Contador and Spanish cycling

[airstream]

I wouldn't go so far as to say everyone in 08 doped w/o proof. I would say however, that if Cadel did indeed dope in 08 as you claim, then how do we know he's clean now? If he did dope, then shouldn't he be held to the same standards as everyone else & have his tdf title stripped if thats the case?

No doubt. I've just forgotten to add '2008 included'. At least one would like to hope that since 2009 doping among elite GT riders became selective. Before it was mass.

I just don't see how absolutely clean rider can beat a doper whereas their level is just comparable. Doping gives too much. So everyone must bluff in order not to turn up behind. Obviously, some riders clearly tried to ride clean. Say, Kohl in the 2007 Tour. It is well-known people like to attribute all his merits to doping, but Kohl never was weak and clearly had enough class to finish in top 10-15 in a level playing field. However, he horribly failed. IMO Alex Valverde rode that Tour without heavy doping as well. Cunego in the 2008 Tour is one more example. Everyone realizes its negligibility without PEDs and inevitably goes back to doping practice. It is a vicious circle — no way out.

Surely we have no direct proof. But in this situations it is ok to believe numbers. 41 '40 at a 105 k stage on Alpe-d'Huez is a very good sign.

 

[frenchfry]

Ah the French were being total *******s again. Typical Anyway we already knew the French hate Alberto, because he's Spanish or because whatever the **** else

Nice try at the "French" thing. The "French" in general don't give Contador much thought at all, and to say that the "French" hate Contador is a ridiculous statement made in ignorance of reality. As to the Spanish and doping, much has been said on the issue and clearly there isn't the same cultural push against doping in Spain as there is in France. Not to say no French athletes dope, because certainly some do.

What this interview showed, however, is that the French sports press is moving away from omerta and fawning over obvious dopers (Thierry Adam, Jean René Godard, Laurent Jalabert) to being a little more critical in the face of prepared statements that are intended to manipulate the sports organisations (ASO for example) and the general public.

Sorry, but Contador stating he has NEVER taken any PEDs is laughable.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Omg it is never good enough for you Either he is a doper and a liar and a hypocrite or he is "just" a doper and a liar.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nice try at the "French" thing. The "French" in general don't give Contador much thought at all, and to say that the "French" hate Contador is a ridiculous statement made in ignorance of reality. As to the Spanish and doping, much has been said on the issue and clearly there isn't the same cultural push against doping in Spain as there is in France. Not to say no French athletes dope, because certainly some do.

The booing Alberto got at the 2011 tour presentation said it all really, they're just a bunch of arrogant *******s and I'm saying this as someone who has French family.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Contador's a funny guy, not to mention a flip flopper. One minute he supports and praises Wonderboy, the next he's calling for tougher penalties for cheating, despite he himself getting popped for cheating/doping.

Alberto did not support Lance, his comments were misinterpreted as he said himself and as I and many others noted right when the interview came out. He has said on a few occasions that Lance was his idol and he has praised him a couple of times but this is all about the early years of Alberto's career really.

 

[sniper]

Alberto did not support Lance, his comments were misinterpreted as he said himself and as I and many others noted right when the interview came out. He has said on a few occasions that Lance was his idol and he has praised him a couple of times but this is all about the early years of Alberto's career really.

as you seem to have forgotten: the usada report was not just about lance. it also exposed bruyneel and marti. Did Aldirto say anything wrt those two? you've got your head deep in the sand, goodness me. does it echo down there?

 

[LaFlorecita]

as you seem to have forgotten: the usada report was not just about lance. it also exposed bruyneel and marti. Did Aldirto say anything wrt those two? you've got your head deep in the sand, goodness me. does it echo down there?

Did the post I quoted talk about Bruyneel and Marti? Goodness me, you're pathetic. Btw did you click that link I posted yesterday? Since you're still talking about me having my head in the sand, I bet not. Or maybe it's just easier for you to say this and make fun of me.

 

[cineteq]

He has said on a few occasions that Lance was his idol and he has praised him a couple of times but this is all about the early years of Alberto's career really.

Exactly why his comments don't make sense. On top of that, he goes on and on denying any wrong doing regarding his positive 2010 test, thus putting his credibility, if any, in question. I think he could have learned a thing or two from Basso. Is Fran his advisor? Whoever this might be is not doing a good job.

 

[frenchfry]

Omg it is never good enough for you Either he is a doper and a liar and a hypocrite or he is "just" a doper and a liar.

To be honest Contador bothers me less than most other unrepentant dopers, though when he convenes the press to make contradictory and silly statements and present himself as a "victim", he shouldn't be surprised that he gets called on it.

In any case, it is difficult to reason with unrepentant fangirls who refuse to see the truth and slag critics with nationalistic or equally repugnant reasoning. Whatever make you happy though.

 

[LaFlorecita]

To be honest Contador bothers me less than most other unrepentant dopers, though when he convenes the press to make contradictory and silly statements and present himself as a "victim", he shouldn't be surprised that he gets called on it.

In any case, it is difficult to reason with unrepentant fangirls who refuse to see the truth and slag critics with nationalistic or equally repugnant reasoning. Whatever make you happy though.

"Who refuse to see the truth" "Nationalistic"

 

[LaFlorecita]

Exactly why his comments don't make sense. On top of that, he goes on and on denying any wrong doing regarding his positive 2010 test, thus putting his credibility, if any, in question. I think he could have learned a thing or two from Basso. Is Fran his advisor? Whoever this might be is not doing a good job.

Why . . . ?

 

[sniper]

Why . . . ?

they didn't exactly seem to be best buddies in 2009 now did they?
contador was all over the place in interviews after the TdF saying he "respected" armstrong, but "nothing more than that".
not exactly what you'd call an idolizing relationship.
basically he could drink lance's blood, and vice versa of course.

 

[LaFlorecita]

they didn't exactly seem to be best buddies in 2009 now did they?
contador was all over the place in interviews after the TdF saying he "respected" armstrong, but "nothing more than that".
not exactly what you'd call an idolizing relationship.
basically he could drink lance's blood, and vice versa of course.

Yea I'm talking about earlier years, Lance was Alberto's youth idol, obviously he was disappointed after he got to know him in 2009 but that doesn't mean there isn't any respect left.

 

[Arnout]

It's all trivial anyway. We know Discovery in 2007 was still on a program, the team Contador was part of at the time. We know the 2009 Astana story indicating that there still was a team program (remember Bruyneel was leading Astana at the time), Contador was part of that. On top of that there is the 2010 story. He should just stay silent and hope he doesn't make the spotlights again with regards to doping.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He will without a doubt

 

[Netserk]

It's all trivial anyway. We know Discovery in 2007 was still on a program, the team Contador was part of at the time. We know the 2009 Astana story indicating that there still was a team program (remember Bruyneel was leading Astana at the time), Contador was part of that. On top of that there is the 2010 story. He should just stay silent and hope he doesn't make the spotlights again with regards to doping.

IMO I think it is more likely than not, that he wasn't a part of the team program '09, and just had his own thing. (pure speculation)

 

[Arnout]

Could be, the Lance thing was complicated.

 

[airstream]

It's all trivial anyway. We know Discovery in 2007 was still on a program, the team Contador was part of at the time. We know the 2009 Astana story indicating that there still was a team program (remember Bruyneel was leading Astana at the time), Contador was part of that. On top of that there is the 2010 story. He should just stay silent and hope he doesn't make the spotlights again with regards to doping.

But Levi said he allegedly had been on a personal programme by means of Moral and Pepe Marti and hadn't known about other riders of the team. It is such obvious lie. Everyone knew everything. Leipheimer and Landis could dope autonomously in small teams, but on Discovery team doping was obviously set on conveyor. Entire team was flying in that Tour: from Paulinho to Levi. Even Gusev was going in the break on mountain stages. Popovych was gnawing Plateau de Beille without drinking. Leipheimer simply transformed into Terminator who could close almost any attacks without standing out of the saddle. I usually rewatch memorable stages in winter and when I see Contador's attack on Galibier, it seems now riders climb at half that speed.

I was very surprised that more details on the 2007 Tour were not found out after USADA investigation. Seemingly Americans just weren't intersted in Contador too much. Though, it is a matter of time.

 

[sniper]

I was very surprised that more details on the 2007 Tour were not found out after USADA investigation. Seemingly Americans just weren't intersted in Contador too much. Though, it is a matter of time.

if we're lucky there is a distinct Bruyneel file which USADA haven't leaked yet.

 

[Nilsson]

But Levi said he allegedly had been on a personal programme by means of Moral and Pepe Marti and hadn't known about other riders of the team. It is such obvious lie. Everyone knew everything. Leipheimer and Landis could dope autonomously in small teams, but on Discovery team doping was obviously set on conveyor. Entire team was flying in that Tour: from Paulinho to Levi. Even Gusev was going in the break on mountain stages. Popovych was gnawing Plateau de Beille without drinking. Leipheimer simply transformed into Terminator who could close almost any attacks without standing out of the saddle. I usually rewatch memorable stages in winter and when I see Contador's attack on Galibier, it seems now riders climb at half that speed.

I was very surprised that more details on the 2007 Tour were not found out after USADA investigation. Seemingly Americans just weren't intersted in Contador too much. Though, it is a matter of time.

Levi and Popovych rented an appartment together in France (be)for(e) the 2007 Tour, where Marti drew and stored their blood. There is nothing known about any other Disco-rider. Hincapie said, in his affadavit, he was clean since that year...

 

[del1962]

Ashenden on Contador

Depending on how you choose to look at the Contador case, it was either drop dead simple to resolve, or impossible to address. Quite honestly I sometimes waver within those two extremes myself. But at the end of the day, the presence of clenbuterol had been established, and there was no proof available to establish how it entered Contador&#8217]

His 2010 Tour data definitely attracted my attention. As described in the panel&#8217]

 

[Grandillusion]

Many thanks for that del1962.

 

[del1962]

Many thanks for that del1962.

The link

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden

 

[Grandillusion]

Great, cheers

 

[Le Baroudeur]

If Ashenden was so convinced by his analysis then he could and should have requested proceedings against the athlete based on the provisions of the AMPU and all relevant data?

He hasn't...

Has Ashenden ever addressed the plethora of other clenbuterol contamination cases presented and the hugely inconsistent mix of acquittals and sanctions handed out?

It's always a pleasure to see 'Team Sky' fans taking an interest in old cases...