Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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Koronin

Koronin

Oct 14, 2017
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On the Pfizer vaccine information. For those who don't remember I work as a vendor, so I'm in multiple different stores and types of stores on a weekly to monthly basis and have good relationships with managers in many of the stores. This week I'm in drug stores. Was talking to a manager of one of the stores of a major drug store chain here. She told me that corporate has told her that it is possible to likely that by the end of January they will start getting Covid vaccines for distribution. Now there will be a preference of who gets vaccines first. This goes along with the reports from Pfizer that are out today.
 
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djpbaltimore

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Koronin said:
On the Pfizer vaccine information. For those who don't remember I work as a vendor, so I'm in multiple different stores and types of stores on a weekly to monthly basis and have good relationships with managers in many of the stores. This week I'm in drug stores. Was talking to a manager of one of the stores of a major drug store chain here. She told me that corporate has told her that it is possible to likely that by the end of January they will start getting Covid vaccines for distribution. Now there will be a preference of who gets vaccines first. This goes along with the reports from Pfizer that are out today.
Click to expand...
Do they have -70 degree storage? The distribution logistics of the Pfizer vaccine are a little trickier than a typical vaccine. That said, it looks like all of the vaccines will work and most of them will not require -70 degrees.
 
Koronin

Koronin

Oct 14, 2017
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djpbaltimore said:
Do they have -70 degree storage? The distribution logistics of the Pfizer vaccine are a little trickier than a typical vaccine. That said, it looks like all of the vaccines will work and most of them will not require -70 degrees.
Click to expand...

I have no idea. Also don't know if it's specifically the Pfizer one or one of the other options either. Now it's also possible the company may invest is small freezers for small quantities to be stored in at specific locations as well.
 
M

Merckx index

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Nomad said:
It's basically the new Democratic-Socialist party vs the Republican party
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That's why Trump and all Republicans have strongly opposed Operation Warp Speed, one of the biggest socialist programs in American history. Billions of our taxpayer money going to companies to develop a vaccine for everyone, instead of letting the companies finance the program themselves, and letting the market decide who can afford to get vaccinated.

That's also why Trump and Republicans are forcefully opposing the opening of public schools, another gigantic socialist program.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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That's why Trump and all Republicans have strongly opposed Operation Warp Speed, one of the biggest socialist programs in American history. Billions of our taxpayer money going to companies to develop a vaccine for everyone, instead of letting the companies finance the program themselves, and letting the market decide who can afford to get vaccinated.

That's also why Trump and Republicans are forcefully opposing the opening of public schools, another gigantic socialist program.
Click to expand...

Well, no and no.

Feds don't own or control the means of production for the vaccine. They are merely throwing tax dollars at private companies.

Public education is isn't what is optimal in the opinion of the majority of whom you quote... it's only what's currently available.

From Pfizer: Based on current projections we expect to produce globally up to 50 million vaccine doses in 2020 and up to 1.3 billion doses in 2021.

Interesting note, Moderna has taken a similar mRNA vaccine approach with similar production abilities. With luck they will have a similar efficacy rate.
 
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Merckx index

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Chris Gadsden said:
The timing is impeccable.
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Do you think if they had announced this a week earlier, it would have affected the election that much? A vaccine was always likely by early next year, and there are still questions about how many people will take it. I think the vote was based more on past performance than on future expectations.

Chris Gadsden said:
Feds don't own or control the means of production for the vaccine. They are merely throwing tax dollars at private companies.
Click to expand...

Medicare for All, like Medicare itself, also doesn't involve the government owning the production of other tests and treatments. It's mostly about regulation distribution, and the government definitely will be involved in the regulation and distribution of vaccines. In fact, the government has also been involved in the testing of the vaccines, in that criteria for the testing have been set by the CDC and other government agencies.

Public education is isn't what is optimal in the opinion of the majority of whom you quote... it's only what's currently available.
Click to expand...

Complaining that public education isn't perfect doesn't address the fact that there is very widespread support for public education, based on facts and premises that are even more valid now, applied to higher education, than they were when public education began.
 
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djpbaltimore

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One thing to remember about the Pfizer regimen is that it requires 2 shots spaced by 3 weeks. So when they mention how many doses they can produce, you have to divide by 2 to get the number of people they can vaccinate. I don't know how many will be allotted to different countries, but it will be limited to developed countries due to cold chain requirements.

All the vaccines target the same spike protein with varying platforms, so they should all be protective. With vaccines, the solution is usually easy, or nearly impossible. Glad to see that Covid seems to fall into the former category.
 
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Koronin

Koronin

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djpbaltimore said:
One thing to remember about the Pfizer regimen is that it requires 2 shots spaced by 3 weeks. So when they mention how many doses they can produce, you have to divide by 2 to get the number of people they can vaccinate. I don't know how many will be allotted to different countries, but it will be limited to developed countries due to cold chain requirements.

All the vaccines target the same spike protein with varying platforms, so they should all be protective. With vaccines, the solution is usually easy, or nearly impossible. Glad to see that Covid seems to fall into the former category.
Click to expand...

AstraZenica and Moderna are 2 shots spaced about 3-4 weeks apart as well. I think Pfizer said 50million doses by the end of this year is the max they can do. Next year over 1 billion. We can hope that AstraZenica's isn't more than a month or so behind Pfizer. The reality is we still need multiple vaccines that work to get enough to make some sort of difference.
 
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Merckx index

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Pfizer projects 1.3 billion doses for next year, so 650 million people. Moderna, set to report next month, has said they could produce 500 million to 1 billion doses next year. The question now is, how many people will be willing to get the shots? I'm ready to crash the line, but I don't know about some others.

Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19 Achieved Success in First Interim Analysis from Phase 3 Study | Pfizer

Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first interim efficacy analysis Analysis evaluated 94 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in trial participants Study enrolled 43,538 participants, with...
www.pfizer.com www.pfizer.com

djpbaltimore said:
All the vaccines target the same spike protein with varying platforms, so they should all be protective
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is really good news. The spike protein was the logical point of attack, and it seems to have paid off. My understanding , though, is that the vaccine they are now testing raises Abs to the entire spike protein, not just the receptor binding domain (the part that actually binds to human cells), which was another candidate they were considering. I'm not sure what the situation is with vaccines developed by other companies. However, Entos, a Canadian company, is developing a DNA vaccine that is based not on the spike protein, but another portion of the virus.

Some other positives of the news:

  1. More than 40,000 subjects, incorporating considerable diversity, were enrolled, so the fact that so far no adverse reactions have been reported is encouraging.
  2. My understanding is that this is non-replicating mRNA, i.e., just the mRNA itself is injected. The idea is that it will be taken up by cells and translated, i.e., synthesize the protein antigen. It's also possible to inject mRNA with additional factors that will result in copying the mRNA (rather like the coronavirus itself), thus amplifying the response. You end up with a lot more mRNA than you injected into the subject, so the possibility of a much more potent response, if needed (but also a greater risk of side effects). It would presumably also negate the necessity of a second dose, as the Pfizer vaccine (and also the Moderna one) requires.
  3. It's also possible to inject the mRNA with immune cells that present the antigen on their surface to other immune cells, promoting the response. This might be desirable for older people and others at risk with relatively weak immune systems.
The non-replicating mRNA that Pfizer apparently is using means there is room for improved response, if needed. Arcturus, working with Duke and a medical center in Singapore, is developing a self-replicating mRNA vaccine, which they hope can be administered in a single, very low dose. Imperial College also is developing a self-replicating mRNA vaccine. There are also different ways of delivering it, into the skin or muscle, which I believe is what the study is using, injection into the bloodstream or into specific organs, or even a nasal spray. Then there is Symvivo, a Canadian company that inserts its DNA into bacteria, which are consumed by subjects in a drink, with the idea that the DNA will be released in the gut, and taken up by cells there! This is new territory here, no one really knows what the most effective means of delivery will be.
 
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Koronin

Koronin

Oct 14, 2017
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Merckx index said:
Pfizer projects 1.3 billion doses for next year, so 650 million people. Moderna, set to report next month, has said they could produce 500 million to 1 billion doses next year. The question now is, how many people will be willing to get the shots? I'm ready to crash the line, but I don't know about some others.

Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19 Achieved Success in First Interim Analysis from Phase 3 Study | Pfizer

Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first interim efficacy analysis Analysis evaluated 94 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in trial participants Study enrolled 43,538 participants, with...
www.pfizer.com www.pfizer.com



Yeah, this is really good news. The spike protein was the logical point of attack, and it seems to have paid off. My understanding , though, is that the vaccine they are now testing raises Abs to the entire spike protein, not just the receptor binding domain (the part that actually binds to human cells), which was another candidate they were considering. I'm not sure what the situation is with vaccines developed by other companies.

Some other positives of the news:

  1. More than 40,000 subjects, incorporating considerable diversity, were enrolled, so the fact that so far no adverse reactions have been reported is encouraging.
  2. My understanding is that this is non-replicating mRNA, i.e., just the mRNA itself is injected. The idea is that it will be taken up by cells and translated, i.e., synthesize the protein antigen. It's also possible to inject mRNA with additional factors that will result in copying the mRNA, thus amplifying the response. You end up with a lot more mRNA than you injected into the subject, so the possibility of a much more potent response, if needed (but also a greater risk of side effects). It's also possible to inject the mRNA with immune cells that present the antigen on their surface to other immune cells, promoting the response. This might be desirable for older people and others at risk with relatively weak immune systems.
The non-replicating mRNA that Pfizer apparently is using means there is room for improved response, if needed. There are also different ways of delivering it, into the skin or muscle, which I believe is what the study is using, injection into the bloodstream or into specific organs, or even a nasal spray. This is new territory here, no one really knows what the most effective means of delivery will be.
Click to expand...

Pfizer is working with a German company which is the one that developed the vaccine and AstraZenica is a German company. I have more faith in them being German companies right now as I hope they are following German protocols. Also let me know when Germany approves them. When Germany (or Europe as a whole) approves them then I'll trust it more than if the FDA says it's good.

Health care workers likely go first (with most at risk people), however, I suspect health care workers will also be prioritized. How that will happen, who knows. Who knows if families are included in that or not as well.

Now there is also the point that a huge phara company like Pfizer or AstraZenica aren't going to want to risk their entire pipeline of drugs/medications/vaccines for this vaccine if there are major risks or issues that show up. So there is that as well.
 
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Jagartrott

Jagartrott

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For all vaccine candidates that are not in stage 3 yet or will be soon, it may become problematic to see enough infections to do a proper test. Bad news for them, good news for the world.

I wonder also if this breakthrough with the mRNA technique, which is new, will trigger rapid advances for other vaccines. BioNTech was originally targeting cancer prevention, but they sidestepped to corona for now.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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Merckx index said:
I'm ready to crash the line, but I don't know about some others.
Click to expand...

My hand is up. I’ll go first. Or one millionth, whatever. As soon as possible.

Koronin said:
When Germany (or Europe as a whole) approves them then I'll trust it more than if the FDA says it's good.
Click to expand...

This, to me, is exceptionally sad. I saw where Gov Cuomo also has doubts of distributing the vaccine when available in New York State. If you as a person don’t trust the safety of the vaccine then that is your choice. Any State’s leader who denies the distribution of the vaccine to his/her States residents should be held criminally liable for infections/deaths that otherwise would have been prevented. Cuomo’s comments were hopefully the zenith of TDS.
 
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djpbaltimore

Jun 9, 2014
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Jagartrott said:
For all vaccine candidates that are not in stage 3 yet or will be soon, it may become problematic to see enough infections to do a proper test. Bad news for them, good news for the world.

I wonder also if this breakthrough with the mRNA technique, which is new, will trigger rapid advances for other vaccines. BioNTech was originally targeting cancer prevention, but they sidestepped to corona for now.
Click to expand...
Moderna has been around for quite a while and they have repeatedly failed to develop a single vaccine that works. The question is whether they had a breakthrough with their platform or that COVID-19 just seems to be the proverbial low hanging fruit. The RNA approach historically hasn't been good at generating immune responses compared to the traditional methods. That is one reason why they are doing 2 doses. It is unclear whether they will succeed or whether something like the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, which is more traditional, will eventually be the winner long term. The J&J vaccine will only require a single dose.
Merckx index said:
Yeah, this is really good news. The spike protein was the logical point of attack, and it seems to have paid off. My understanding , though, is that the vaccine they are now testing raises Abs to the entire spike protein, not just the receptor binding domain (the part that actually binds to human cells), which was another candidate they were considering. I'm not sure what the situation is with vaccines developed by other companies. However, Entos, a Canadian company, is developing a DNA vaccine that is based not on the spike protein, but another portion of the virus.

Some other positives of the news:

  1. More than 40,000 subjects, incorporating considerable diversity, were enrolled, so the fact that so far no adverse reactions have been reported is encouraging.
  2. My understanding is that this is non-replicating mRNA, i.e., just the mRNA itself is injected. The idea is that it will be taken up by cells and translated, i.e., synthesize the protein antigen. It's also possible to inject mRNA with additional factors that will result in copying the mRNA (rather like the coronavirus itself), thus amplifying the response. You end up with a lot more mRNA than you injected into the subject, so the possibility of a much more potent response, if needed (but also a greater risk of side effects). It would presumably also negate the necessity of a second dose, as the Pfizer vaccine (and also the Moderna one) requires.
  3. It's also possible to inject the mRNA with immune cells that present the antigen on their surface to other immune cells, promoting the response. This might be desirable for older people and others at risk with relatively weak immune systems.
The non-replicating mRNA that Pfizer apparently is using means there is room for improved response, if needed. Arcturus, working with Duke and a medical center in Singapore, is developing a self-replicating mRNA vaccine, which they hope can be administered in a single, very low dose. Imperial College also is developing a self-replicating mRNA vaccine. There are also different ways of delivering it, into the skin or muscle, which I believe is what the study is using, injection into the bloodstream or into specific organs, or even a nasal spray. Then there is Symvivo, a Canadian company that inserts its DNA into bacteria, which are consumed by subjects in a drink, with the idea that the DNA will be released in the gut, and taken up by cells there! This is new territory here, no one really knows what the most effective means of delivery will be.
Click to expand...
I think this is due to the pre-clinical work with SARv1 that showed adverse reaction if you only used the binding domain, but it has been a while since I read about that. How these mRNA vaccines really work is interesting and not fully understood. The nanoparticles also must be doing something too. I wish this would be the impetus to solve some of the more difficult vaccine targets like HIV, Malaria, RSV, and TB, but I doubt that is possible.
 
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Koronin

Koronin

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According to an interview with one of the people from Biontech the vaccine can be stored up to 5 days in regular freezers at a pharmacy, so as long as they have enough people for the numbers they are getting in in short time frames it should be alright. (This is the Pfizer vaccine that needs stored/transported at the -70)
 
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djpbaltimore

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Koronin

Koronin

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djpbaltimore said:
Starting to see some movement. New mask mandate in Iowa. A bunch more restrictions in Minnesota. But as well meaning as some of these announcements are, this almost seems like the equivalent of charging a machine gun nest with a squirt gun. It would be darkly comic if it weren't so tragic. The cliff is fast approaching for many areas.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1326256931690909696
View: https://twitter.com/TheoKeith/status/1326256931690909696
Click to expand...

What Minnesota is doing sounds similar to what NC's governor is trying to do. Unfortunately he has no support by the rest of the state government. Of course there is nothing to enforce the mandates. The cases are rising. At this point I'm just rolling my eyes at all the people who don't believe or care about the virus.
 
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