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Doping In Athletics

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What are the physiological impediments that stop a man running 13 mph plus for 2 hours?
Vo2 max, efficiency and lactate threshold...I think I once read that in testing Kipchoge had freakish LT, that his body hardly produced any lactic acid at all

The one thing that struck me most about yesterday, and I watched it in full, is just how effortless it all looked. He never wavered from the target pace, he sprinted the last km in 2mins 40, then was running around the finish areas for minutes afterwards celebrating before giving his interviews seemingly fresh as a daisy...sure that could have been adrenaline after what he’d achieved, but it was startling, none of the usual collapse we often see at the finish line of the marathon, no outward indication that he’d just pushed himself to his absolute limits.

Compare all of that to the Monza attempt

I’m convinced he could have gone even quicker than he did yesterday by a significant margin
 
But it allows 2h3m runners to go 5% faster
Yes … but that potential advantage is negated, in turn, by "Clinic Drag" … the slowing down (of the athlete) in anticipation of The Clinic putting the boots to a commendable athletic performance. Think Merck Index had the formula up some time back. Or maybe it was FMK or BB. Can't remember.
 
Vo2 max, efficiency and lactate threshold...I think I once read that in testing Kipchoge had freakish LT, that his body hardly produced any lactic acid at all

The one thing that struck me most about yesterday, and I watched it in full, is just how effortless it all looked. He never wavered from the target pace, he sprinted the last km in 2mins 40, then was running around the finish areas for minutes afterwards celebrating before giving his interviews seemingly fresh as a daisy...sure that could have been adrenaline after what he’d achieved, but it was startling, none of the usual collapse we often see at the finish line of the marathon, no outward indication that he’d just pushed himself to his absolute limits.

Compare all of that to the Monza attempt

I’m convinced he could have gone even quicker than he did yesterday by a significant margin
Gotta wonder if everyone is gonna wear those shoes now lol
 
Vo2 max, efficiency and lactate threshold
Back when sports science began in the 1890s with guys like Philippe Tissié, most of the thinking involved finding ways of overcoming the pain barrier. This involved doping, a part of sports science but not the totality of it. Stimulants allowed the body to be pushed further, other products dulled the pain.

In the 1970s or so, sports science began to look at oxygen delivery and uptake., VO2 max and lactate threshold (the latter can be calculated as a function of the former). That became the dominant thinking through to the noughties. Now I mentioned Moser's Hour earlier. At the time, that Hour was fully legal. It was only in later years that the way it worked around the oxygen limitations - blood transfusions - were made illegal (and it was only years later that the technology of the bike was deemed illegal). Oxygen uptake wasn't the only part of Moser's Hour, there was some counter-intuitive thinking with regards to the bike (it was heavier than then traditional thinking said it should be). Like this sub-2 run, all areas were considered, but we tend to focus on one as the key element.

In the last decade or so, the science seems to have moved on from oxygen to fuelling and we're having to get our heads around things like L-Carnitine and Ketones. Get past the laser pacing (similar to a technique used by by the American rider Willie Hamilton in his 1898 Hour record), the allegedly counter-intuitive aerodynamic formation, the pacing strategy, and the shoes, and the narrative for this sub-2 run revolves around fuelling. In the last attempt, they say they got the fuelling wrong at the end, hence his ragged finish then. This time, they say they got it right.

Point here is that setting the physiological limits of man as oxygen-based seems to miss where the thinking is actually at today.
I’m convinced he could have gone even quicker than he did yesterday by a significant margin
I would have thought that that was a given? The strategy was to break the sub-2 barrier. This is the way with records. from the Hour to the pole vault and all in between: generally speaking, you aim to break the record, only rarely do you aim to put in on the shelf and thoroughly smash it.

So if the the guy had a pacing strategy to get sub-2 without tripping over his lactate threshold - and a fuelling strategy that enabled that pace to be held to the end - then the flags you're seeing at the end, him not being on his knees and crawling across the line like we imagine a true hero should, aren't really flags.

But, then, we're back to where the physiological limits are: if you insist the physiological limits make sub-2 physically impossible then you're not going to accept that the new record is already ripe for breaking.
 
Just watched the Chicago marathon - wow.

Kosgei set the women's WR and Paula was there to congratulate her at the finish line, it'll probably be a long time before any woman comes close to beating the new WR.

It must be the shoes...
 
About 240quid I think....incredible weekend of marketing for Nike....even I had a quick look on google to see if they were in stock in my size, and I can’t run for s*#t
I was about to say Kosgei wore the Nike Next% shoes (same as Kipchoge the other day), they go for around $250. (I had to google them myself, even though I haven't run in about 15 years. :tearsofjoy:)

You just know Nike is about to make a sweet mint on those kicks with all the exposure they got this week, all other running shoe manufacturers need not apply for the time being .
 
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Possibly having been missed amongst the World Championships and world marathon records, the great Kenenisa Bekele is still competing. And more than just merely competing, he is still astonishing us; winning Berlin a fortnight ago in 1:01:41; just two seconds off the (official) world record. Bring on Tokyo.
 
Shoes . . . yeah. Just thinking about Abebe Bikila in the 1960 Rome Olympics marathon. Dude didn't need no shoes . . . also set a world record on the way to gold. No EPO back then, either. So the world record (for men) in real race conditions has come down about 14 minutes since that day. It has taken a while to threaten 2 hours.
 
In the runnersworld thread about Kipchoge's sub 2 most posters were of the opinion that the shoes were a form of cheating and I have to agree. There are literally springs inside the soles. The only reason these shoes are currently permitted is that the springs are tucked away from view, bc if their action were external and thus visible to the naked eye, they'd be banned immediately.

That said I'm sure he doped too.
 
Did Kipchoge kill marginal gains? Tim Lewis (author the rather good Land of Second Chances) in the Oberserver:
Meanwhile, in marathon running, gains – both marginal and maximal – have been a hot topic. Last Saturday, in Vienna, Eliud Kipchoge became the first runner to complete 26.2 miles in less than two hours; the next day, another Kenyan, Brigid Kosgei, obliterated Paula Radcliffe’s 16-year-old women’s marathon record in Chicago. Both athletes were wearing a new shoe made by Nike called the Vaporfly Next%, which has a carbon‑fibre plate and deep, responsive foam cushioning. A previous version of the shoe was found in 2018 to improve the average time for a three-hour marathon runner by six minutes.

That is very far from marginal. Kipchoge – whose record attempt was sponsored by Ineos, which took over Team Sky this year – also benefited from a five-man, V-shaped pacesetter formation created by a sports scientist and aerodynamics expert called Robby Ketchell, who has also advised the cycling team. Ketchell believed that controlling and shaping the airflow around Kipchoge could trim up to two minutes off his time. (There’s no record of how often the Kenyan washed his hands before the race and what technique he used.)

Clearly, the search for gains of whatever size isn’t going anywhere, but perhaps now we are not so reverential towards the really marginal ones.
 
Three missed tests in what period? We've been through this before: more athletes stack up more missed tests than most people realise. Without extra detail, what are we actually looking at here. a coach who trips himself up with his own weak argument?
We don't know the time period. It may be 3 missed tests in her career, or 3 missed tests within a year. Thing is this quote isn't exactly a good look. That's the interesting part. The coach should be smart enough to not mention the missed tests, but he did. Of course there will be speculation then.
"She will never dodge a test" and then the next sentence is like "But she did 3 times". Inconclusive.
 
We don't know the time period. It may be 3 missed tests in her career, or 3 missed tests within a year.
Well it's not likely to be three in 12 months, now is it?

So we're agreed: it's a stupid coach saying something stupid. Interesting, yes. Amusing, yes. Damning? No.
"She will never dodge a test" and then the next sentence is like "But she did 3 times". Inconclusive.
Leaping to conclusions, some? If her wherabouts said place X between Y and Z o'clock and the DCO turned up after Z, it's the ADO's fault, not her's. And we do know that ADOs get this stuff wrong too.
 
Just watched the Chicago marathon - wow.

Kosgei set the women's WR and Paula was there to congratulate her at the finish line, it'll probably be a long time before any woman comes close to beating the new WR.

It must be the shoes...
lol what?

Someone beat the most doped wr of all time?
Didn't think it would ever be beaten. Not even by the Transgendered ones.

Can't believe its been a week and its the first I hear of it.
 
Feb 15, 2014
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Abraham Kiptum: Kenyan runner gets four-year ban for anti-doping violation

So what do you need to do to get popped for an ABP violation?


Well, a 20.1 g/dL HGB / 0.83% RET / 148.30 OFF-SCORE some days before competition followed by an 18.7 g/dL HGB / 0.53% RET / 143.70 OFF-SCORE a few days after the competition seems to be sufficient to get you on the "maybe needs further testing" list.

No wonder he broke the half marathon world record in that competition.

Ok. I may be completely mistaken, but this is worrying from Kiptum's health point of view.. unknown mid to late 20s runners - especially Kenyans - appearing out of nowhere to dominate has been happening a lot the past decade. Maybe the theory is that you can (mostly) get away with high hemoglobin if you first raise it sky high before the first ever test and then keep it there in perpetuity, so that the blood values appear to be naturally high? That would not seem particularly healthy for the athlete, but when has that ever stopped unscrupulous doctors, trainers, and managers?
 
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