Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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I know that in the USA, most of the anti vax (anti mask...) people at the protests are "larger than is healthy", so we can assume what will happen to them.
I don't know; you'd have to link some video of anti-vaxx protests - so I can see for myself if "they're larger than is healthy."

I don't care about the anti-mask protests which I think are stupid anyway because I'm very much pro-mask now as it's clear it's the best weapon in stopping the spread.

Maybe you're participating at some of these anti-vaxx protests since you seem to know? Lol.
 
I think a lot of this teeters close to the vaccine autism pseudoscience discourse. Autism tends to happen at an age when kids are getting a lot of vaccines. People seek to find a link for why and they reach out for an easy answer. Now we have a situation where older people and people with existing pathologies are getting vaccinated. They have medical issues afterwards, but how can you really claim individual instances are conclusively due to the vaccine? I've mentioned this ad nauseam but so much of our vaccine discussion is rooted in how anti-vaxxers have framed the discussion even if we don't realize it. Vaccines are a victim of their own success. There are few, if any, medical procedures that have less side effects given the extreme benefits to society.

Safe is a subjective term. People in my neighborhood tried to stop the light rail from stopping here because they didn't feel safe because it brought 'crime'. To me, vaccines are safe in the same way that driving on the highway is safe or flying in a plane is safe. That doesn't mean that there is no risk, but that risk is so small as to be effectively zero.
 
I don't know; you'd have to link some video of anti-vaxx protests - so I can see for myself if "they're larger than is healthy."

I don't care about the anti-mask protests which I think are stupid anyway because I'm very much pro-mask now as it's clear it's the best weapon in stopping the spread.

Maybe you're participating at some of these anti-vaxx protests since you seem to know? Lol.
You clearly haven't been following this thread because I've been encouraging masks more than anyone for a year now. Plus, I've had both of my shots.

If you want footage, just watch the news.
 
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I agree with the bolded part. The nutrition part is not something you can just snap your fingers and change on a dime. We should work to eliminate those conditions independent of COVID-19, but making people healthy is not something that happens after a month in the gym. There are a lot of issues with fresh food availability that are beyond the scope of the thread.


View: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1372540703188860940
As far as I can see the data on the 18-49 non-vaccinated group that was hospitalized doesn't show whether or not any pre-existing conditions were present with this particular group (e.g., hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc.).

Some people have a tendency to think that these well known pre-existing conditions are exclusive to the older demographics (e.g. 70+). However, these high-risk conditions are present in the younger age groups as well, especially diabetes & obesity. I actually know a few guys at the gym who are in their mid-30s, overweight and diabetic. They're trying to lose weight and get in better shape so they can go off their meds. They realize they are higher-risk and I think most of them want the vaccine.

Additionally, what's with the 18-49 age spectrum? That's a 31 yr age span - I'd like to see what the 18-29, 30-39, and so on looks like instead of lumping 18 yr olds with 49 yr olds.
 
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You clearly haven't been following this thread because I've been encouraging masks more than anyone for a year now. Plus, I've had both of my shots.

If you want footage, just watch the news.
I've clearly followed this thread and I know you're pro-mask and pro-vaccine. I'm very much pro-mask as well and on your side on that issue.

I'm glad you got both of your shots with little or no side-effects (?). I hope it gives you comfort and the protection from getting sick if you contract the virus. I, on the hand, prefer to forgo the vaccine for reasons that I've posted here before. That may make me an "anti-vaxxer" in your eyes as well as some other people here (it's definitely labeled me as an anti-vaxxer on other Covid discussion forums that I post on as I've caught the wrath from pro-vaxx tyrants for my decision in declining the vaccine).

You feel comfortable taking the vaccine and I don't - so why not respect each other's decision?
 
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I know that in the USA, most of the anti vax (anti mask...) people at the protests are "larger than is healthy", so we can assume what will happen to them.
As an American things are very complicated, We have 545,000+ people dead. At issue for the general population, they are dead so if you don't know anyone who died,one important question is why? And the health officials say that there look to be some common factors for fatalities, obesity is often listed as a contributor. @40% of Americans obese @70% overweight..Hypertension also listed as a contributor for poor Covid outcomes..And it's commonly accepted that huge percentages of food and drinks consumed by America are harmful even after low level consumption, and diabetes was a undiscussed pandemic before this pandemic and with little surprise,diabetes makes the list for Covid complications.
And as a constant undercurrent,no healthcare, poor health care,lack of access and distrust of health care and government in endless combinations has got America leading the world in death,infection and overall chaos.
I think that any county,any peoples talking of herd immunity have obviously never been out to eat,to Wal-Mart,Target or any airport..The herd in need of immunity is the planet..The U.S. will be suffering from a Covid hangover even if a cure was discovered today by close of business because of selfish myopic thinking that was killing us before Covid 19..
So where do we start? The pandemic showed everyone needs...internet,health care,homes ,work place safety..and dozens of other things that harm all of us when a minority of us go without..
545,000+ still dead so are we so much on our heals that we are not preparing for the next pandemic,because we know it is coming..
The herd is everyone everywhere
 
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There was a very, very good article about the ones against corona-measures and vaccinations in Germany recently, but unfortunately it's behind a paywall now.


Because in Germany that "Querdenker" movement (like, cross-thinkers-movement? :confused: ) is not too easily put into a category. There is a very right wing part, which even consists of neo-nazis. But the even bigger part seems to be very left wing/ green/ esoteric. Those people are close to Rudolf Steiner's thinking and the Waldorf schools. In their demos, those groups meet and surprisingly have a certain common ground, although they otherwise don't want much to do with each other. But then, there were other times, when this was similar, when there was a "back to nature" romanticism, going against the complexities of the modern times...
Anyway, what these people unites (that's why the article is called "radical heartpeople") is a longing for a deeper meaning of things in a spiritual way and the believe that the healthy human body deals with diseases and illnesses on its own. If it doesn't, it's because you don't live right (right wing: you're weak and lazy, left wing: you don't take care of yourself, your body and mind are torn apart, when they should be one).
Often there is also a deep mistrust of authorities, a willingness to believe in "deeper" explanations, secret societies, a hidden truth.

Personally, I haven't met any of the more aggressive type, but many of the soft version, esoteric women who are otherwise smart and lovely, want peace and people to live in harmony. They just can't help themselves. Their longing to believe is bigger than anything else.
 
I've clearly followed this thread and I know you're pro-mask and pro-vaccine. I'm very much pro-mask as well and on your side on that issue.

I'm glad you got both of your shots with little or no side-effects (?). I hope it gives you comfort and the protection from getting sick if you contract the virus. I, on the hand, prefer to forgo the vaccine for reasons that I've posted here before. That may make me an "anti-vaxxer" in your eyes as well as some other people here (it's definitely labeled me as an anti-vaxxer on other Covid discussion forums that I post on as I've caught the wrath from pro-vaxx tyrants for my decision in declining the vaccine).

You feel comfortable taking the vaccine and I don't - so why not respect each other's decision?
The difference is that I chose to get the vaccine based on science, you chose not to get the vaccine because vitamin D is better, I don't respect that. I chose to get the vaccine to protect myself and hopefully others, you chose not to because vitamin D is better, again, I can't respect that. I will admit that I had you on ignore for quite a while so maybe you posted some research based reason for not getting the vax that I missed.

Edit: I hope that you never get cancer, but if you do will you go with what oncologists recommend or make your own 'cure'. If you have heart issues, will you listen to the cardiologists, or just wing it? Of course the difference is those two aren't communicable.
 
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Anyway, what these people unites (that's why the article is called "radical heartpeople") is a longing for a deeper meaning of things in a spiritual way and the believe that the healthy human body deals with diseases and illnesses on its own. If it doesn't, it's because you don't live right (right wing: you're weak and lazy, left wing: you don't take care of yourself, your body and mind are torn apart, when they should be one).
Often there is also a deep mistrust of authorities, a willingness to believe in "deeper" explanations, secret societies, a hidden truth.

Personally, I haven't met any of the more aggressive type, but many of the soft version, esoteric women who are otherwise smart and lovely, want peace and people to live in harmony. They just can't help themselves. Their longing to believe is bigger than anything else.
There are many like that on this side of the Atlantic too. The most extreme are the paleo types who also eat raw food. The common bond is a mindset where getting immunity through infection is seen as the best route. IMO, that type of thinking can coexist in a society where the rest of population is immune through vaccines and things like measles and polio are not endemic. That way they can talk the talk without having to walk the walk. In my experience, this group are also big into homeopathy. The cure for what ails you is invariably some natural supplement that is being hawked.

California is known for that type of thing, but one story that does not get enough attention is how well San Francisco did. If the rest of the US had their mortality rate, there would be over 300k fewer deaths. Some of what happened over the last year was unavoidable due to a once in a generation (or lifetime) virus, but it also must be remembered that a lot of these deaths were wholly preventable.

View: https://twitter.com/Aaron_Glantz/status/1372561836004974592
 
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I guess we can play semantics with "safe" all day, but 37 out of 17+ Mil (actually maybe as high as 35 Mil) is safe in my mind. There isn't any treatment (medical/prescription/OTC) that is safer than that.

Germany had 18 cases alone (yesterday, didn't check for updates today), which is 1 in ~100.000. So I guess the numbers are unlikely to be that low in the end - or it may be related to the fact that AZ was mainly used for younger people over here, which seem to have a higher risk due to better immune response
 
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Germany had 18 cases alone (yesterday, didn't check for updates today), which is 1 in ~100.000. So I guess the numbers are unlikely to be that low in the end - or it may be related to the fact that AZ was mainly used for younger people over here, which seem to have a higher risk due to better immune response
True, it might be too early to tell. Was the 18 part of the 37 reported or in addition to? The numbers I read for Germany were 13 out of 1.6 mil, obviously a worse ratio than 37 out of 17-35 Mil.

Some info (this was the only one I could find without a paywall...there are other sources if you are a subscriber):

 
True, it might be too early to tell. Was the 18 part of the 37 reported or in addition to? The numbers I read for Germany were 13 out of 1.6 mil, obviously a worse ratio than 37 out of 17-35 Mil.

yes, seems like you're right, some expert said 18 on tv, but apparently that was a number for EU or something like that, not exclusively in Germany.
 
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The difference is that I chose to get the vaccine based on science, you chose not to get the vaccine because vitamin D is better, I don't respect that. I chose to get the vaccine to protect myself and hopefully others, you chose not to because vitamin D is better, again, I can't respect that. I will admit that I had you on ignore for quite a while so maybe you posted some research based reason for not getting the vax that I missed.
Not just the D3 but because I eat a very healthy diet (no junk and everything organic) and I'm a fitness fanatic/age-group athlete, I trust my immune system to effectively fight off viral & bacterial infections. And that's exactly what my immune did when my son & I were stricken with a case of the severe flu last Feb, 2020.

As a baby boomer, I've also had all those childhood viruses (mumps, measles, chickenpox, etc.) and I'm still here. Lol. And several years sgo, I took the flu shot and got real ill afterwards - so no more of that. I just don't fear these viruses like many other people do. You be surprised how healthy eating and regular excercise can go a long way in keeping your immune system healthy.

Edit: I hope that you never get cancer, but if you do will you go with what oncologists recommend or make your own 'cure'. If you have heart issues, will you listen to the cardiologists, or just wing it? Of course the difference is those two aren't communicable.
It would depend on what kind of cancer and what type of treatments are recommended. And on the cardio issues, definitely not worried. A few years back I had a treadmill test and some other screening. Came out with a cardio fitness level that was off the charts for my age (55 at the time) and comparable to a fit 25 yr old. I'm currently doing Silver Era Bodybuilding training (1940s/50s style) and some running & triathlons. 7 days a week training, healthy eating, good sleep & supplements works for me.

And at the gym, I've got other friends & acquaintances, young & old, male & female, conservatives & liberals who are also fitness fanatics and eat healthy who are not interested in taking the vaccine either.
 
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Not just the D3 but because I eat a very healthy diet (no junk and everything organic) and I'm a fitness fanatic/age-group athlete, I trust my immune system to effectively fight off viral & bacterial infections. And that's exactly what my immune did when my son & I were stricken with a case of the severe flu last Feb, 2020.

As a baby boomer, I've also had all those childhood viruses (mumps, measles, chickenpox, etc.) and I'm still here. Lol. And several years sgo, I took the flu shot and got real ill afterwards - so no more of that. I just don't fear these viruses like many other people do. You be surprised how healthy eating and regular excercise can go a long way in keeping your immune system healthy.


It would depend on what kind of cancer and what type of treatments are recommended. And on the cardio issues, definitely not worried. A few years back I had a treadmill test and some other screening. Came out with a cardio fitness level that was off the charts for my age (55 at the time) and comparable to a fit 25 yr old. I'm currently doing Silver Era Bodybuilding training (1940s/50s style) and some running & triathlons. 7 days a week training, healthy eating, good sleep & supplements works for me.

And at the gym, I've got other friends & acquaintances, young & old, male & female, conservatives & liberals who are also fitness fanatics and eat healthy who are not interested in taking the vaccine either.
I can 'me too' to all of your first stuff. I've eaten healthy all of my life because my parents were 'health food nuts' so thankfully to them I've always eaten well. If you'll recall, I have talked about how eating a balanced diet is the key to health, not mega dosing supplements. I have also been an athlete my entire life, including being a pro mountain bike racer for many years, and I still ride about 250 days a year with hiking, jogging, weights tossed in for some variety so my fitness is not too shabby. I too have a very strong immune system , and likely wouldn't get very sick from COVID, but I also want to protect those around me (family, friends, colleagues).

"You be surprised how healthy eating and regular exercise can go a long way in keeping your immune system healthy." Yes, because you are the only one on the forum who knows this.

Your second bit...head shaking. You know more than the oncologists about how to treat cancer? What IF you do have cardio issues? Are you going to megadose your way out of it. You don't worry about cardio issues? That's very uniformed of you because while fitness may help, it doesn't change genetics. Look at the healthy young people, and 40 year old elite athletes who have cardio issues. Does Silver Era Training prevent heart valve issues?

I hope that you don't get sick with COVID, cancer, cardio, or pass COVID to others, but your way of thinking (about this anyway) is self centered and arrogant.

EDIT: credit where credit is due: I'm glad that you wear a mask to limit the spread if you do get COVID.

EDIT2: its interesting that you're so confident in your immune system when a garden variety influenza knocked you out last year (two weeks right?) and as you said then "took all of your fitness".
 
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I don't get the ratios..So if Germany has 18 total cases..@80,000,000 people..1:100,000?
California..@40,000,000 people..in San Diego we had 421 cases yesterday..that's one county in far Southern California w a total population of 2 million.. So is California? Germany or San Diego..doing really bad or really good? I know for certain that with or without spring break and Easter coming up..anybody and everyone in San Diego,in California would settle for Germany's infection rate..we just got to open restaurants to 25% capacity for indoor dining..
Local officials are all over the map w fans attending school sporting events..went from nobody..skip..3-4 days..extreme pressure from the public..2 immediate family members per player for outdoor sports..wait 2 days more..4 family members per player..I am holding my breath for the ticket takers at High school football games..first who and how are you going to validate what is an " immediate family member "..sounds like another underthought mess....
And although California is a really large state..most of the population lives in what most people consider good weather,year round. 99% of the total population have cabin fever and want everything open today.. People lets say in a traditional weather state like..Idaho..when the snow subsides and it's starts getting Spring time pleasant..I would not want to be a public official saying no to anything..I think that this is going to be the summer of crazy in the US..
 
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I don't get the ratios..So if Germany has 18 total cases..@80,000,000 people..1:100,000?
California..@40,000,000 people..in San Diego we had 421 cases yesterday..that's one county in far Southern California w a total population of 2 million.. So is California? Germany or San Diego..doing really bad or really good? I know for certain that with or without spring break and Easter coming up..anybody and everyone in San Diego,in California would settle for Germany's infection rate..we just got to open restaurants to 25% capacity for indoor dining..
Local officials are all over the map w fans attending school sporting events..went from nobody..skip..3-4 days..extreme pressure from the public..2 immediate family members per player for outdoor sports..wait 2 days more..4 family members per player..I am holding my breath for the ticket takers at High school football games..first who and how are you going to validate what is an " immediate family member "..sounds like another underthought mess....
And although California is a really large state..most of the population lives in what most people consider good weather,year round. 99% of the total population have cabin fever and want everything open today.. People lets say in a traditional weather state like..Idaho..when the snow subsides and it's starts getting Spring time pleasant..I would not want to be a public official saying no to anything..I think that this is going to be the summer of crazy in the US..
We were discussing the ratio of blood clots to doses given for AZ. 37/17 Mil (in EU overall) I think that 18 wasn't accurate for Germany though.
 
Researchers have found that the AZ issues are real, though very rare. In some patients (predominantly younger people), the immune response is so strong, that the body starts reacting to its own blood platelets (attacking them). It's similar to "HIT syndrome", and they also know how to treat it. Also for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, something similar has been found, which in the article I read (in Dutch) was referred to as ITP, and was also very rare.
 
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There was 4th round of testing for variants here in Slovakia. There was 1752 tested samples and british strain was detected 1704 times (97,3%). South African 9 times (0,5 %). It seems that british strain can beat SA strain. However in Slovakia we had more than 75 % of british when SA occur and cases were mostly imported and contacts traced. But vaccination is more effective for british. So I am curious about next development where vaccination will influence this process.
 
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Man I am glad that got cleared up!! Even 500,700,1000 blood clots w the number of vaccines given and the expansive variety of people that have received it would appear inconsequential.
It is my humble opinion,based on a few dozen things I have read about the overall vaccine development,it's one of the greatest accomplishments in vaccine history.
It would be hard to characterize most of the worlds response to Covid 19 as lackluster. From what I have seen lots of leaders have done things that are ultra unpopular,economically devastating,and political suicide,all after being given facts and alternative strategies for the pandemic fight. But lots of posts here from sources all over talk about the constantly evolving variations of the virus and what looks like equally evolving danger. I really don't see what else can be done to get current vaccines into the world's population. It looks like a fantastic responsibility is in the hands of the drug makers to come up with another defense,when nobody knows for sure if the current one is a success or failure. I have read that there are significant advantages to the vaccine technology being used for modification against variants..we can only hope..
In the United States, we have riot police calming young party going students who can't see any risk to themselves. Texas Roadhouse restaurant founder kills himself because the after effects of the virus became unbearable..And a doctor and a congressman..Rand Paul is in yet another argument over wearing a mask at a gym.
It looks like the scientists have pulled off miracle after miracle but I think what we really need is a vaccine for dumb..or a variant for selfish and stupid.
If mutations are a normal part of this..it's looking like no sooner than you are done getting a dose of original Covid vaccine you will have to line up to get Covid rev 2..just like new IPhones every few months..
 
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Man I am glad that got cleared up!! Even 500,700,1000 blood clots w the number of vaccines given and the expansive variety of people that have received it would appear inconsequential.
It is my humble opinion,based on a few dozen things I have read about the overall vaccine development,it's one of the greatest accomplishments in vaccine history.
It would be hard to characterize most of the worlds response to Covid 19 as lackluster. From what I have seen lots of leaders have done things that are ultra unpopular,economically devastating,and political suicide,all after being given facts and alternative strategies for the pandemic fight. But lots of posts here from sources all over talk about the constantly evolving variations of the virus and what looks like equally evolving danger. I really don't see what else can be done to get current vaccines into the world's population. It looks like a fantastic responsibility is in the hands of the drug makers to come up with another defense,when nobody knows for sure if the current one is a success or failure. I have read that there are significant advantages to the vaccine technology being used for modification against variants..we can only hope..
In the United States, we have riot police calming young party going students who can't see any risk to themselves. Texas Roadhouse restaurant founder kills himself because the after effects of the virus became unbearable..And a doctor and a congressman..Rand Paul is in yet another argument over wearing a mask at a gym.
It looks like the scientists have pulled off miracle after miracle but I think what we really need is a vaccine for dumb..or a variant for selfish and stupid.
If mutations are a normal part of this..it's looking like no sooner than you are done getting a dose of original Covid vaccine you will have to line up to get Covid rev 2..just like new IPhones every few months..

As Moderna has already started human testing of a booster shot aimed at the South African and similar variants (like the one in NYC) it does show that the mRNA vaccines can be modified fairly quickly. Also Moderna and Pfizer are looking at if the booster dose work the way they expect it to, that those who got the original dose will get a booster, but those who haven't had the original will get an updated version.


An anecdotal note about the vaccine and long haul symptoms from Covid. A good friend of my mom's has been sick for months with long haul Covid effects. She got the first dose of the vaccine (I don't know if it was Moderna or Pfizer and it likely doesn't matter) this past week. Within 3 days of having received the first dose she started getting better and specifically her breathing started to really improve. This is just anecdotal, but there are other stories and it appears there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the vaccine does help at least a portion of Covid long haulers improve.