Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

[Chris Gadsden]

the best and brightest, will get the smartest people that there is..it's a promise that was made 4+ years ago..not sure if the organizers are drunk or drinking from the toilet. You may have seen multiple accounts of the United States being described as a third world country..anywhere and everywhere you look, monetary aid, testing, PPE, vaccine distribution and now the utter national chaos to administer the shots..disgraced all of us..and watching other countries..if Trump doesn't feel shame he is brain dead..and the two predominant meds are from the US.. Sputnik zoomed past us..Sinopharm sailed through

Why do you suppose we have States? Furthermore, what is their function, or what is their role? When your trash doesn’t get picked up who do you get mad at?

 

[dusty red roads]

These look promising for further down the track:

Australia to trial 'backup' COVID-19 vaccines that can be modified to fight virus mutations

Researchers behind a clinical trial of two COVID-19 vaccines in Australia say they will be able to modify the vaccinations if mutations of the virus occur.

www.abc.net.au

Also: breathalysers for covid detection:

Indonesian scientists have developed a COVID-19 breathalyser test. They say it can electronically 'smell' coronavirus

Indonesian scientists have developed a simple breathalyser test that they say can electronically "smell' coronavirus and detect infection in under two minutes. But how reliable is it?

www.abc.net.au

 

[BroDeal]

What are the facts? The total number of hospitalizations in the U.S. is at about 65% capacity, a number that has been remarkably constant in recent years. About one-fourth of these, or 17%, are for C19. The worst two states in this respect are CA and AZ, with a little more than 30% of capacity due to C19 patients:

I am shocked--shocked I tell you!--that hospital utilization has been wildly overblown by the media to create a sense of disaster and drive up viewership/readership of said media. Well, not that shocked.

 

[Nomad]

Larry King, 87, has been hospitalized with COVID. What a tough old buzzard. He's survived multiple heart attacks, lung cancer, stroke, and diabetes. Two of his kids died last year, one from a heart attack, and one from lung cancer. Retired at one point, but has returned to work in recent years.

Larry King has been hospitalized with Covid-19

Legendary talk show host and former CNN interviewer Larry King has Covid-19, according to a source close to the family.

edition.cnn.com

Larry King is quite the ladies man; he's been married eight times to seven women. His most recent one that he just divorced was 26 yrs his junior and they were married in the hospital 3 days before he underwent heart surgery.

 

[Unchained]

Why do you suppose we have States? Furthermore, what is their function, or what is their role? When your trash doesn’t get picked up who do you get mad at?

maybe the dozens of other times I pecked it in on the keyboard. Trump promised the testing, not the states. Trump promised the PPE, not the states. Trump is the President, now,today,the dead bodies are on his watch, not Chuck or Nancy. The flailing federal vaccine roll out is Trump's..not Biden,not Obama.
And what can we argue about as almost every state is begging for aid, and saying,pleading for money to keep the lights on, keep firefighters,police and ambulances working at a time when we have never needed them more...his response? Golf, tweets

 

[Unchained]

353,000+ deaths and we have not had regime change..the deflection of who is in charge is delusional..President of the United States is a 4 year term..although everyone in the US wishes that they had a magic button, one of those big red ones, push it and everything stops, we get a time out from the death and destruction of a deadly virus that went ignored..at some level even today

 

[Unchained]

And Chris,California specific, with all the virus issues,lack of ambulances, hospital staff and beds..not enough testing,public safety compliance and most of all..lack of money to accomplish any of it..so pick the shortest path between all or any one issue. Politics is shortest possible distance between two points? Recalling Gavin Newsome will increase bed space in a week? A month. ? Voting months or years from now in a special election will get a more doctors and desperately needed nurses?
You can try to answer. But if you think politics is an answer,short or long-term for getting ambulance personnel today..all is lost..

 

[Oldermanish]

They are still doing first come, first served vaccination in this Florida county. What a disaster. Although, if your goal is to get it to the people with the most means, this is probably a good strategy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345360759639969792

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/BrittMullerNews/status/1345360759639969792

When the first Arab/OPEC oil embargo caused gas lines, Florida immediately instituted an odd/even license plate protocol for being able to line up for rationed gas. Florida's Governor has been drinking the koolaid so long that he never gave a thought to planning the impact of stampeding panicky 65+ year olds. Idiot.
Historians will be shaking their collective heads for years over the polarity caused by a virus that could have united populations in the effort to cure it.

PS: first time I've ever worn an unconcealed gun to work as a gas-pumping kid. Neighbors were either very cool and self-policing or completely greedy as*holes. Another weird day in Florida....

 

[yaco]

Around 685,000 died in America as a result of the Spanish Flu - So maybe they are not doing so bad after all.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

And Chris,California specific, with all the virus issues,lack of ambulances, hospital staff and beds..not enough testing,public safety compliance and most of all..lack of money to accomplish any of it..so pick the shortest path between all or any one issue. Politics is shortest possible distance between two points? Recalling Gavin Newsome will increase bed space in a week? A month. ? Voting months or years from now in a special election will get a more doctors and desperately needed nurses?
You can try to answer. But if you think politics is an answer,short or long-term for getting ambulance personnel today..all is lost..

It’s all Trump’s fault. Always has been and always will be. Nobody, no entity, no political leader has any culpability... except, ya know, one orange man.

Remember that one time last summer when the admin offered the speaker $1.9 Trillion as a 2nd aid package -including grant money to the States - and the speaker couldn’t bear to do something helpful as long as doing so could be construed as a Trump win? Ya know, to help defeat him last November?

Good times. We should all kiss Nan’s ring as often as possible.

Then there’s orange man letting everyone know months back that there would be a vaccine before the end of last year. What did Cali & NY State leaders do? I mean, other than bad-mouthing the vaccine itself? Apparently not much. No plan, no plans, no thought of plans but a ton of incompetence. Trump’s fault.

Here’s a little secret you apparently have not yet figured out: the President doesn’t really run the Country and actually is not King. Sorry to break this to you in such a harsh manner.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Around 685,000 died in America as a result of the Spanish Flu - So maybe they are not doing so bad after all.

Spanish flu was a lot more deadly to younger adults. Very unlike most seasonal strains.

I am shocked--shocked I tell you!--that hospital utilization has been wildly overblown by the media to create a sense of disaster and drive up viewership/readership of said media. Well, not that shocked.

That is with mitigation, bro. Which has pretty much eliminated the flu this winter. Left to its own devices, covid would've destroyed hospitals. If anything, the toll on hospitals has been undersold by the media. Speaking from experience on this one.

Putting patients in gift shops is not a media conspiracy but ymmv.

 

[Merckx index]

Putting patients in gift shops is not a media conspiracy but ymmv

When I was in the hospital with a broken leg very early in the pandemic, i had to listen to them working at night as they converted part of the hallway to patient rooms. You can always find some extra space, and beds are relatively cheap. It's the people to care for patients who are in acute shortage right now.

It’s all Trump’s fault. Always has been and always will be. Nobody, no entity, no political leader has any culpability... except, ya know, one orange man.

When a team loses, it's not all the coach's fault, but that's where the blame starts. If Trump wants to take some of the credit for the vaccine, he should take some of the blame for the fact that vaccinations are far behind schedule. In fact, Trump mostly just funded vaccine developments that started the day the virus sequence was published, and which any President would have done. Trump had the potential to make a far larger contribution to vaccine distribution which, you know, ought to be right up the alley for someone who supposedly is the greatest businessman ever. I don't expect the President to know much about how to create a vaccine. I would expect him, or his aides, to know a great deal about distributing products and services across the country. Particularly when he had almost a whole year to plan it.

Here’s a little secret you apparently have not yet figured out: the President doesn’t really run the Country and actually is not King. Sorry to break this to you in such a harsh manner.

You're right, if a king ordered someone to fudge the vote total so that the king's support would be > 50%, that someone would do it. If a king ordered the FDA to approve of HCQ, they would do it. If a king told people to stop testing so much, to lower the number of positives, they would do it. If a king told the CDC that they were inflating the death total, and should lower the reported number, they would do it.

So yeah, you're right, Trump is not a king. But give him credit, he sure is trying to be one.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

When a team loses, it's not all the coach's fault, but that's where the blame starts.

To read some of the babble here one would think orange man is not only the coach, but the QB, RB, DB, O-Line, D-Line, Receivers, TE, Linebackers, kickers, special teams, cheerleaders, equipment manager, team doctor, and if the turf at the stadium wasn’t in tip-top shape then some of you would be sure to give him a piece of your mind when he gets your car out of valet.

And his team better win big every weekend.

So yeah, you're right, Trump is not a king. But give him credit, he sure is trying to be one.

Nobody here even rolls their eyes when Newsom‘s, or Tom Wolfe’s, or Gretchen Whitmer’s orders get stuck down as un-constitutional (running over Liberty, literally) and yet it is Trump who apparently is trying to be a King. It really is laughably sad.

 

[movingtarget]

Fauci rebukes Trump Covid claims but offers 'no excuses' for vaccine delays

US death toll passes 350,000 as inoculations remain scarce and administration asks Moderna to half dosage

www.theguardian.com

 

[jmdirt]

I am shocked--shocked I tell you!--that hospital utilization has been wildly overblown by the media to create a sense of disaster and drive up viewership/readership of said media. Well, not that shocked.

You do understand that not every medical person specializes in one area right? You can't have a a facility 100% full of Covid patients because there aren't enough personnel for that nor do all of the rooms have the equipment needed for Covid care.

 

[Merckx index]

Nobody here even rolls their eyes when Newsom‘s, or Tom Wolfe’s, or Gretchen Whitmer’s orders get stuck down as un-constitutional (running over Liberty, literally) and yet it is Trump who apparently is trying to be a King. It really is laughably sad.

There's a huge difference between executive orders which are tested in the courts, and attempts to overturn elections and deny science. Governors and Presidents of both parties (Kemp and deSantis, e.g., both lost decisions at their state SC recently) frequently test the bounds of the laws or Constitution. Regardless of which way the decisions go, they are generally controversial (e.g., 4-3 against Whitmer), which is to be expected in the (ancient) conflict between liberty vs. safety (which, for many people, is not nearly so slam-dunk one-sided as you seem to think it is) . So having an order struck down isn't so much an indication of abuse of power as a clarification of which branch of the government legitimately has or should have the right to exercise a certain power in a certain situation. That's very different from issuing orders that no one has a legitimate right or power to follow in any situation.

To follow up on the football metaphor (the NBA would be an even better comparison), defensive players test the referees all the time, by trying to hold or interfere with an offensive player. From these rulings, they get an understanding of what will and won't be allowed. Sometimes they even intentionally break a rule, and accept the penalty, because it advances their case in some way.

Compare that to someone who tries to pressure a referee to make a certain decision. Or who says the referees are corrupt, and their decisions should be ignored. Or who denies the numbers on the scoreboard.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

and attempts to overturn elections

I’m old enough to remember the Russia collusion impeachment circus.

That's very different from issuing orders that no one has a legitimate right or power to follow in any situation.

One only needs a vague understanding of the US Constitution & bill of rights to know much of the covid EO’s coming from various Governor’s thrones would never stand up when legally challenged. Of course, by the time the EO’s were struck down the damage to the plebs has already occurred.

Were the decisions made to shut down schools based in science? How about closing outdoor playgrounds and parks and beaches? Sound science based reasoning?

 

[Merckx index]

I’m old enough to remember the Russia collusion impeachment circus.

Not close to what is going on now. I'd love to expound on this, but as you know, it gets us in trouble.

One only needs a vague understanding of the US Constitution & bill of rights to know much of the covid EO’s coming from various Governor’s thrones would never stand up when legally challenged.

Really? So the three judges who sided with Whitmer on extending a state of emergency had no understanding of the Constitution? It’s not possible that they just had a different view of what is allowed to save lives than you have? What if the virus had been as deadly for young people as it is for old? Would courts still find the governor’s orders unconstitutional? How many people have to die before the order might be considered constitutional? Or would it be preferable to have everyone die than to grant power to the governor to save lives?

Were the decisions made to shut down schools based in science? How about closing outdoor playgrounds and parks and beaches? Sound science based reasoning?

Yes. The question was never whether there would be transmission of the virus in school or in outdoor venues, the question was whether there would be enough to justify the psychological and economic consequences. You can be very sure that people have died from a chain of events that began in a school or on a beach, even if most people think those deaths are worth it. Many teachers and parents opposed opening of schools--as people have opposed opening bars, restaurants, and all the rest--not because of some conspiracy to give the government more power, but because they were generally afraid of getting the virus. You can argue that their fears were overblown, but they were genuine.

By the way, since you're advocating decisions based on science, commendably, how do you feel about Newsom and Cuomo getting over-ruled on closing indoor religious services? Don't you think that science shows pretty clearly that these are major contributors to the spread of the virus? I won't even address the fact that this huge risk is taken for the sake of expressing belief in something that doesn't exist, because no one on either side of the aisle has the guts or the honesty or the plain common sense to admit this.

 

[Keram]

https://www.latimes.com/california/...thcare-workers-refuse-covid-19-vaccine-access

I am shocked and disappointed

 

[Chris Gadsden]

Not close to what is going on now. I'd love to expound on this, but as you know, it gets us in trouble.

An attempted coup is an attempted coup.

Really? So the three judges who sided with Whitmer on extending a state of emergency had no understanding of the Constitution?

In the same way Roberts allowed for ACA taxes even as that admin argued they weren’t. If you think judges don’t also have political agendas then you aren’t paying attention. If they were pure nobody would fight over their nominations.

What if the virus had been as deadly for young people as it is for old? Would courts still find the governor’s orders unconstitutional? How many people have to die before the order might be considered constitutional? Or would it be preferable to have everyone die than to grant power to the governor to save lives?

Let’s turn this around, the Pfizer vacc may have more pronounced side effects with younger people and it’s thought that a more active immune system may be part of the cause. If we were to use current thinking we’d mandate all children get vaccinated EVEN THOUGH we know they are at almost zero risk of having any major problems with Covid.

People dying from a pandemic doesn’t grant King’s power. It just doesn’t.

Make no mistake, it was Gov. Whitmer’s unique use of the EPGA that violated the Michigan Constitution.

In addition to this, the court also ruled unanimously that Gov. Whitmer defied a different state law: the Emergency Management Act of 1976. All seven justices found that her attempt to continue declaring an emergency under the EMA without legislative approval violated the clear requirements of that statute.

Instead of accepting and owning up to a mistake, the governor is misleading the public. The Michigan Supreme Court was clear: Gov. Whitmer’s use of the EPGA was unconstitutional, and she violated the EMA too.

https://www.mackinac.org/did-gov-whitmer-violate-the-law

Many teachers and parents opposed opening of schools

Some parents, lots of teachers. Here’s their science based reasons;

https://www.utla.net/sites/default/files/samestormdiffboats_final.pdf

 

[Unchained]

US considering giving half-doses of Moderna’s COVID-19 vaccine

The US government is considering giving just half-doses of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine to help accelerate the unexpectedly slow rollout, the program’s chief science adviser revealed. Despite…

nypost.com

So now US officials are allowing vaccine to expire,unused, disregarding CDC measured for coordination and now they are going to go down but yet another shortcut.

Fauci fires back after Trump claims US COVID-19 death toll ‘exaggerated’

The death toll in the US has surpassed 350,000 and health experts predict the country will experience another surge of cases and deaths because of the millions who traveled over the holidays.

nypost.com

And as if his messaging could not be more consistent with the world,the US, the constitution,science..they say white he says black. He agrees to disagree before anything is said. Will say the opposite of any he considers a for

But Chris get it right in the earlier post..all Trump's actions are his own,he is completely at fault for his actions,is now and always will be. His call for multiple days of street protests should be criminal but instead can only be seen as stupid,especially given the upswing in everything about the virus and Trump knowing that his minions will come to march without a mask and don't social distance as an act of protest.

 

[Chris Gadsden]

A 99.54% reduction... what a shocker.

As coronavirus cases surge nationwide, the flu has seen a remarkable dip. Reported cases of influenza reached record lows last week, with fewer than 40 diagnoses recorded during Dec. 13-19.

In week 51 of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's "FluView" data monitoring system, 36 positive flu tests were documented. This marks a steep decrease from last year's total of 7,703 cases during the same time frame. The positivity rate has sharply declined this calendar year as only 0.10% of tests taken this year came back positive. The five-year average is 15.80% positive.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Were the decisions made to shut down schools based in science?

Yes. Which is why every country did so to some extent, even Sweden.

If there was a scientific consensus reached in good faith, it was that it was probably beneficial to have face to face learning for kids under 10-12 in communities where there was low community spread (LOL) and/or aggressive mitigation of high risk venues like bars and restaurants (double LOL). This ultimately became the bad faith argument, "FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. OPEN TEH SCHOOLZ".

The reasoning for the opening of certain Universities in the fall had little to do with 'the science'. I work at one of the top public medical schools in the country and there hasn't been an in-person class since Spring Break. (Except for cadaver lab and other practicum exercises)

A 99.54% reduction... what a shocker.

As coronavirus cases surge nationwide, the flu has seen a remarkable dip. Reported cases of influenza reached record lows last week, with fewer than 40 diagnoses recorded during Dec. 13-19.

In week 51 of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's "FluView" data monitoring system, 36 positive flu tests were documented. This marks a steep decrease from last year's total of 7,703 cases during the same time frame. The positivity rate has sharply declined this calendar year as only 0.10% of tests taken this year came back positive. The five-year average is 15.80% positive.

The R for Flu is about 1.3. The R for COVID is about 2.5. It stands to reason that mitigating COVID from 2.5 to around 1 would push Influenza below 1 given the overlapping pathogenesis of respiratory infections. This was seen in the Southern Hemisphere during their winter and is being recapitulated in the North now. I made this point in relation to the hospitals earlier. Imagine the issues hospitals would be having if they had to deal with flu cases on top of COVID.

Really? So the three judges who sided with Whitmer on extending a state of emergency had no understanding of the Constitution? It’s not possible that they just had a different view of what is allowed to save lives than you have? What if the virus had been as deadly for young people as it is for old? Would courts still find the governor’s orders unconstitutional? How many people have to die before the order might be considered constitutional? Or would it be preferable to have everyone die than to grant power to the governor to save lives?

That is the million dollar question. Which goes to show that science is not really involved in most of these arguments. It is more about values than variables. The indoor dining ban for my county was stopped by court injunction resulting from a suit brought by restaurant owners. Ultimately, the county exec agreed to limit dining to 25% if the suit was dropped. So, at some level, they were willing to follow some health guidelines. Where is the line? If you think that none should apply, even 75% capacity should be challenged. Mandatory masks should also be challenged too based on that logic.

 

[dusty red roads]

Current scenario in Japan is they should be announcing a State of Emergency for Tokyo and surrounding areas on the 8th, going into effect on the 9th for a month, and during that period they'll try and rush-prep for vaccinations starting in mid Feb.

It's not a lockdown as per other countries, so think of it as a 'soft lockdown' - not sure yet what that entails, except it looks highly likely that restaurants and bars etc will have stop serving alcohol by 7pm and close by 8pm. Not sure about other closures at this point, last time schools etc were closed, I think I read somewhere that this won't happen but don't quote me on it.

I sure hope the gvt plans on some more support for people whose work has been affected. There is a new budget being put together but at this point not sure who/what it's supporting. I know they pay venues something for closing early, but not enough to really compensate for lost expenses.

I had read previously they were planning to begin vaccinations in Feb, to medical, elderly, 'at risk' people, while main population wouldn't get them till April/May. So I'm not sure if they're trying to speed up that process or it's just Japan-talk to make it look like they're doing more than they are.

Edit to add: this will be the 2nd State of Emergency - the previous one began last April and ran for about 6-8 weeks. The numbers back then were a lot lower so it was lifted I think end of May.

 

[djpbaltimore]

One thing I am seeing a lot this morning is the insinuation that flu cases are being mis-categorized as COVID and that is why Flu cases are so low. On the crazy scale from one to 10, that is a 100. That is Qanon level nuts.

Another area where the science got highjacked inappropriately to justify arguments like "we are nearing herd immunity". There is a ton of jargon in the paper, but its conclusions are rather profound. A cursory summary would be something like.... Young people have good T cells. Many old people don't, so they rely on weak cross reactive T cells from previous infections which aren't good enough to be protective.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1346107704465612802

View: https://twitter.com/apoorva_nyc/status/1346107704465612802