Critérium du Dauphiné 2017 (04/06 > 11/06/2017)

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Is the Porte hype train back in the station yet, or have the brakes just been temporarily applied?

It picked up speed, better hop on whilst there's still time

let's hope it doesn't use up all it's fuel too early!

You hopped on the wrong train, the Aru train takes the fastest route to Paris

I would laugh at this but after seeing the Dauphine this year it's not as far fetched as it sounds.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Porte rode a naive race - Form showed that Froome was never his main danger - Porte needed to counter attacks by Fuglsang and Aru and forget about Porte.

Made the same mistake as Contador in the Dauphiné 3 years ago - focused too much on Froome

Strange when it was obvious Aru and Fuglsang were clearly stronger than Froome - I doubt Froome can even make the podium in the TDF.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

As for Fuglsang's ability to hold his form for 3 weeks, I think his past GC results have to be taken with a grain of salt. He was clearly a (super) domestique in the last 3 Tours and last year's Giro. Actually had one of the more impressive rides in recent years by a domestique in the (in)famous Stage 5 of the 2014 Tour when he dragged Nibali to the line over the cobblestones.

We'll see how he responds as the (co)leader but even a podium finish wouldn't be too surprising.

I would be very surprised to see Fuglsang on the Tour podium, but after this week none of the established contenders can ignore him.

I think the real surprise is that a rider like Fuglsang hasn't had more GC chances, even in 1 week races like the Dauphine, over the past 4 years. Now that he's been given a chance, he's definitely grabbed it.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

I missed the stage

And LRP lost it? WTF happened? hunger bunk? his typical day off? I thought he had this won already.... damn

Not for LRP's confidence ahead of the Tour...

now- Fuglsang OTOH..... :surprised:

Nah. Watch the stage. Porte was absolutely amazing but made a mistake focusing only on Froome.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

I missed the stage

And LRP lost it? WTF happened? hunger bunk? his typical day off? I thought he had this won already.... damn

Not for LRP's confidence ahead of the Tour...

now- Fuglsang OTOH..... :surprised:

Nah. Watch the stage. Porte was absolutely amazing but made a mistake focusing only on Froome.

He didn't just focus on Froome because Froome dropped LRP on the penultimate climb and then joined the Fuglsang group, where they worked together until Fuglsang attacked Froome on the last climb. If LRP could have followed Froome they would have caught the Fuglsang group and perhaps been able to keep his yellow jersey. It all fell apart for LRP on the penultimate climb.

On the flip side, LRP looked really strong on the final climb and only lost the GC by bonus seconds.

 

[jaylew]

True, but Porte was only dropped near the top of the penultimate climb because he'd been riding on the front for a long time with Froome offering no help (which of course was the correct strategy). Froome had the right plan - make Porte tire himself out and then go with an explosive attack near the top and use his better descending skill to bridge to the group containing his teammate.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I missed the stage

And LRP lost it? WTF happened? hunger bunk? his typical day off? I thought he had this won already.... damn

Not for LRP's confidence ahead of the Tour...

now- Fuglsang OTOH..... :surprised:

Nah. Watch the stage. Porte was absolutely amazing but made a mistake focusing only on Froome.

He didn't just focus on Froome because Froome dropped LRP on the penultimate climb and then joined the Fuglsang group, where they worked together until Fuglsang attacked Froome on the last climb. If LRP could have followed Froome they would have caught the Fuglsang group and perhaps been able to keep his yellow jersey. It all fell apart for LRP on the penultimate climb.

On the flip side, LRP looked really strong on the final climb and only lost the GC by bonus seconds.

Diesels like Porte don't like that sort of attacking racing in a short stage. He knew there would be attacks but when he got isolated he was calculating for the overall and had to make sure he didn't burn himself out before the last climb. It almost worked but no one predicted the ride from Fuglsang this week so it was only the unexpected that beat Porte. He only needed one helper in the valley and he would have retained the jersey but that's how it goes sometimes. Froome was caught out a few years ago by Talansky as well in the same race. And as others have already noted, this type of attacking racing won't be on offer in the Tour, not regularly anyway. Riders will be much more protective of holding their GC position going into the third week. But on paper the Tour looks like being a good one.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re: Re:

I missed the stage

And LRP lost it? WTF happened? hunger bunk? his typical day off? I thought he had this won already.... damn

Not for LRP's confidence ahead of the Tour...

now- Fuglsang OTOH..... :surprised:

Nah. Watch the stage. Porte was absolutely amazing but made a mistake focusing only on Froome.

He didn't just focus on Froome because Froome dropped LRP on the penultimate climb and then joined the Fuglsang group, where they worked together until Fuglsang attacked Froome on the last climb. If LRP could have followed Froome they would have caught the Fuglsang group and perhaps been able to keep his yellow jersey. It all fell apart for LRP on the penultimate climb.

On the flip side, LRP looked really strong on the final climb and only lost the GC by bonus seconds.

Diesels like Porte don't like that sort of attacking racing in a short stage. He knew there would be attacks but when he got isolated he was calculating for the overall and had to make sure he didn't burn himself out before the last climb. It almost worked but no one predicted the ride from Fuglsang this week so it was only the unexpected that beat Porte. He only needed one helper in the valley and he would have retained the jersey but that's how it goes sometimes. Froome was caught out a few years ago by Talansky as well in the same race. And as others have already noted, this type of attacking racing won't be on offer in the Tour, not regularly anyway. Riders will be much more protective of holding their GC position going into the third week. But on paper the Tour looks like being a good one.

Depends. If Froome is behind in the TdF then I think that we can expect race to explode as well - can't imagine him settling for 2nd. He will obviously have much stronger team in the TdF as well so we could expect lots of attacks near the top of the climbs and descents to bridge with teammates up front.

 

[DanielSong39]

Porte's computer didn't account for Fuglsang producing the ride of his life up the final climb.

Not much else to say.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

Porte's computer didn't account for Fuglsang producing the ride of his life up the final climb.

Not much else to say.

The sings were there though, he managed to drop everyone besides Fuglsang on stage 6.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I missed the stage

And LRP lost it? WTF happened? hunger bunk? his typical day off? I thought he had this won already.... damn

Not for LRP's confidence ahead of the Tour...

now- Fuglsang OTOH..... :surprised:

Nah. Watch the stage. Porte was absolutely amazing but made a mistake focusing only on Froome.

He didn't just focus on Froome because Froome dropped LRP on the penultimate climb and then joined the Fuglsang group, where they worked together until Fuglsang attacked Froome on the last climb. If LRP could have followed Froome they would have caught the Fuglsang group and perhaps been able to keep his yellow jersey. It all fell apart for LRP on the penultimate climb.

On the flip side, LRP looked really strong on the final climb and only lost the GC by bonus seconds.

Diesels like Porte don't like that sort of attacking racing in a short stage. He knew there would be attacks but when he got isolated he was calculating for the overall and had to make sure he didn't burn himself out before the last climb. It almost worked but no one predicted the ride from Fuglsang this week so it was only the unexpected that beat Porte. He only needed one helper in the valley and he would have retained the jersey but that's how it goes sometimes. Froome was caught out a few years ago by Talansky as well in the same race. And as others have already noted, this type of attacking racing won't be on offer in the Tour, not regularly anyway. Riders will be much more protective of holding their GC position going into the third week. But on paper the Tour looks like being a good one.

Depends. If Froome is behind in the TdF then I think that we can expect race to explode as well - can't imagine him settling for 2nd. He will obviously have much stronger team in the TdF as well so we could expect lots of attacks near the top of the climbs and descents to bridge with teammates up front.

Maybe. He can attack as much as he likes but like today it might not work.

 

[gunara]

Re: Re:

Porte rode a naive race - Form showed that Froome was never his main danger - Porte needed to counter attacks by Fuglsang and Aru and forget about Porte.

I think I know what you meant to type, but what you actually typed might be true as well.

Lol. Not that I understand what 'might be true' though
And the time bonus talk is painful, nothing much to argue there I think

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Everyone suddenly burst out singing;. And I was filled with such delight.
As prisoned birds must find in freedom,
Winging wildly across the white
Orchards and dark-green fields; on - on - and out of sight.
Siegfried Sassoon

 

[tobydawq]

By the way, how is that "No, no, no; short, explosive mountain stages being entertaining is a big misconception"-conception going for y'all?

Maybe it isn't the entertainment value that people in here tend to oppose against. But it is a mystery to me why so many in here seem to see stages like today's (design-wise) as the work of Satan. Once again, such a stage delivered in full.

 

[el_angliru]

I somehow think Porte's biggest mistake was riding as a super dom for Froome (as some posters put it) on stage 6. Aru and Fuglsang were at the front at the Mont du chat climb, but when Fuglsang was dropped by Aru Porte seemed content with pulling Froome and Fuglsang to the top of the climb. Instead Porte should have attacked and try to drop Froome and Fuglsang - and catch Aru! Fuglsang was perhaps a bit cooked at that moment.

We cant know how that would have turned out, of course, especially given Froome's and Fuglsang's descending skills on that particular descent. But since we know how good Porte's climbing form has been this week, it somehow seems wrong that he was satisfied with status quo on a climb like Mont du chat. But hindsight is easy, I guess

Anyway, it was an impressive race by Porte, and I hope he can maintain this form for the Tour. I want a competitive tour for once!

Fuglsang had an impressive week. He lost 1:19 to Porte in the TT but still managed to win the race by winning the MTF queen stage - not by gaining time on some medium stages breakaways. And he was the only gc-rider never dropped by Porte on a climb. I'm not expecting too much for the tour though. It'll be a completely different beast to tackle.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Porte's computer didn't account for Fuglsang producing the ride of his life up the final climb.

Not much else to say.

The sings were there though, he managed to drop everyone besides Fuglsang on stage 6.

Stage 7. Stage 6 was the four-way sprint between Porte, Froome, Fuglsang and Aru.

 

[el_angliru]

Re:

By the way, how is that "No, no, no; short, explosive mountain stages being entertaining is a big misconception"-conception going for y'all?

Maybe it isn't the entertainment value that people in here tend to oppose against. But it is a mystery to me why so many in here seem to see stages like today's (design-wise) as the work of Satan. Once again, such a stage delivered in full.

I Agree. I'm a big fan of short but difficult stages (like Alpe d'Huez 2011). Often we don't see any gc action before the last climb when stages are 200+ km. Great stage today.

Then again, it's not only about the stage-designs, it's also about the attitude of the riders and teams. Maybe they would be riding more cautiosly and conservtive in the tour, and maybe the teams would be more competitive and controlling if this stage was ridden in July.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

By the way, how is that "No, no, no; short, explosive mountain stages being entertaining is a big misconception"-conception going for y'all?

Maybe it isn't the entertainment value that people in here tend to oppose against. But it is a mystery to me why so many in here seem to see stages like today's (design-wise) as the work of Satan. Once again, such a stage delivered in full.

Straw man. Having the last stage in a week-long stage race short is not something (m)any has anything against. Especially not when it's done as well as today, although it's not unreasonable to have feared that the difficulty of the final climb could have prevented action from further away. What's often criticized is the overall trend towards shorter stages and how there's no marathon mountain stages in France anymore, or how making it short makes it great in itself. The Foix stage this year in the Tour is a joke, but it should be fairly entertaining, just not the same way a proper stage is (so it also won't have any GC action).

In fact, no one on this forum complained about the length of this stage in itself. No one. The only critique that I've been able to find is of the difficulty of the MTF and how there's a total absent of longer stages in the route. That's it.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re: Re:

Porte's computer didn't account for Fuglsang producing the ride of his life up the final climb.

Not much else to say.

The sings were there though, he managed to drop everyone besides Fuglsang on stage 6.

Stage 7. Stage 6 was the four-way sprint between Porte, Froome, Fuglsang and Aru.

Oh, I meant stage 7 indeed.
Also signs not sings.

 

[vedrafjord]

Re:

By the way, how is that "No, no, no; short, explosive mountain stages being entertaining is a big misconception"-conception going for y'all?

Maybe it isn't the entertainment value that people in here tend to oppose against. But it is a mystery to me why so many in here seem to see stages like today's (design-wise) as the work of Satan. Once again, such a stage delivered in full.

There's cause and effect in stage races though. Stages like today and Formigal worked because they had a couple of tough climbing days before them so the domestiques couldn't keep things together as easily and the main contenders were starting to fatigue. If you had a stage like today after three flat sprinter stages there's a good chance that not much happens.

It's the same as TT stages - at some point in the last few years, race organisers decided "MTFs are a lot more exciting than TT stages, so we'll get rid of the TTs and have more excitement overall". This neglected the fact that MTFs were exciting partially because the pure climbers, having lost a ton of time in the TTs, had to go for broke in the mountains and attack from further out. Without those TT gaps, the GC guys just marked each other and only attacked in the last couple of km, when the potential downside of blowing up was a lot lower.

It's all about balance.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Todays stage had been a cracker had it been 230 km or 100 km, its just the nature of so hard climbs packed closely together and it being the last day in the race IMO.

That said, riders definitely do tend to deliver the goods more often than not on such stages.

 

[Netserk]

Being a prep race for July, riders are more likely to dig deep in a short stage, but in a GT riders will dig as deep as they have to no matter the length of stages.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Being a prep race for July, riders are more likely to dig deep in a short stage, but in a GT riders will dig as deep as they have to no matter the length of stages.

Unless you are Contador, obviously, then you will dig deep when the stage is long, doesn't really suit you and the stage victory is out of reach and calm down today.

 

[Netserk]

Long stage, where?

 

[The Barb]

Re: Re:

I missed the stage

And LRP lost it? WTF happened? hunger bunk? his typical day off? I thought he had this won already.... damn

Not for LRP's confidence ahead of the Tour...

now- Fuglsang OTOH..... :surprised:

Nah. Watch the stage. Porte was absolutely amazing but made a mistake focusing only on Froome.

He didn't just focus on Froome because Froome dropped LRP on the penultimate climb and then joined the Fuglsang group, where they worked together until Fuglsang attacked Froome on the last climb. If LRP could have followed Froome they would have caught the Fuglsang group and perhaps been able to keep his yellow jersey. It all fell apart for LRP on the penultimate climb.

On the flip side, LRP looked really strong on the final climb and only lost the GC by bonus seconds.

Without a doubt Porte absolutely did focus on Froome, to his detriment. Watch the moment with 37km to go ... Porte could've gone with the Contador group but waited for Froome to move. Bad mistake.