Bad sunburns by the looks of it. Beaches are now closed in Florida. So, that should put a dent in the party.
- Aug 6, 2010
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Not being allowed to walk your dog is way too extreme (especially if you live in the suburbs or out in the country, and not in the middle of a city). I am walking my dogs daily and it is very rare to cross paths with others (and if you do you can potentially cross to the other side of the street). And it might be the dogs that drag us out of the house, but the walk is as healthy for us as it is for them.
- May 11, 2013
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2498 in intensive care. This number also goes up every day. There's still a long way to go.
- Jul 28, 2015
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There is, simply they can't, if they would have been able to probably we wouldn't even be with the whole country in lockdown now. But instead after a week and 50.000+ denounced we still are with people going to parks to sunbathe and have pic-nics, genius mothers organizing clandestine classes at home, drug and alcohol addicted students that continue with illegal rave parties, runners and cyclists that still go out in groups and god knows how many others spreading the virus with their idiocy and infected and deaths continue to rise with people that respect the rules doing it for nothing.
- Feb 20, 2012
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People will always get restricted because of the stupidity of a minority. It's what so many things are based on.
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,942
- 44,327
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Not just a long way to go. But it's increasing while hospitals are at the absolute limit in some regions already. That's the scary thing. From what I understand the numbers from Lombardy are no longer reliable cause they have to turn away so many people and they're dying in their homes.
- Jul 28, 2015
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In Lombardia in about ten days they doubled up the intensive care places, other than that they sent people away to other regions every day and still they have to let people die because there aren't enough places for everyone. But I think also other regions now are in the same situation.
In Lombardia they even end up without places in cemeteries, yesterday they showed army trucks full of corpses going out of cemeteries in the Bergamo area without revealing the destination, I won't be surprised if they create a sort of mass grave like in wartime.
- Feb 20, 2012
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Disagree with what?
I like my freedom too, but I really disagree people should just have the liberty to be running public health hazards. At some point you start weighing the puny amount of freedom you're arguing about to the extreme cost, and it doesn't really look that idealistic anymore.
Nirvana was fantasising about authoritarian states in europe since they apparently work better in this one extreme situation. It's not about giving up some freedom for a couple of weeks. It may be that this state will continue for many months, some studies suggest up to one and a half years. I tell you now, Europeans will not stay indoors for a year. And when they are forced to using military? We are approaching dystopian times should this really occur. Our society wouldn't survive that.
And just to make this very clear, I'm not supporting people going on spring break or huge St.Patricks day parties. That's stupid. Walking the dog, having a bike ride even with one or two friends is not!
- Jul 28, 2015
- 3,123
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That was three days ago with 40% still around, from today data in the city of Milan alone almost 700 new infected that with the actual testing policy means that are at least in serious conditions. If a Bergamo like situation will happen in Milan we will count the deaths by thousands per day.
milano.repubblica.it
Call me crazy but I find incredible crying for the rights in this situation, until I have fresh water, electricity and food they could even transform this country in a Soviet Republic for an year if this is what is needed to block this virus as early as possible and with the least losses possible. Though I really doubt that there is someone in the Western Europe interested in using the virus to start a dictatorship, if they say that we should stay at home is for our health not to turn all of us in slaves and erase every rights forever, thinking that is full blown paranoia.
Coronavirus Lombardia, 1.959 decessi, +319 su ieri. Fontana: "Presto non più in grado di aiutare chi si ammala"
Il presidente della Regione: "State a casa o saremo più aggressivi". La Lombardia ha chiesto alle compagnie telefoniche di monitorare i movime…
Call me crazy but I find incredible crying for the rights in this situation, until I have fresh water, electricity and food they could even transform this country in a Soviet Republic for an year if this is what is needed to block this virus as early as possible and with the least losses possible. Though I really doubt that there is someone in the Western Europe interested in using the virus to start a dictatorship, if they say that we should stay at home is for our health not to turn all of us in slaves and erase every rights forever, thinking that is full blown paranoia.
- Aug 6, 2010
- 6,884
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This is a very informative article on the situation in Italy concerning the corona virus:
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/worl...italy/ar-BB11qA65?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignout
But let's crunch some other numbers.
The media can throw up statistics that seem more massive than they really are. And yes, almost 500 people dying just from the corona virus in Italy in ONE day is a big deal. But let's put this in a little bit more perspective. Humans die, all the time. Especially the elderly. In 2017 (I assume a reasonably random/average year) in Australia, approximately 290 people aged 75 or over died....each day. 290! Yes, our world population is 7.2 billion, which means that every day a lot of humans are born, and a lot of humans die.
Australia's population is 24 million. Italy's is 60 million. So we need to times 290 by 2.5, which gives us 725 elderly deaths per day, CV or not. In fact, this average is probably higher because Italy has an aging population and a higher percentage of smokers.
It is logical to think that many of those who are unfortunately currently being killed by the CV, would have died rather soon anyway.
But isn't anyone dying before their time a tragedy? Yes it is. But now we come to my point of discussion (yes, this will be a TLDR piece....if you even made it this far LOL). It is the battle of the lesser of two evils, or the lesser of two combined groups of evils.
Some (please add others that I will be forgetting) of the arguments for greater restrictions in the face of this pandemic:
I am imagining for a moment that I am 80 years old. Let's say that I only have one month to live, if all goes well. So if the CV virus takes me earlier, then that isn't a big deal, is it?
Not really. But what about other factors? What about what happens in the process of my death?
Because life is largely about this: The attempt to increase pleasure, and the attempt to reduce pain. That's it. Pure and simple.
I would imagine that dying from the CV could be much more painful for the victim then what dying in one's sleep would be. It could be an extremely painful death. This needs to be taken into consideration.
There is also the factor of over run hospital systems, which has a negative flow on effect to societies in far more ways than I can imagine. But in Italy right now things are bad. Very bad.
There are a small - but significant - percentage of younger people who suffer from serious medical conditions, who, if the CV gets to them, will almost certainly be killed. This is actually more serious than the elderly, because these are people losing potentially, 20, 50, 80 years of life. And although they may not have the fitness to be able to dance at Belgrave like you and me, they can still derive happiness in other ways.
The deaths of people before their time has a great negative impact on those people that are close to them, and because this virus spreads like the flu, will also result in a lot of self-blame for such deaths.
Now for some (please add others that I will be forgetting) of the arguments for lesser restrictions in the face of this pandemic:
Potential economic meltdown. Depending on how long lockdowns go on for, some businesses might never return, and given that these will be mostly small businesses, we could be living in a world where the rich are even richer and more powerful than before - and as someone else has very correctly pointed out - and a weakened middle class.
Economic downturn leads to more crime, which will also lead to more deaths (as well as a lower quality of life). The extent of this will probably vary depending on the stability of the country. Australia might be able to survive a longer lockdown than Brazil. In fact, that is almost certainly so.
Less performing/viewing of sport/art, and less people working, leads to an unhappier society, and again this will lead to more violence. There will be an increase in suicides. Which can actually be discussed in a similar way to the elderly dying as a result of the CV. Because in some cases of suicide, perhaps that person was a ticking time bomb, and may have killed themselves six months later when something else tipped them over the edge. Either or either, this is all another point of discussion.
Short summary: How many more deaths of the elderly will there be in 2020 vs. 2019? Maybe there will not be THAT many more. Although no matter the outcome of that, there will always be the arguments that we should have restricted our lives more, or less.
What if elderly deaths increase by 25%, but suicides double? What if crime doubles? For now I think that lockdowns (or close to that) is the way to go, but the question is, how long can we all survive that?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/worl...italy/ar-BB11qA65?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignout
| Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy? The coronavirus pandemic is exacting a heavy toll on Italy, with hospitals overwhelmed and a nationwide lockdown imposed. But experts are also concerned about a seemingly high death rate, with the ... www.msn.com |
But let's crunch some other numbers.
The media can throw up statistics that seem more massive than they really are. And yes, almost 500 people dying just from the corona virus in Italy in ONE day is a big deal. But let's put this in a little bit more perspective. Humans die, all the time. Especially the elderly. In 2017 (I assume a reasonably random/average year) in Australia, approximately 290 people aged 75 or over died....each day. 290! Yes, our world population is 7.2 billion, which means that every day a lot of humans are born, and a lot of humans die.
Australia's population is 24 million. Italy's is 60 million. So we need to times 290 by 2.5, which gives us 725 elderly deaths per day, CV or not. In fact, this average is probably higher because Italy has an aging population and a higher percentage of smokers.
It is logical to think that many of those who are unfortunately currently being killed by the CV, would have died rather soon anyway.
But isn't anyone dying before their time a tragedy? Yes it is. But now we come to my point of discussion (yes, this will be a TLDR piece....if you even made it this far LOL). It is the battle of the lesser of two evils, or the lesser of two combined groups of evils.
Some (please add others that I will be forgetting) of the arguments for greater restrictions in the face of this pandemic:
I am imagining for a moment that I am 80 years old. Let's say that I only have one month to live, if all goes well. So if the CV virus takes me earlier, then that isn't a big deal, is it?
Not really. But what about other factors? What about what happens in the process of my death?
Because life is largely about this: The attempt to increase pleasure, and the attempt to reduce pain. That's it. Pure and simple.
I would imagine that dying from the CV could be much more painful for the victim then what dying in one's sleep would be. It could be an extremely painful death. This needs to be taken into consideration.
There is also the factor of over run hospital systems, which has a negative flow on effect to societies in far more ways than I can imagine. But in Italy right now things are bad. Very bad.
There are a small - but significant - percentage of younger people who suffer from serious medical conditions, who, if the CV gets to them, will almost certainly be killed. This is actually more serious than the elderly, because these are people losing potentially, 20, 50, 80 years of life. And although they may not have the fitness to be able to dance at Belgrave like you and me, they can still derive happiness in other ways.
The deaths of people before their time has a great negative impact on those people that are close to them, and because this virus spreads like the flu, will also result in a lot of self-blame for such deaths.
Now for some (please add others that I will be forgetting) of the arguments for lesser restrictions in the face of this pandemic:
Potential economic meltdown. Depending on how long lockdowns go on for, some businesses might never return, and given that these will be mostly small businesses, we could be living in a world where the rich are even richer and more powerful than before - and as someone else has very correctly pointed out - and a weakened middle class.
Economic downturn leads to more crime, which will also lead to more deaths (as well as a lower quality of life). The extent of this will probably vary depending on the stability of the country. Australia might be able to survive a longer lockdown than Brazil. In fact, that is almost certainly so.
Less performing/viewing of sport/art, and less people working, leads to an unhappier society, and again this will lead to more violence. There will be an increase in suicides. Which can actually be discussed in a similar way to the elderly dying as a result of the CV. Because in some cases of suicide, perhaps that person was a ticking time bomb, and may have killed themselves six months later when something else tipped them over the edge. Either or either, this is all another point of discussion.
Short summary: How many more deaths of the elderly will there be in 2020 vs. 2019? Maybe there will not be THAT many more. Although no matter the outcome of that, there will always be the arguments that we should have restricted our lives more, or less.
What if elderly deaths increase by 25%, but suicides double? What if crime doubles? For now I think that lockdowns (or close to that) is the way to go, but the question is, how long can we all survive that?
- Jul 28, 2015
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Even old people are doing illegal parties 
www.ansa.it
40 positivi dopo festa, Fondi zona rossa - Ultima ora - Ansa.it
Divieto di entrata ed uscita dal comune di Fondi, in provincia di Latina, che riduce drasticamente tutte le sue attività, compresa quella del mercato ortofrutticolo, dopo che si sono registrati 40 casi di positività al coronavirus. (ANSA)
www.ansa.it
- Apr 15, 2014
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There's no reason to lump idiots that organize parties together with people who walk their dog or go for a bike ride. The first can spread corona, the second can't. I don't like the idea of collective punishment, it's not because some people are irresponsible, that everyone needs to be punished. Within tight boundaries, life should be able to go on as much as possible. Other countries (Singapore, Taiwan) prove that you do not require imprisonment to stop or slow the virus. Let's keep a cool head here, even though this is obviously difficult if you're living in a country that has been hit so hard.
- Jan 4, 2020
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"France has tightened the rules of who can go out by banning cycling and demanding runners and walkers limit the distance they take from home to a maximum 1-2km and 20minutes. "
These kind of measures are really silly. Maybe they are supposed to make people realize it's serious, but I think it might instead make people think the measures in general are simply stupid.
These kind of measures are really silly. Maybe they are supposed to make people realize it's serious, but I think it might instead make people think the measures in general are simply stupid.
- Feb 20, 2012
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Oh it's not like those people who think that's stupid abide by quarantine rules anyway.
- Jul 30, 2011
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The tech execs who don't agree with 'soul-stealing' coronavirus safety measures
‘If we wish to maintain our productivity, we need to continue working in [our] offices,’ one CEO told his staff in an email
- May 5, 2010
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How is that guy… real? He looks like the - badly exagarrated - party-frat-boy stereotype from some bad teen movie.
- Jul 28, 2015
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If they are in groups (and cyclists almost always are) it's not so different from having a party in a backyard and the same works for people that use the dog as an excuse to meet with others. With a person alone, except some extreme cases like runners escaped in the woods or people that walked 20 kms both police and the army have closed an eye or even two until now but is becoming a problem if almost half of the population is still around and the virus continues to spread.
Yesterday both the Protezione Civile and the Lombardia government said that after almost two weeks of lockdown they were expecting to see at least a minor effect not a continuous increase helped by a lot of people that are violating the measures and for this reason they are asking the government to make strictier ones.
- Feb 20, 2012
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- Jul 28, 2015
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And in Lombardia the situation continues to worsen...
www.tgcom24.mediaset.it
Coronavirus, in Lombardia 9 morti su 10 mai giunti in terapia intensiva
In provincia di Bergamo, la più colpita, i tempi di attesa per un'ambulanza arrivano fino a sette ore. Gli operatori sanitari parlano di "medicina delle catastrofi"
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,942
- 44,327
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9/10 ICU patients die?And in Lombardia the situation continues to worsen...
Coronavirus, in Lombardia 9 morti su 10 mai giunti in terapia intensiva
In provincia di Bergamo, la più colpita, i tempi di attesa per un'ambulanza arrivano fino a sette ore. Gli operatori sanitari parlano di "medicina delle catastrofi"
Also why did I originally type UCI
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