Doping In Athletics

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

There's not much discussion left to be had. I even took Ray J Billings off my ignore list after he said he changed his opinion on Bolt. I don't think there are many believers left.

Good point!

Anyone that believes Bolt is clean after all will keep believing in this fairy tale, regardless of the obvious.

 

[armchairclimber]

Some interesting posts on Lets Run about the early days of what became NOP.... Athletics West. On page 2 there's a significant contribution from Craig Virgin. http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6749139

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Some interesting posts on Lets Run about the early days of what became NOP.... Athletics West. On page 2 there's a significant contribution from Craig Virgin. http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6749139

Wow. That is amazing.

I read a Nike biography a number of years ago. Will have to see if I still have it.

 

[Dr.Guess]

Steve Mullings, gold medal winner in the 4X100 m for jamaica in 2011, has written an open letter claiming his doping ban was not his but Powells. He's blaming authorities for covering up the stories and has set up a fundraiser so he can make a legal claim.
Has athletics got it's own Landis?

Read his open letter here.
https://www.gofundme.com/gs5fcjuz

 

[tantocomo]

Re:

Steve Mullings, gold medal winner in the 4X100 m for jamaica in 2011, has written an open letter claiming his doping ban was not his but Powells. He's blaming authorities for covering up the stories and has set up a fundraiser so he can make a legal claim.
Has athletics got it's own Landis?

Read his open letter here.
https://www.gofundme.com/gs5fcjuz

Clinic whip round?

 

[SeriousSam]

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

 

[Nellyspania]

Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

 

[Nellyspania]

Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

No percentage wise the Koch record just edges it, and the second fastest was by Kratochvílová, who was effectively male at that point

Edit: just re-checked calculations and you are correct, the Radcliffe record is 2.2% faster than the dodgy russian!

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

No percentage wise the Koch record just edges it, and the second fastest was by Kratochvílová, who was effectively male at that point

Edit: just re-checked calculations and you are correct, the Radcliffe record is 2.2% faster than the dodgy russian!

More than dodgy, she's been banned, with her results forfeited. Next accepted performance is 2:18:37.

 

[Dr.Guess]

Re: Re:

Steve Mullings, gold medal winner in the 4X100 m for jamaica in 2011, has written an open letter claiming his doping ban was not his but Powells. He's blaming authorities for covering up the stories and has set up a fundraiser so he can make a legal claim.
Has athletics got it's own Landis?

Read his open letter here.
https://www.gofundme.com/gs5fcjuz

Clinic whip round?

Yeah, e- mail him and give him a deal of "give us Bolt and we'll give you the money".

 

[Metabolol]

Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

The hypocrisy doesn't make the east german doping less serious. Koch's wr is a transgender wr. Anabolic steroids are increadibly effective for female athletes and if you can spend basically all year on them with no out of competition testing you are going to see 'incredible' results.

The fact that her wr wasn't even beaten during the EPO era is a clear indication how effective all out female to male anabolic steroid doping is.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

The hypocrisy doesn't make the east german doping less serious. Koch's wr is a transgender wr. Anabolic steroids are increadibly effective for female athletes and if you can spend basically all year on them with no out of competition testing you are going to see 'incredible' results.

The fact that her wr wasn't even beaten during the EPO era is a clear indication how effective all out female to male anabolic steroid doping is.

Right. I don't think anyone can argue that Paula has more suspicious circumstances than Koch, even if her performances may be. I'm conservative how I throw around the word hypocrisy in journalism, because an alternative is no doping coverage at all.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

The hypocrisy doesn't make the east german doping less serious. Koch's wr is a transgender wr. Anabolic steroids are increadibly effective for female athletes and if you can spend basically all year on them with no out of competition testing you are going to see 'incredible' results.

The fact that her wr wasn't even beaten during the EPO era is a clear indication how effective all out female to male anabolic steroid doping is.

The Koch record (careful autocorrect!) was run in Canberra on a brand new track built for speed. They also steeped the stadium so there would be a lack of wind from all corners of the track. It was the only way Canberra could get the World Cup event held at the newly opened AIS.

Koch was an amazing runner, extremely consistent and one of the few former East German female runners who's not now transgender. Doped to gills mind you.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The hypocrisy doesn't make the east german doping less serious. Koch's wr is a transgender wr. Anabolic steroids are increadibly effective for female athletes and if you can spend basically all year on them with no out of competition testing you are going to see 'incredible' results.

The fact that her wr wasn't even beaten during the EPO era is a clear indication how effective all out female to male anabolic steroid doping is.

this


x1000

 

[del1962]

Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

Koch is not tainted by being East German, but because there are records of he doping program administered by the Stasi which where uncovered after the Berlin wall fell.

 

[ray j willings]

Have you seen this about Russian woman marathon champion Shobukhova
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw0meWqSo3M

it shows the kind of pay offs we know are going on . Some good journalism.
I think Paula will get found out

 

[blackcat]

Have you seen this about Russian woman marathon champion Shobukhova
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw0meWqSo3M

it shows the kind of pay offs we know are going on . Some good journalism.
I think Paula will get found out

Ray, I just cant see this myself.

If I was a bookmaker, I would offer 20 to one, that she gets ruined over this. It will not happen. You can quote me.

I am not even that concerned, I think she played by the insider rules. I think they are all doping. I think Wiggins started "supplementing" (doping) with small stuff like testo before even Linda MacCartney, they ALL do it. And NO, It is NOT a british thing. But the British do indeed do what everyone else do also. The overriding culture, is not the British culture (that I have satirised and pilloried) it is the pro sport and pro cycling (or track cycling) culture, and the INSIDER norms and rules. That we are not privy to... (fallacy? me having access and quoting insider rules and norms?)

I think the current crop of athletes in the London 2012 epoch, have done very well, and it would be ashame to see them brought down.

however, i would be dishonest if I denied a schadenfreude in that scenario!!!

 

[ray j willings]

Have you seen this about Russian woman marathon champion Shobukhova
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw0meWqSo3M

it shows the kind of pay offs we know are going on . Some good journalism.
I think Paula will get found out

Ray, I just cant see this myself.

If I was a bookmaker, I would offer 20 to one, that she gets ruined over this. It will not happen. You can quote me.

I am not even that concerned, I think she played by the insider rules. I think they are all doping. I think Wiggins started "supplementing" (doping) with small stuff like testo before even Linda MacCartney, they ALL do it. And NO, It is NOT a british thing. But the British do indeed do what everyone else do also. The overriding culture, is not the British culture (that I have satirised and pilloried) it is the pro sport and pro cycling (or track cycling) culture, and the INSIDER norms and rules. That we are not privy to... (fallacy? me having access and quoting insider rules and norms?)

I think the current crop of athletes in the London 2012 epoch, have done very well, and it would be ashame to see them brought down.

however, i would be dishonest if I denied a schadenfreude in that scenario!!!

I really do think in Paula and Mo's case the mainstream media just do not want them to be found out.
They are the "nice dopers" The GB press definitely don't want to taint the London Olympics with a Mo or Jess bust but plenty happy to report on all the other busts from those games without hint of cynicism about the GB golds. Paula I feel still fits in with that Brits don't dope vibe.
If you watched the video it's quite shocking " to the outsiders" that huge amounts of money are changing hands to make doping go away. Its making a lot of people rich. It's just like real life politics. In the end its about money " its business" .

 

[Zebadeedee]

Re: Re:

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Bob Beaman's 1968 jump in Mexico dwarfs that.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Bob Beaman's 1968 jump in Mexico dwarfs that.

Special case. Done at high altitude where the air is thin, allowing much longer jumps than normal, just before a lightning storm which is the situation in which the air is thinnest.

Literally the perfect storm.

 

[Zebadeedee]

Re: Re:

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Bob Beaman's 1968 jump in Mexico dwarfs that.

Special case. Done at high altitude where the air is thin, allowing much longer jumps than normal, just before a lightning storm which is the situation in which the air is thinnest.

Literally the perfect storm.

So what? I was pointing out an inaccurate comment about Radcliffe's record.

 

[SeriousSam]

Didn't realise Bob still holds the LJ WR

 

[Zebadeedee]

Re:

. . . . . there is no WR in all of athletics . . . . .

That would include Bob Beaman's jump.
If you want to split hairs, more precision with your English might help.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

While Radcliffe is obviously highly suspicious due to her blood vales, you have to understand the difference between 400m and Marathon

A 400m will run quite a lot of 400m and close to their potential best 400m as they can run quite a number over a season, however a top class marathon runner might run one or two a year and the conditions or the fact that it is a championship will effect the time, so even if a runner has a period of 5 years at their best there is a good chance they won't run their optimal time.

So comparing sprints to a distance like the marathon is not really a good comparison

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Yeah it's once again remarkable hypocrisy.

Koch's WR is really good. But it's still not as good as Paula's. The next fastest 400m runners (even the third fastest, with seems to be untainted wrt doping) are closer to Koch's WR than anyone has ever been to Paula's.

To my knowledge, there is no WR in all of athletics as absurd as Paula's in terms of percentage difference to the next best performance.

Where Koch is tainted by being East German, Paula is tainted because her test results are actually suspicious.

While Radcliffe is obviously highly suspicious due to her blood vales, you have to understand the difference between 400m and Marathon

A 400m will run quite a lot of 400m and close to their potential best 400m as they can run quite a number over a season, however a top class marathon runner might run one or two a year and the conditions or the fact that it is a championship will effect the time, so even if a runner has a period of 5 years at their best there is a good chance they won't run their optimal time.

So comparing sprints to a distance like the marathon is not really a good comparison

All good & well but back in the 80s the Soviet countries didn't compete in non-championship events. They had no need as they didn't earn money and were paid by the state. Koch was running a minimal amount of 400m per year other than in events in East Germany which were not recognized by the IAAF.

In saying that they did persuade East Germany to run in a World Cup event in Canberra Australia where she set the world record.

So please get your facts straight. It's embarrassing.