Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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jmdirt

Dec 6, 2013
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Unchained said:
Man I am glad that got cleared up!! Even 500,700,1000 blood clots w the number of vaccines given and the expansive variety of people that have received it would appear inconsequential.
It is my humble opinion,based on a few dozen things I have read about the overall vaccine development,it's one of the greatest accomplishments in vaccine history.
It would be hard to characterize most of the worlds response to Covid 19 as lackluster. From what I have seen lots of leaders have done things that are ultra unpopular,economically devastating,and political suicide,all after being given facts and alternative strategies for the pandemic fight. But lots of posts here from sources all over talk about the constantly evolving variations of the virus and what looks like equally evolving danger. I really don't see what else can be done to get current vaccines into the world's population. It looks like a fantastic responsibility is in the hands of the drug makers to come up with another defense,when nobody knows for sure if the current one is a success or failure. I have read that there are significant advantages to the vaccine technology being used for modification against variants..we can only hope..
In the United States, we have riot police calming young party going students who can't see any risk to themselves. Texas Roadhouse restaurant founder kills himself because the after effects of the virus became unbearable..And a doctor and a congressman..Rand Paul is in yet another argument over wearing a mask at a gym.
It looks like the scientists have pulled off miracle after miracle but I think what we really need is a vaccine for dumb..or a variant for selfish and stupid.
If mutations are a normal part of this..it's looking like no sooner than you are done getting a dose of original Covid vaccine you will have to line up to get Covid rev 2..just like new IPhones every few months..
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Man, a vax for stupid and selfish would make the world such a better place!

Viruses change (mutations, variants...) so there shouldn't be any surprise that this one is.

Idaho republicans refused to wear masks during the session, and now the session is suspended because there is an outbreak. I hope that none of them get really sick or die, but I'd be OK if they don't come back this year (ever) because we can only handle so many voter suppression, and general anti-people bills in one year.
 
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Koronin

Koronin

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Jagartrott

Jagartrott

Apr 15, 2014
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That article is pretty ill-informed. We haven't had a "tough second lockdown since November". In fact, schools have remained open throughout, and apart from a brief period, shops have remained open.

Meanwhile, more shady AZ dealings (Halix is a company in The Netherlands producing vaccine for AZ):

AstraZeneca has not yet sought approval in the EU for Halix, but the official and a second EU source said the request was on its way.

Without regulatory approval, vaccines produced at Halix cannot be used in the EU.
An internal AstraZeneca document seen by Reuters shows that the company expects EU approval on March 25.

AstraZeneca has declined to comment on the amount of vaccines that are currently stockpiled at Halix.

The EU official said the factory had already produced shots, but was not able to quantify the output. Under the EU contract with AstraZeneca, vaccines must be produced before approval and be delivered immediately afterwards.

Two factories in Britain run by Oxford Biomedica and Cobra Biologics are also listed as suppliers to the EU in the contract with AstraZeneca, but no vaccine has so far been shipped from Britain to the EU, despite Brussels’ earlier requests.

Officials have said that Cobra is not fully operational. AstraZeneca told EU officials that the UK is using a clause in its supply contract that prevents export of its vaccines until the British market is fully served, EU officials said.


EU rebuffs UK calls to ship AstraZeneca vaccines from Europe

The European Union is rebuffing British government calls to ship AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccines produced in a factory in the Netherlands, an EU official said on Sunday.

Former EU member Britain has so far administered many more vaccines than EU countries in proportion to the population, reports Reuters.

“The Brits are insisting that the Halix plant in the Netherlands must deliver the drug substance produced there to them. That doesn’t work,” the official told Reuters.

The Leiden-based plant which is run by sub-contractor Halix is listed as a supplier of vaccines in both the contracts that AstraZeneca has signed with Britain and with the European Union.

“What is produced in Halix has to go to the EU,” the official added.

Britain has insisted that contracts must be respected.

“The European Commission will know that the rest of the world is looking at the Commission, about how it conducts itself on this, and if contracts get broken, and undertakings, that is a very damaging thing to happen for a trading bloc that prides itself on the rules of law,” Defence Minister Ben Wallace said on Sky News earlier in answer to a question about Commission President Ursula Von der Leyen’s threat to block exports to Britain.

The EU official said the EU was not breaking any contract.

The European Union threatened on Wednesday to block exports of COVID-19 vaccines to Britain to safeguard scarce doses for its own citizens, with Von der Leyen saying the epidemiological situation was worsening.
 
D

djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
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movingtarget said:
www.theguardian.com

Covid: AstraZeneca vaccine 79% effective with no increased blood clot risk – US trial

Study of over 32,000 people included review of risks of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
That shows very good efficacy in the elderly, which was in question after the earlier trial. Now only if they could figure out how to produce it at scale.

Maybe that will help public approval, because that is where there are serious problems.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1373981839774322691
View: https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1373981839774322691
 
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djpbaltimore

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Greinarcher’s team analyzed 13 cases of cerebral blood clots reported in Germany. The analysis involved 12 women and 1 man who developed blood clots between four and 16 days after inoculation. The researchers were able to isolate and identify the antibodies that caused the overactivation of the platelets. A team at Oslo University Hospital in Norway investigated three cases of post-vaccination blood clots. All three cases involved health care workers under the age of 50 in Norway. One worker has since died.

Professor Pal Andre Holme told the Norwegian newspaper VG that his team has confidently identified the antibodies responsible for the clots. "Our theory that this is a strong immune response that most likely comes after the vaccine," he said, echoing the findings made by the German team. "There is no other thing than the vaccine that can explain this immune response."
Click to expand...
I have been searching for an article that actually explains this beyond these cursory descriptions and I couldn't. No preprint, no article written by a scientist. It sounds like an autoimmune reaction. To make this claim, I would hope that he has blood samples before the vaccinations that show that these antibodies were not present. A big question is whether these antibodies were due to the vaccine or some other cause. I would like to know what evidence he based this conclusion on besides the temporal one, which I don't find terribly convincing on its own.
 
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Nomad

Apr 20, 2016
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jmdirt said:
I too have a very strong immune system , and likely wouldn't get very sick from COVID, but I also want to protect those around me (family, friends, colleagues).
Click to expand...
The vaccines don't do much in stopping transmission - that's what the masks do.

jmdirt said:
Your second bit...head shaking. You know more than the oncologists about how to treat cancer? What IF you do have cardio issues? Are you going to megadose your way out of it. You don't worry about cardio issues? That's very uniformed of you because while fitness may help, it doesn't change genetics. Look at the healthy young people, and 40 year old elite athletes who have cardio issues. Does Silver Era Training prevent heart valve issues?
Click to expand...
WTH? More bravado from you. Why would you concern yourself with what I would do or don't do on treatment issues involving any of those pathologies? If you were to get cancer, heart disease, or any other ailment, I could care less what treatment options you pursue or not - that's entirely your business. And the vast majority of the Silver Era BBs lived long & healthy lives - most well into their 80s and a few into their 90s.

jmdirt said:
I hope that you don't get sick with COVID, cancer, cardio, or pass COVID to others, but your way of thinking (about this anyway) is self centered and arrogant.
Click to expand...
It's your right to think that way and I've been called much worse on other Covid discussion forums for my intention of declining the vaccine. Lol. However, though, I think you're pretentious in your way of thinking for expecting everyone to take the vaccine instead of respecting a person's choice as to what they want to put into their body.

jmdirt said:
EDIT: credit where credit is due: I'm glad that you wear a mask to limit the spread if you do get COVID.
Click to expand...
Well...coming from you that's a helluva compliment! As I said before, I was initially against the masks but have come to realize just how effective they are. Here in Denver, mask compliance has been very good and I've gotten use to wearing mine all the time when leaving the house. I would like to see masks worn indefinitely as it seems the best defense in the stopping the spread of viruses.

jmdirt said:
EDIT2: its interesting that you're so confident in your immune system when a garden variety influenza knocked you out last year (two weeks right?) and as you said then "took all of your fitness".
Click to expand...
You missed the point here. When I was on the mend, I saw my primary care doctor to ascertain if it was "Covid" or the seasonal flu (this was the first week of Feb, 2020, when Covid was in it's infancy and supposedly hadn't reached the U.S. yet). He quickly ruled out Covid and said it wasn't any "garden variety influenza" either but a case of severe flu that he said had been going around the U.S. since the late fall of 2019 (he commented on how his office had seen many severe flu cases in just the last couple of months, as well as explain how dangerous severe flu can be to anyone at any age).

I was checked for walking pneumonia and he said I was lucky that I wasn't hospitalized given my age at the time (58), but credited my fitness level & healthy diet as being a factor in effectively fighting off this virus without any medical intervention (he said, though, I would have a long recovery ahead of me). Now, in hindsight, maybe it was actually Covid and I would eventually like to, as well as my son, get checked for the antibodies. But the point being is that my immune system was able to effectively fight off a medically-confirmed severe influenza bout without any medical intervention.
 
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djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
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The thing is diagnosis is almost more art than science. A lot of doctors will call things flu if they don't have a better diagnosis and you present in the months known as cold and flu season. It is not like there is a whole lot they can do for you. The treatments are rather non-specific, so being right is less important in the grand scheme. Last year Flu was prevalent, unlike this year. Just because COVID was here in February 2020 does not mean that it was common. I tend to doubt that people who were sick but not in NY or Sea or traveling abroad had it then based on purely statistical arguments. But some people do win the lotteries despite low probability.
 
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J

jmdirt

Dec 6, 2013
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Nomad said:
The vaccines don't do much in stopping transmission - that's what the masks do.

WTH? More bravado from you. Why would you concern yourself with what I would do or don't do on treatment issues involving any of those pathologies? If you were to get cancer, heart disease, or any other ailment, I could care less what treatment options you pursue or not - that's entirely your business. And the vast majority of the Silver Era BBs lived long & healthy lives - most well into their 80s and a few into their 90s.


It's your right to think that way and I've been called much worse on other Covid discussion forums for my intention of declining the vaccine. Lol. However, though, I think you're pretentious in your way of thinking for expecting everyone to take the vaccine instead of respecting a person's choice as to what they want to put into their body.

Well...coming from you that's a helluva compliment! As I said before, I was initially against the masks but have come to realize just how effective they are. Here in Denver, mask compliance has been very good and I've gotten use to wearing mine all the time when leaving the house. I would like to see masks worn indefinitely as it seems the best defense in the stopping the spread of viruses.


You missed the point here. When I was on the mend, I saw my primary care doctor to ascertain if it was "Covid" or the seasonal flu (this was the first week of Feb, 2020, when Covid was in it's infancy and supposedly hadn't reached the U.S. yet). He quickly ruled out Covid and said it wasn't any "garden variety influenza" either but a case of severe flu that he said had been going around the U.S. since the late fall of 2019 (he commented on how his office had seen many severe flu cases in just the last couple of months, as well as explain how dangerous severe flu can be to anyone at any age).

I was checked for walking pneumonia and he said I was lucky that I wasn't hospitalized given my age at the time (58), but credited my fitness level & healthy diet as being a factor in effectively fighting off this virus without any medical intervention (he said, though, I would have a long recovery ahead of me). Now, in hindsight, maybe it was actually Covid and I would eventually like to, as well as my son, get checked for the antibodies. But the point being is that my immune system was able to effectively fight off a medically-confirmed severe influenza bout without any medical intervention.
Click to expand...
The 'bravado' is not mine, but yours, you claim to know more than the experts, not me. Plus, you missed the point. I was saying that you are dismissing epidemiologists so would you also dismiss cardiologist, oncologists, etc? And you said that you would.

Your choice not to take the vaccine isn't just personal. You are letting others do the work for you. Its not "my way of thinking" its the entire epidemiology community. I know, you know more than them.
 
J

jmdirt

Dec 6, 2013
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Nomad said:
The vaccines don't do much in stopping transmission - that's what the masks do.

WTH? More bravado from you. Why would you concern yourself with what I would do or don't do on treatment issues involving any of those pathologies? If you were to get cancer, heart disease, or any other ailment, I could care less what treatment options you pursue or not - that's entirely your business. And the vast majority of the Silver Era BBs lived long & healthy lives - most well into their 80s and a few into their 90s.


It's your right to think that way and I've been called much worse on other Covid discussion forums for my intention of declining the vaccine. Lol. However, though, I think you're pretentious in your way of thinking for expecting everyone to take the vaccine instead of respecting a person's choice as to what they want to put into their body.

Well...coming from you that's a helluva compliment! As I said before, I was initially against the masks but have come to realize just how effective they are. Here in Denver, mask compliance has been very good and I've gotten use to wearing mine all the time when leaving the house. I would like to see masks worn indefinitely as it seems the best defense in the stopping the spread of viruses.


You missed the point here. When I was on the mend, I saw my primary care doctor to ascertain if it was "Covid" or the seasonal flu (this was the first week of Feb, 2020, when Covid was in it's infancy and supposedly hadn't reached the U.S. yet). He quickly ruled out Covid and said it wasn't any "garden variety influenza" either but a case of severe flu that he said had been going around the U.S. since the late fall of 2019 (he commented on how his office had seen many severe flu cases in just the last couple of months, as well as explain how dangerous severe flu can be to anyone at any age).

I was checked for walking pneumonia and he said I was lucky that I wasn't hospitalized given my age at the time (58), but credited my fitness level & healthy diet as being a factor in effectively fighting off this virus without any medical intervention (he said, though, I would have a long recovery ahead of me). Now, in hindsight, maybe it was actually Covid and I would eventually like to, as well as my son, get checked for the antibodies. But the point being is that my immune system was able to effectively fight off a medically-confirmed severe influenza bout without any medical intervention.
Click to expand...
That isn't true with other viruses, and the preliminary research with SARSCOV2 is indicating the same. The vaccine reduces viral load, therefore it reduces your potential to infect others.
 
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Koronin

Koronin

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Koronin

Koronin

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Some good news, my husband was able to finally find an appointment for a vaccine and was able to get that today. He got the Pfizer. Now the issue (and we talked to the pharmacist), he can't get it the 2nd dose at 3 weeks due to his work schedule, so needs it at 4 weeks. She said that was fine. 3 weeks is preferred for Pfizer, but work reasons is a big one they see that requires 4 weeks between doses. Hopefully he will have a bit of improvement this week from his long haul Covid symptoms as it does appear that the vaccine does help with that.
 
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djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
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Jagartrott said:
AZ doing what they do best, i.e. messing up:
(note, article contains standard Guardian promo-talk for this particular vaccine at the end)
www.theguardian.com

US agency questions AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine trial data

Drug firm may have provided incomplete view of efficacy data from US trial, says safety monitor
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
AZ has bungled a lot of things, but I think this one is more on the NIH. As near as I can tell, the suggestion is that they are using data from locations and a period of time where the variants were not prevalent, so their efficacy data might not be a true reflection of the vaccine's current efficacy. Novavax and J&J were more upfront on those details in their press releases. But this is something that probably could've been handled in private as the approval of the vaccine is not going to be based on what is in a press release. Or at the very least, the agency should've been more clear what their issue was.
 
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Nomad

Apr 20, 2016
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jmdirt said:
The 'bravado' is not mine, but yours, you claim to know more than the experts, not me. Plus, you missed the point. I was saying that you are dismissing epidemiologists so would you also dismiss cardiologist, oncologists, etc? And you said that you would.
Click to expand...
How can I claim "to know more than the experts" if I'm excercising my informed consent rights on any medical procedures/interventions? Every day in this country, people are getting recommendations from medical professionals to take a certain pharmaceutical(s) or submit to a medical procedure/intervention. Many people after researching the risks vs benefits of the drug or procedure/intervention (or getting a second opinion) decide to forgo the drug or intervention. Are these people claiming to know more than the medical professionals by excercising their informed consent rights and declining the drug(s) or interventions? Over the years, I've refused very strong recommendations from orthopedic surgeons for surgical intervention of rupture tendons & ligaments sustained from sporting activities and a MV accident a few years ago, instead opting for non-surgical rehab - does this mean I know more than the surgeons? I don't think so and I'm simply pursuing the course of action I feel most comfortable with after evaluating the risks vs benefits for the surgical procedures recommended. I support a person's right to choice for any medical procedure or intervention. We can't go down the ominous road where the medical community has control over a person's decision making with medical issues. Medical ethics & informed consent must be adhered to at all times!


jmdirt said:
Your choice not to take the vaccine isn't just personal. You are letting others do the work for you. Its not "my way of thinking" its the entire epidemiology community. I know, you know more than them.
Click to expand...
That's an imperious attitude you have with the Covid vaccines. You obviously don't want me and others to have a personal choice in the matter; therefore you throw out the guilt statement of "letting others do the work for you" and of course the authoritative remark about the "epidemiology community."

I'm excercising informed consent - I feel the risks outweigh the benefits given my excellent health status and that I'm not in a high-risk category. The vaccines were only approved on EUA status and I don't care what the authoritative vaccine manufacturers say about their product being safe - there's isn't any long-term safety data to fairly evaluate the overall safety of the vaccines, and they're also immune from product liability if something goes wrong! (btw, I'm not anti-vaxx as my son has had all his childhood vaccines & boosters and I, myself, had a tetanus shot a few years ago related to some injuries sustained in an MV accident).

The other issue here in Colorado is that cases & hospitalizations started plummeting in mid-December before any of the vaccines were rolled out. Currently, cases and hospitalizations are completely flat (only 333 currently hospitalized for Covid in the entire state and a moving positively rate of 3.97%). This with only 15% of Coloradans being fully vaccinated (80% of over 70). As I mentioned before, if it wasn't for the masks you'd never know there was a pandemic. Things are about as back to normal as I've seen and hardly anyone evens talks about Covid anymore. In fact, the governor says he's lifting the statewide mask mandate on April 4 (which I don't agree with).
 
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Nomad

Apr 20, 2016
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jmdirt said:
That isn't true with other viruses, and the preliminary research with SARSCOV2 is indicating the same. The vaccine reduces viral load, therefore it reduces your potential to infect others.
Click to expand...
According to the World Health Orginization there's still a lot to be determined:

Interim position paper: considerations regarding proof of COVID-19 vaccination for international travellers

Introduction The World Health Organization (WHO) issues regularly updated position papers on vaccines against diseases that have an international public health impact. This paper, which presents WHO’s position on the advisability of requirements for COVID-19 vaccination or proof of vaccination...
www.who.int www.who.int

"A number of scientific unknowns remain concerning the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines: efficacy in preventing disease and limiting transmission, including for variants of SARS-CoV-2; duration of protection offered by vaccination; timing of booster doses; whether vaccination offers protection against asymptomatic infection; age and population groups that should be prioritized for vaccination, specific contraindications, how long before travel vaccines should be offered; and possible exemption of people who have antibodies against SARS-CoV-2."
 
D

djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
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If this is correct, I don't see the rationale for the regulatory board making this such a big issue. Their statement could've said that the approval would be given on the final data and not the interim results that were released. Generating a breaking news cycle like they did does not benefit anyone IMO. Of course, you still have to question the sloppiness of the AZ crew as well. But I think the actual value below is more in line with what I would've expected. I was honestly surprised by the 79%.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1374391006120972293
View: https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1374391006120972293
 
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Jagartrott

Jagartrott

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With the first trial data, AZ also turned it into a PR-event by merging the main trial with one that had gone wrong but accidentally produced better protection. Back then, the real efficacy was 61% iirc, not the 70% they wanted the headlines to be. They have consistently oversold their product, both the efficacy and the output they're able to handle.
 
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O

Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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jmdirt said:
Man, a vax for stupid and selfish would make the world such a better place!

Viruses change (mutations, variants...) so there shouldn't be any surprise that this one is.

Idaho republicans refused to wear masks during the session, and now the session is suspended because there is an outbreak. I hope that none of them get really sick or die, but I'd be OK if they don't come back this year (ever) because we can only handle so many voter suppression, and general anti-people bills in one year.
Click to expand...
Florida Congressman and guy trolling for votes Matt Gaetz indicated he willingly gave permission for his adoptive son to attend Spring Break. In Panama City....one of the worst places to avoid C19 exposure. He announced this to the press. Really.
 
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