCI one bit. That doesn't mean that all smoke is a bushfire.

These are all vallid points and precents a balanced view of the situation, but are probably more worth when discussing the matter logically than legaly.

Legaly the rules are in place and Cantador is in breach of them. The question to me comes down to wether one should treat Cantador differently because he's successfull and arguably the most important man in cycling. It is in this setting the UCIs handling of the case and atempt to brush it under the carpet becomes extremely damaging.

Sure one could argue that the test targets athletes in a way that's not necesarlily fair, but why then were there no public outcry in the cases of Alessandro Colo or Li Fuyu or in the case of american swimmer Jessica Hardy using the same kind of defence as Cantador. Or the numerous other athletes who's also been sanctioned after testing positive at times with very low levels of Clenbuterol. The question then, should Cantador get preferential treatment and the benefit of the doubt where others have not? By circumventing the rules for Cantador cycling and the UCI in my opinion loses it's last grain of credibility.

 

[python]

as expected, the information needs to be repeated b/c i posted a link in one of the thousand threads where it gets burred - the place is becoming crazy and i'm losing interest.

plasticizers are all over in PVC based wrappers. they are well known to food industry and controlled to a content of no more than 30%. there are studies of food poisoning from plasticizers. Cheese wrapper, food wrapper...you name it.

only in medical devices their content is not controlled, yes they are not plastics and they don't chemically bind to pvc.

 

[sometriguy]

The only really interesting thing (and genuine news to me - I have been following it a bit too you know), was that, apparently, 6 experts (3 from both "camps") looked at Contador's bio passport and no two opinions of what the values indicated were the same.

That ain't good news for anyone.

I found that to be pretty funny. I guess the science is either not so good, or the experts are not very good experts : )

There is an inherent conflict of interest when the experts are looking at the sample trying to find irregularities. I wonder if the "experts" feel pressure to find irregularities (or possibly pressure to cover them up or explain them).

Certainly sounds like the blood passport program is not proving very successful when 6 experts have 6 different conclusions. How can you possibly prosecute that?

In cases they have prosecuted, I have a bad feeling that a specific "irregularity" has been shown to the experts to see if they agree it is irregular, instead of the experts looking at a full profile and looking at irregularities.

 

[Guttercat]

Why are none of these questions being asked in the American media? I feel like this case is so close to being un-recoverable (even for the UCI); all that needs to happen is a touch more exposure to the masses. I think if a big name such as Contador goes down no one will feel safe.

Because cycling is not big news in America. I can count on one hand, out of mid double-digit numbers of people that I work with daily, the number of workmates who knew "how the TdF worked" before I came on board. Out of hundreds, I could count on maybe two hands the number of those that actually knew the TdF existed at all (except maybe the vague notion that it was a bike race Lance was in).

During this year's TdF, one of them didn't even know who Armstrong was... And I quote, "Isn't he some sports guy?"

 

[Lajeretta4Ever]

I stumbled upon this Dutch TV (BTW, why do the Dutch always seem to break these sort of stories?) secret video exposing the genesis of Beef-gate. Video quality is bad, but I believe Alberto is the person on the far right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0

 

[tubularglue]

The governing bodies are corrupt, yes. But what about last year's scandal of the discarded hypodermic needles at the Tour that supposedly belonged to the Astana team?

Who swept that one under the rug?

That information should be out already, but something happened to it. It doesn't or at the very least shouldn't take an investigation this long to be carried out.


Contador is benefiting from the modus operandi that Armstrong and Bruyneel put in place years ago.

what happened to those syringes? $$$$$

 

[TubularBills]

what happened to those syringes? $$$$$

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-investigate-caisse-depargne-over-tour-syringes

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/french-agency-targets-astana-for-illegal-transfusion-kit

"...directors "declared knowing nothing," according to the paper."

and:

"DNA testing on the seized Astana team's material revealed the presence of seven unique DNA fingerprints, but linking the evidence to individual riders would rely upon the UCI sharing its blood profile data with the French authorities."

and so the DNA for the seven riders was never pursued or matched, or at least the results of testing weren't made public:

"The content of the syringes is currently being analysed by expert judiciary laboratory Toxlab in Paris. It is not known when the results are being expected."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-under-investigation-in-france

It appears that Pro Cycling can sometimes be a black hole.

And in the latest context with Contador it's become laughable.

Of note is that it all seems linked to Armstrong/Bruyneel + UCI i.e. and purely speculation, but it would seem that the connection or a reveal of Contador's past would implicate the Texan so it's being kept tightly in a black box.

a definite and unfortunate head shaker.

 

[roundabout]

I translated a video. It would make more sense for you to contact the NOS for it. Not me.

I did. Even if it's likely going to be a genuine waste of 5 minutes of my life.

 

[juiced]

We know Paddy knew

I have from a source who I trust, confirmation that Paddy knew about the positive 3 weeks before the announcement. My source although not in his inner circle does have regular professional contact with that group.

He said that it was always the UCI's intent to keep things quiet and to wait and see. Meaning sweep it under the carpet if they can.

Their hand was forced when the German mag had the story leaked to them. They preempted the embarrassing situation by putting out the release they did.

Pat has told a group in where my source was present that the he does not know who leaked the story. No more than six people knew of the positive and one of those is seen as sympathetic to the AFLD and Bordry.

Thus McQuaid blamed Bordry. I suppose VerDrugen had Pound to blame everything on so Paddy picked Pierre.

 

[Sophistic]

It's finally time for the ASO to break with the UCI completely, nobody needs those b-tards.

 

[TdFLanterne]

Bordry

So is the Contador episode the whole reason for the Bordry resignation as head of the AFLD? Doesn't sound like the new guy will kowtow to the UCI either.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5...eplace-Pierre-Bordry-as-head-of-the-AFLD.aspx

The worm turns.... I hope Bordry writes a memoir.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Strange that Mart Smeets suddenly turns into the brave exposer of corruption.

The day after the Armstrong scandal broke Mart showed an hour long "erotic tribute to my hero and world's nicest guy - Lance" interview / "documentary" that was about as buttock clenching as it gets.....

 

[TdFLanterne]

UCI vs WADA

It seems from recent reports that UCI will only impose a 3-month ban on Contador, but WADA would require a 2-year ban and loss of Tour de France placement and prizes and no eligibility for the next Olympics. Leading to no end of lawsuits, particularly from riders such as Fuyu Li (banned 2 years for similar blood levels of clenbuterol).

Will this turn into a showdown between UCI and WADA? WADA will win that fight. I'd think if UCI tries a 3-month ban that would be sufficient grounds to throw cycling out of WADA (and the Olympic Games) completely for non-compliance.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It seems from recent reports that UCI will only impose a 3-month ban on Contador, but WADA would require a 2-year ban and loss of Tour de France placement and prizes and no eligibility for the next Olympics. Leading to no end of lawsuits, particularly from riders such as Fuyu Li (banned 2 years for similar blood levels of clenbuterol).

Will this turn into a showdown between UCI and WADA? WADA will win that fight. I'd think if UCI tries a 3-month ban that would be sufficient grounds to throw cycling out of WADA (and the Olympic Games) completely for non-compliance.

Be careful with the Fuyu Li part - he has not yet had a hearing by the CCF, so he has not yet been sanctioned or banned.

He was suspended after his A sample and TRS sacked him when there was confirmation of his B sample.

Of course there is a huge difference in how Fuyu Li's AAF was announced and that of Contadors.

Fuyu Li's was announced by the UCI after his A sample was confirmed a month after his test:

Press release - Li Fuyu provisionally suspended

Date:
22.04.2010

Description: Earlier today, the UCI advised Chinese rider Li Fuyu that he is provisionally suspended. The decision to provisionally suspend Mr Fuyu was made in response to a report from the WADA accredited laboratory in Ghent indicating an Adverse Analytical Finding of Clenbuterol in a urine sample collected from him at an in-competition test during the Dwaars Door Vlaanderen on 23 March 2010.

The provisional suspension remains in force until a hearing panel convened by the Chinese Cycling Federation determines whether Mr Fuyu has committed an anti-doping rule violation under Article 21 of the UCI Anti-Doping Rules.

Mr Fuyu has the right to request and attend the analyses of his B sample.

Under the World Anti-Doping Code and the UCI Anti-Doping Rules, the UCI is unable to provide any additional information at this time.

UCI Press Services

 

[ak-zaaf]

Even i consider to give it up completly (as written in other posts). What i really hate is the cover up, not so much that many dopers are caught. Btw, Cycling coverage is complete off. Only the TdF is shown until next year. Then it´s "Feierabend".

Only Eurosport brings cycling, b/c it´s a european wide TV-Chanel. I think cycling will end up in Internet-livestreams only and maybe spain. McQuaid wants it, he´ll get it.

LOL.
Belgium? They'll keep broadcasting forever. So will the Dutch and French. And the Italians of course. It's just the Germans overreacting again and again and again. I'd be fine if they'd stop showing up at the TDF only to report on doping.

If you personnalyu consider giving up on cycling you must have missed the worlds yesterday or the Giro last May. Seriously, what kind of fan are you if this makes you want to stop watching the sport at all? A July fan?

And what sport will you be watching after that, because every sport can burned down to the ground. The difference is other sports don't throw their troubles to the media every time.