Contador's Attack on Le Grand Bornand

[Zen Master]

I was nauseous when I saw Contador's "pats-on-the-back" to the Schlecks during this stage. I was staring at the TV set during the attack blankly, thinking "You can't do this! You're only succeeding in dropping your own teammate! You traitor! You crazy self-centered son-of-a-b1tch!" I was tormented for daya! I so wanted Kloden on the podium! : )

Ohhhhhhhh how exciting !?! Please Manolo tell me what happened after ?!

 

[HL2037]

I was nauseous when I saw Contador's "pats-on-the-back" to the Schlecks during this stage. I was staring at the TV set during the attack blankly, thinking "You can't do this! You're only succeeding in dropping your own teammate! You traitor! You crazy self-centered son-of-a-b1tch!" I was tormented for daya! I so wanted Kloden on the podium! : )

I on my side got a bit nauseous when I saw Armstrong's "stabs-in-the-back" to Contador. How different we are.

I wanted Klöden on the podium too, i think he deserved it so much more than Armstrong. Klöden was clearly stronger, but he got sacrificed, not for Contador but for Armstrong. Probably the "Shack"-sponsorship depended on Armstrong doing well, and that mattered more to the DS.

Bruijneel is the real traitor here, cause he was not working for the benefit of team Astana, but instead for the benefit of team Shack.

 

[St. Elia]

There are all types of holes in this. Firstly he had no reason to fear Armstrong in the ITT or in the mountains having shown his superiority in both disciplines. As was stated earlier he had dropped Andy on both previous summit finishes so he had no reason to believe that he couldn't gain time on both of them regardless of the downhill finish. As far as Contador saving his energy for the ITT, there was no reason to think that either of the Schlecks would be able to gain any time in the ITT, based on their history in ITT events.

Well isn't hind sight a wonderful thing, I should have said the only potential place he could have lost time to LA. In the end it worked out for contador and no one in their right mind would argue that LA or anyone had a chance at beating AC this year

 

[manolo]

I wanted Klöden on the podium too.. [He] was clearly stronger, but he got sacrificed, not for Contador but for Armstrong. Probably the "Shack"-sponsorship depended on Armstrong doing well, and that mattered more to the DS.

I like Kloden... quiet, reserved, does his job... Seems to not have any issues off the bike, doesn't seem like an ego-maniac... I guess you're right about it being better for "The Shack" if Armstrong was on the podium than if Kloden did, but it makes me wonder if it was actually talked about - or if it was an unspoken understanding "We're all going to have jobs at Radio Shack thanks to Lance, well, he gets the podium!" Who knows?...

I on my side got a bit nauseous when I saw Armstrong's "stabs-in-the-back" to Contador. How different we are.

I actually have very few good things to say about how Armstrong behaved in this Tour and I hate how condescending he was towards Contador. I actually wish Armstrong had acted as Kloden did, as a pure domestique to Alberto! I just got sickened by the effect of Alberto's attack on Kloden's chances for what in my eyes was a well-deserved podium spot!

Bruyneel is the real traitor here, cause he was not working for the benefit of team Astana, but instead for the benefit of team Shack.

Yeah, from one perspective I wish he had had the muscle to put everybody behind Alberto, from the other I imagined he felt screwed by Vino's comments before the sateg in Monaco! There's an article in As.com (http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo...esionar-astana/dasclm/20090818dasdaicic_1/Tes) that mentions that apparently Bruyneel had been trying to keep Vino off the team for months! So maybe that's why Vino said what he did and Bruyneel acted the way he did.

By the way, the article speculates that Vino is only a reserve on the Astana Vuelta team because it's Bruyneel's way to make sure he has a card up his sleeve in case the team wants to part ways with him in a less than amicable way, since only Bruyneel can stipulate who's on the team! Oh, the drama of this all! Heh heh!

... what happened after?!...

Not much more! I just watched the rest of the Tour with my girlfriend and she hoped Contador, Armstrong and one of the Schleck brothers would fall off their bikes so Kloden could make the podium! : )

 

[scribe]

I on my side got a bit nauseous when I saw Armstrong's "stabs-in-the-back" to Contador. How different we are.

I wanted Klöden on the podium too, i think he deserved it so much more than Armstrong. Klöden was clearly stronger, but he got sacrificed, not for Contador but for Armstrong. Probably the "Shack"-sponsorship depended on Armstrong doing well, and that mattered more to the DS.

Bruijneel is the real traitor here, cause he was not working for the benefit of team Astana, but instead for the benefit of team Shack.

You see some pretty interesting stuff in between the lines.

 

[HL2037]

Well, this is the internet, and I can spread out paranoid conspiracy-theories if i want to!

But I think that it's obvious that both Armstrong and Bruyneel had economical interest in Armstrong placing as well as possible. If he'd have won, it would have been a sensation, and it would have been even easier to get sponsors for the new team.

I also think it's obvious that no compagny will put 100 mill. in building a team around a rider that has been retired for years, unless he shows that he is still able to do classement in a grand tour. So Armstrong borrows Astana while Vinoukorov is away.

Maybe he was supposed to prove himself in the Giro. But then the preparations were ruined by broken collarbone, and the Tour was last chance, or else there wouldn't be time to put the new team together for next season. So everybody must step aside. Klöden does, Contador doesn't, and the drama begins!

Everybody who thought that the Tour was boring just have to use their imagination a bit more!

 

[scribe]

Bruyneel's ambition definitely included sweeping the podium and was likely clearly defined at the beginning of the tour. The leader of the team should have secured his GC position in the tour and then did what was necessary to not endanger the podium spots for the team. Contador did not, much to the dismay of his team, obviously. In spite of the fact that he was heads and shoulders above the rest of the field and in no real danger of losing yellow.

 

[HL2037]

Well, in order for Astana to sweep the podium, both Armstrong and Klöden would have had to beat Andy Schleck. I don't see anything that Contador could have done to make that happen. Realising that, the choise was: Should they work for Armstrong or for Klöden to come in third? They chose Armstrong, though Klöden had a much better chance. That is strange, isn't it?

 

[Jonathan]

Bruyneel's ambition definitely included sweeping the podium and was likely clearly defined at the beginning of the tour. The leader of the team should have secured his GC position in the tour and then did what was necessary to not endanger the podium spots for the team. Contador did not, much to the dismay of his team, obviously. In spite of the fact that he was heads and shoulders above the rest of the field and in no real danger of losing yellow.

You're wrong: the leader should defend his own position, regardless of what that means for his teammates. His yellow jersey is the team goal.

No rider should assume he will be in no danger of losing the yellow.

There is no reason to believe Bruyneel was willing to compromise Contador's chances at winning for the smaller chance of sweeping the podium. It is most likely that the yellow jersey was his singular goal.

 

[scribe]

I am not wrong and this was demonstrated by team reaction to Contador's decision making. Some here believe yellow is the singular goal of the team. It is the primary goal. Once it is tucked safely in hand, there are other possibilities that are also in the interest of the team. This is not an unrealistic ambition that would endanger the position of the yellow jersey.

 

[thehog]

I am not wrong and this was demonstrated by team reaction to Contador's decision making. Some here believe yellow is the singular goal of the team. It is the primary goal. Once it is tucked safely in hand, there are other possibilities that are also in the interest of the team. This is not an unrealistic ambition that would endanger the position of the yellow jersey.

However by the way he was having his mind messed with if Bruyneel tells him not to attack what does he do? Its only going to lead him to think Armstrong is catching him or JB had some other trick up his sleeve. The guy had to attack whenever he could because he couldn't trust anyone.

Engineering podium spots for his team-mates would only be construed as a dirty trick in Contador's mind. That’s the state they put him in. They really only have themselves to blame and Kloden knew that.

 

[scribe]

Contador's psyche requires a much different situation than the one he was in. We can agree on that much.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Bruyneel's teams go to the Tour for one reason: to win it. That's it.

Kloden's my favorite GC cyclist so I was upset when he got dropped, but only b/c I like Kloden. I personally wish Kloden would have held onto the podium rather than Armstrong, but any Bruyneel team's goal is always--at the exclusion of all else--the yellow jersey. They have never once shown any inclination towards promoting the interests of any of their teammates except the leader.

At the Tour's outset, I was holding out hope for a Kloden win (by some fluke), but I knew that it wouldn't happen b/c Bruyneel team dynamics dictate that he must be sacrificed for the team leader. (And Kloden's history indicates that he would gladly sacrifice himself.) It's a bummer he didn't podium again, but Astana won the Tour, and that's all they were there to do.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Contador's psyche requires a much different situation than the one he was in. We can agree on that much.

Yeah, that situation was way beyond his control and worked out so badly for him.
I would think it would be more accurate to say that Armstrong required a much different situation than the one he was in.

 

[scribe]

I think it hurt his feelings. Winning shouldn't require hurt feelings.

 

[Jonathan]

I am not wrong and this was demonstrated by team reaction to Contador's decision making. Some here believe yellow is the singular goal of the team. It is the primary goal. Once it is tucked safely in hand, there are other possibilities that are also in the interest of the team. This is not an unrealistic ambition that would endanger the position of the yellow jersey.

The yellow jersey was not 'tucked safely in hand'.

 

[scribe]

The only way he was gonna lose is if he cracked on Mont Ventoux. In which case, the team would have ideally had someone there capable of winning should that have happened.

 

[HL2037]

The only way he was gonna lose is if he cracked on Mont Ventoux. In which case, the team would have ideally had someone there capable of winning should that have happened.

Or if he didn't make it on time for the timetrial...

 

[peloton]

The only way he was gonna lose is if he cracked on Mont Ventoux. In which case, the team would have ideally had someone there capable of winning should that have happened.

Like who?
Klöden bonked badly that day, losing 2minutes in 2km!!! Had LL been there, then I'd understand the whining somewhat better, but....

 

[HL2037]

Scribe keeps forgetting the existence of Andy Schleck - he pulled all the way up Ventoux in the hard wind while whistling a happy tune and knitting a sweater. No way was Armstrong or Klöden going to take several minutes on him.

 

[scribe]

Like who?
Klöden bonked badly that day, losing 2minutes in 2km!!! Had LL been there, then I'd understand the whining somewhat better, but....

You hear whining? hahaha

 

[Hugh Januss]

You hear whining? hahaha

Maybe whining wasn't the right choice of words. Why don't we call it beating a dead horse?

 

[manolo]

Contador's psyche requires a much different situation than the one he was in...

... By the way he was having his mind messed with if Bruyneel tells him not to attack, what does he do? Its only going to lead him to think Armstrong is catching him or JB had some other trick up his sleeve. The guy had to attack whenever he could because he couldn't trust anyone.

Engineering podium spots for his team-mates would only be construed as a dirty trick in Contador's mind. That’s the state they put him in. They really only have themselves to blame and Kloden knew that...

This is all so true... I can't imagine any cyclist being comfortable with their chances at the top step of the podium with Armstrong on the team... Only a detached, calm and collected veteran like Kloden or Leipheimer wouldn't make a big deal of finishing off the top step...

The yellow jersey was not 'tucked safely in hand'.

I guess it's amatter of perspective. I think it was! He had 2:32 (I think... ) on Andy that day and he had the time trial the next day and Ventoux a couple of days later... He didn't get any time on Andy that day and I can hardly imagine that, had he somehow shaken Andy on that mountain, he would have gained at most 15 seconds or so... so I think it was pretty safe! He obviously wanted more time, but! : )

 

[euphrades]

I think its funny and sad at the same time that this is still being discussed.

 

[HL2037]

What, in your opinion, is the timelimit for how long a race should be discussed?