Doping In Athletics

[poupou]

Harting hit back again by :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BimVqY1Wr9E

 

[Cloxxki 2.0]

Re: Re:

and WTF has no one asked Mo " have you doped"?

It should be lucrative to go into long term best with his ilk. In 10 years you'll have been established by WADA as a proven doper. Same for mainstream media. Farah should be comfortable offering 10 to 1 on that one?

 

[Nellyspania]

Re: Re:

They need to pop Gatlin now

Hasn't he already been popped like 17 times?

The IAAF must be dreading the 100 metres in Beijing; their squeeky clean golden boy Bolt stands to get beaten by Justin 'Life begins at 30' Gatlin.
Even Joe Public will finally see track and field for what it really is.

 

[Cloxxki 2.0]

Re: Re:

They need to pop Gatlin now

Hasn't he already been popped like 17 times?

The IAAF must be dreading the 100 metres in Beijing; their squeeky clean golden boy Bolt stands to get beaten by Justin 'Life begins at 30' Gatlin.
Even Joe Public will finally see track and field for what it really is.

What are their options? If they allow Gatlin to win (or merely compete) this, they are going to lose a lot of support on all levels.
But if they pop him, just in time, what does that look like? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
And, there is a possibility Gatlin has a blackmail file on the IAAF/Bolt situation to be released when he should ever be thrown under the bus without a fair bride offer. Pop me, and I'll pop all of you.
Perhaps IAAF are even forced to let Gatlin win this, asking golden boy to have a sore back until Rio.

 

[buckle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33846035

Confusing times for beeb journos.

POI:- These sports bosses are lawyers and accountants. It's beyond ridicule.

 

[Cramps]

Re: Re:

They need to pop Gatlin now

Hasn't he already been popped like 17 times?

Great quote on from Dai Green from BBC report. No coded language from him:

"It shows one of two things: either he's still taking performance-enhancing drugs to get the best out of him at his advanced age, or the ones he did take are still doing a fantastic job," says Dai Greene, Britain's 2011 400m hurdles world champion. "Because there is no way he can still be running that well at this late point in his career. After having years on the sidelines, being unable to train or compete, it doesn't really add up. 9.77 is an incredibly fast time. You only have to look at his performances. I don't believe in them."

 

[Catwhoorg]

*Thumbs up* to Dai there

 

[King Boonen]

Gatlin is a cheap shot, just look at the way Greene inserts a get out of jail free clause in his statement about past drugs bans, it means he can basically say what he wants and Gatlin can't say anything about it. I'd prefer he didn't say anything at all if all he's gong to do is attack guys we already know about.

 

[Cramps]

Re:

Gatlin is a cheap shot, just look at the way Greene inserts a get out of jail free clause in his statement about past drugs bans, it means he can basically say what he wants and Gatlin can't say anything about it. I'd prefer he didn't say anything at all if all he's gong to do is attack guys we already know about.

I don't, I prefer if everyone called out Gatlin. The more pressure the better.

Anyway, I don't see any get-out-of-jail free clause?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Gatlin is a cheap shot, just look at the way Greene inserts a get out of jail free clause in his statement about past drugs bans, it means he can basically say what he wants and Gatlin can't say anything about it. I'd prefer he didn't say anything at all if all he's gong to do is attack guys we already know about.

I don't, I prefer if everyone called out Gatlin. The more pressure the better.

Anyway, I don't see any get-out-of-jail free clause?

"or the ones he did take are still doing a fantastic job" that's the get out of jail free cause. Impossible to say if any gains he got have continued but by including that he can insinuate whatever he wants about Gatlins current possible drug use and just fall back on that caveat and claim it's his opinion. It's as bad as athletes saying they don't want athletics to become like cycling, it already is but due to cycling actually having to do something about its problems it allows other sports to use it as a distraction.

It's like cyclists calling out Di Luca or Ricco, we know they're dopers. Attacking caught dopers while not questioning the ridiculous performances of people who haven't been caught is all part of the omertà. Same thing in athletics, attack the ones who have been caught but don't question how a guy who trains with convicted dopers and has beaten every single known doper in the 100m by a large margin is able to do it.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Biggest surprise is that ONLY 35% of medallists had suspicious results. Had two good mates who reached the State Level in middle distance running in Australia - They always claimed 90% are juiced to their eyeballs.

Did they do anything with this information, aside from use it as pub chat?

If they know or knew there was doping by these particular individuals, did they report it to ASADA? What was the outcome?

Of course not - These guys reached the state level at 1500m, so are essentially amateur athletes - there is noo incentive for them to report to ASADA.

And I doubt that anyone will report to ASADA after the Essendon/Cronulla debacle.

And of course Dave Culbert has been silent on twitter about The Times report - Surprising seeing how much crap he's thrown out in the last 2 years about Australian athletes being as pure as snow.

I don't understand why there is no incentive* for a clean athlete or support person to provide clear evidence about individuals who are doping to ASADA? Not doing so means you are just another part of the culture of omerta, or you really don't have the evidence.

The football example isn't a reasonable analogy. That was about those involved with doping not wanting to give evidence.

* I can understand it might not be easy (e.g. it's your friend or team mate), but no incentive at all? Jeepers, I can see a very big incentive if you care about your sport. Otherwise you are accepting it's OK for a doping culture to persist.

1) Because these guys are amateur athletes who have reached a certain standard - They reached their standard and chose not to use substances to further themselves - There is no incentive to go to ASADA - With respect you appear naive - Let me give you an example of using drugs - 100 metres - Unless you can run around 10 flat there is no need to drugs because it will not get you to the pointy end - It's not like a 10.40 runner takes drugs and will become Usain Bolt

2) The Australian rules analogy is relevant because you brought up ASADA - And the incompetence of ASADA has been shown in the Essendon/Cronulla cases.

3) We better hope that Blackcat posts in this thread because he can give you more information about ASADA.

 

[noddy69]

Re: Re:

Gatlin is a cheap shot, just look at the way Greene inserts a get out of jail free clause in his statement about past drugs bans, it means he can basically say what he wants and Gatlin can't say anything about it. I'd prefer he didn't say anything at all if all he's gong to do is attack guys we already know about.

I don't, I prefer if everyone called out Gatlin. The more pressure the better.

Anyway, I don't see any get-out-of-jail free clause?

"or the ones he did take are still doing a fantastic job" that's the get out of jail free cause. Impossible to say if any gains he got have continued but by including that he can insinuate whatever he wants about Gatlins current possible drug use and just fall back on that caveat and claim it's his opinion. It's as bad as athletes saying they don't want athletics to become like cycling, it already is but due to cycling actually having to do something about its problems it allows other sports to use it as a distraction.

It's like cyclists calling out Di Luca or Ricco, we know they're dopers. Attacking caught dopers while not questioning the ridiculous performances of people who haven't been caught is all part of the omertà. Same thing in athletics, attack the ones who have been caught but don't question how a guy who trains with convicted dopers and has beaten every single known doper in the 100m by a large margin is able to do it.

I get the point about not calling out guys beating dopers, but at least he called out Gaitlin which some are not. Throwing in the get out of jail card is fair play. He cant openly state he is doing drugs with impunity so he needs that.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

3) We better hope that Blackcat posts in this thread because he can give you more information about ASADA.

dont know much about ASADA. I still think a tension exists because they have many a master.

i)The Fed gov't. Not officially, there are seperations of control.

ii)Australian Sport Commission where their funding and mandate comes from.

iii)WADA, which is the putative official master. but still another puppet imo.

iv)Then to lobbyists and corporate "control". Now an official commission, just like the SEC on Wall Street is really in hock to the bulge bracket banks and not vice versa when officially they are supposed to supervise the banks.

I think it comes back to the Brecht quote on heroes in Life of Galileo

Andrea: Unhappy is the land that breeds no hero.
Galileo: No, Andrea: Unhappy is the land that needs a hero. [Unglücklich das Land, das Helden nötig hat.]
Scene 12, p. 115
Variant translations: Pity the country that needs heroes.
Unhappy the land that is in need of heroes

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

and WTF has no one asked Mo " have you doped"?

Would a no answer convince you? Cause in that case you should be convinced: he was asked the question, a Sky interviewer going full Oprah, and each time answered no. So there you have it. Case closed, move on.

I Don't watch Sky ...Case closed,,, I would say for a Mo and a compliant media it was never really opened. No one has dug around like they should have asked about his ole Kenyan training partners etc.

Just like Paula.

I wouldn't call Oprah hard hitting more pre-staged.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I get the point about not calling out guys beating dopers, but at least he called out Gaitlin which some are not. Throwing in the get out of jail card is fair play. He cant openly state he is doing drugs with impunity so he needs that.

He's calling out a known doper, who cares? Might as well tell everyone you meet that the sky is blue. It is EXACTLY what people have been doing in cycling for years. Bad mouth the guys who get caught to make it look like your tough on doping but don't say anything about anyone else, no matter how obvious. The get out of jail free card is just the icing on the cake. "Look at me, I'm tough on drugs cheats, but I'm not actually going to accuse them of anything as I'm scared of what might happen".

As I said, I'd prefer he didn't say anything at all rather than this rubbish.

 

[Cramps]

Re: Re:

"Look at me, I'm tough on drugs cheats, but I'm not actually going to accuse them of anything as I'm scared of what might happen".

As I said, I'd prefer he didn't say anything at all rather than this rubbish.

He is definitely accusatory -- especially in the fuller context when he says,

"Because there is no way he can still be running that well at this late point in his career... You only have to look at his performances. I don't believe in them".

What you call the get of jail clause sounds simply sarcastic to me. But even if you're right, surely it's better to have more people denouncing Gatlin like this, even if the statements aren't as strong as you'd like . What WOULD be rubbish would be something like, 'athletics is clean except for Gatlin'.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't call Oprah hard hitting more pre-staged.

You're the one who put value on the question being asked, with your mock shock that you (erroneously) thought it hadn't been.

Then you find it has been asked and suddenly it has no value.

You spotting the problem here? It's not the people asking/not asking the questions...

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't call Oprah hard hitting more pre-staged.

You're the one who put value on the question being asked, with your mock shock that you (erroneously) thought it hadn't been.

Then you find it has been asked and suddenly it has no value.

You spotting the problem here? It's not the people asking/not asking the questions...

Are you Batman?

 

[Cycle Chic]

“So here’s what *** Pound asked me to do: He said I want you to give me a list of six athletes and coaches that you believe are using performance-enhancing drugs and what tests you would do, and how you would approach this. In other words, if you were king for a day what would you do with anti-doping? That was a specific question he asked me.”

Conte complied with Pound’s request. He named the following: coach Alberto Salazar and distance runners Galen Rupp and Mo Farah; sprinter Carmelita Jeter and hurdler Jason Richardson under John Smith; and Jamaican speedsters Usain Bolt and Yohan Blake and their coach, Glen Mills.

“Here’s what I specifically advised that they do: Go back to the (urine) samples that were collected that are frozen for these athletes, you take a look at these performances, as an example, you isolate Usain Bolt and Yohan Blake,” Conte recalled. “You look at what they did in 2008. You look at what they did again at the world championships in Berlin in 2009, when the world records were set that still stand, both the 100 and 200 meters by Usain Bolt, and look at these times when Carmelita Jeter was running 10.64 (seconds, in the 100, at the 2009 Shanghai Golden Grand Prix) and all these extremely crazy times, and the same thing with Mo Farah . . .

“. . .Collect their samples before these championship races where they ran very fast and you do the carbon isotope ratio test for synthetic testosterone.”

As planned, Pound submitted the just-cited information to David Howman, WADA’s director general, stating, in the words of Conte, that “they could target these frozen urine samples and they could do these tests.”

The idea was rejected.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2015/08/11/more-sports/conte-says-coverup-protected-big-stars-seoul-games/#.Vcn0cPlVikr

 

[Ortho2034]

That entire article really could not be clearer and more explicit about what the situation is.

 

[luckyboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33867962

28 mostly retired athletes suspended after their 2005 and 2007 samples were re-tested...

 

[Zebadeedee]

Is this some sort of funny joke from Sebastian Coe - the 'robust' response?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Ban some retirees ?

That will teach em!

 

[Cloxxki 2.0]

This would only be logic if recently a (more sensitive) test has come out for a substance known to have been popular in 2005-2007, I suppose?
They had to test these samples quickly as the dopers were about to get away with it, but now there is a 10 rather than 8 year expiry date....

 

[Catwhoorg]

To be clear: I don't care if they are retired, dopers need to be outed, so kudos to the back testing.

I think there is a whole more current can of worms that needs addressing.