Doping in XC skiing

[Vino attacks everyone]

I think it's official. Randall is the new Bjoergen. She's not reached the same aerobic efficiency yet, but her pace and stability, looking solid like a guy basically are totally to Bjoergen's standards, and possibly beyond.
Commentators call it natural progression, while the likes of Northug, Kalla, Weng, Johaug all took way shorter routes to the main stage in distance racing.
From track cyclist to GT winner you say? What about from sprinter to distance racer, while becoming even stronger in sprinting? Sounds like Bjoergen to me.
Somehow adding MORE muscle helps to everything better. And for some reason, very few of the world's elite do it. Too lazy for the gym work? Not commited? No fighters?
I am very, very sceptical. Cannot bring myself to listen out Randall's interviews anymore. The Clinic did this to me.

Randall won the Prologue of the Tour de Ski, somehow esse dup the Classic 10km, and then blew everyone away by many seconds in the (long) sprint. Quali, and all rounds. Just overwhelming.
In good Clinic tradition, we need to realize she's athlete's representative (of sorts) within FIS. Front row seat. Very much respected in that capacity apparently.

Personally I know many female athletes that is naturally skinny. They ahve huge problems putting on muscle mass. So nothing to do with lazyness, Not everyone is Bjoergen or Kovalzyk

 

[Cloxxki]

Personally I know many female athletes that is naturally skinny. They ahve huge problems putting on muscle mass. So nothing to do with lazyness, Not everyone is Bjoergen or Kovalzyk

In endurance sports, who wants to put on weight?

 

[Trond Vidar]

In endurance sports, who wants to put on weight?

Womens XC Skiing rarely have races that last more than 1 hour. Sprints and shorter races (10k) are done in less than 25 minutes. My guess is that the advantage in strength outperforms weight up to a certain point. Kikkan might not be the fastest up the final climb in Tour de Ski or win the 30K in Holmenkollen - but she will rock on shorter races. Now that there are many mass starts, you can even mitigate some of the weight by not taking much wind - and have the extra muscle power that is needed at the end (sprint).

 

[jsem94]

I think we can safely say that Kikkan will NEVER win the TDS.

 

[Cloxxki]

I think we can safely say that Kikkan will NEVER win the TDS.

I am not so sure. Her distance improvement has been extraordinary, and no reason to expect it to halt.

In the prologue and long sprints, she didn't hide from any way. Took MANY seconds out of the rest. Showcasing. Bjoergen style. As if the others don't train, or are untalented. Think again.
Yeah, she disappointed in the classic 10k, compared to results earlier this season. But it might not mean more that bad skis. Kowalczyk was superb, but anyway watching would agree that she had stellar skis, easily half a minute better than the Norwegians. Somehow she often seems to get great skis from her team. Makes you wonder about the ski prep argument of the Norwegians. Does it help to throw so much coin to ski prep, and is it even valid if you see Justina gripping AND gliding better?
Bjoergen often seems to have poor grip. I would not dare to blame that on her technique. Or assume Justyna is superior in that respect. So what is it?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Short interview with the head of Dopingkontrolle at Oberhof with Katrin Apel and Sabrina Buchholz.

Nothing too exciting, just a general overview, and a bit about the procedures, which seem to me to be pretty much as you'd expect. Seemingly 10 athletes will be picked at random for tests before the start of the event, then the winner and 2 or 3 others will be tested afterward.

 

[Cloxxki]

Di Centa seems to be more than fit right now. Outstanding skiing for a 40-year-old. From reports he seems quite well versed in the Italian School of EPO. EPO Z perhaps until the test for it arrives? Way to catch a second youth.
Notable is the strength of the Russian men (not so the women). Legkov has been superstrong on the final climb before. Northug seems weaker than usual.
The Swedes though, seem to be closer to the pace when the going gets tough uphill. Hellner was really strong uphill after a maybe so-so Tour.
I am getting the impression that any fitness anomalies seen are mostly strength related. The strong finishes, and recovery from hard surges of pace. Northug in that respect seems to have lost his mojo.

Question : does Vylexhianin, having been caught "unhealthy" over 50% Hct before, have an advantage with this blood passport, being expect to stay close to those levels?

 

[the sceptic]

Russians have been super strong lately in biathlon too. Definitely gearing up for the home olympics.

 

[Cloxxki]

In women's XC, it seems that athletes go from finishing a stage to having a chat about random stuff without transition. Don't they need a breather or something? It's XC for crying out loud! The men either try harder, or have it harder.
It seems we used to see more people looking like dying after the finish line. Could just be me...

 

[Armchaircyclist]

Di Centa seems to be more than fit right now. Outstanding skiing for a 40-year-old. From reports he seems quite well versed in the Italian School of EPO. EPO Z perhaps until the test for it arrives? Way to catch a second youth.
Notable is the strength of the Russian men (not so the women). Legkov has been superstrong on the final climb before. Northug seems weaker than usual.
The Swedes though, seem to be closer to the pace when the going gets tough uphill. Hellner was really strong uphill after a maybe so-so Tour.
I am getting the impression that any fitness anomalies seen are mostly strength related. The strong finishes, and recovery from hard surges of pace. Northug in that respect seems to have lost his mojo.

Question : does Vylexhianin, having been caught "unhealthy" over 50% Hct before, have an advantage with this blood passport, being expect to stay close to those levels?

--------------------------
Hellner crushed Northug last year as well on the uphill finish. Northug at 82kilos is in a tough position when you have to climb like that, and it is a good thing that he cannot climb like a 65kilo guy(legkov).

Suspicion against the russians is understandable, but it is also possible that extra funding and motivation before the home olympics play a part. Legkov was very strong on the uphill, but far from the best on that leg.

The blood passport is a bit of a joke, as long as it fails to catch anybody.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

In women's XC, it seems that athletes go from finishing a stage to having a chat about random stuff without transition. Don't they need a breather or something? It's XC for crying out loud! The men either try harder, or have it harder.
It seems we used to see more people looking like dying after the finish line. Could just be me...

--------
We see this in most sports. Ever seen a local 400m run ? People bend over and are almost puking their guts out. Switch to olympics, and the medalists are almost instantly smiling at the camera.

At the end of TDS last uphill stage, most athletes fell to the ground and stayed there a little while. Maybe races are too easy these days, equipment is better, distances are the same, and run times lower.

 

[Cloxxki]

--------
We see this in most sports. Ever seen a local 400m run ? People bend over and are almost puking their guts out. Switch to olympics, and the medalists are almost instantly smiling at the camera.

At the end of TDS last uphill stage, most athletes fell to the ground and stayed there a little while. Maybe races are too easy these days, equipment is better, distances are the same, and run times lower.

Sure, at the end of the Tour they did do some sincere huffing and puffing. Not too surprising of course.

 

[Cloxxki]

--------------------------
Hellner crushed Northug last year as well on the uphill finish. Northug at 82kilos is in a tough position when you have to climb like that, and it is a good thing that he cannot climb like a 65kilo guy(legkov).

Suspicion against the russians is understandable, but it is also possible that extra funding and motivation before the home olympics play a part. Legkov was very strong on the uphill, but far from the best on that leg.

The blood passport is a bit of a joke, as long as it fails to catch anybody.

On this forum, we have to be aware of the W/kg concept. Northug may be heavier, but he might also have a bigger cardiovascular system.
I used to race at 82kg myself (MTB), and rarely met my equal in climbing at my level racing. I actually lost out on the flats, I think due to aerodynamics kicking in. I am very lanky.
Northug seems to be awesome at extracting energy from his muscles somehow and not pass out from oxygen deficiency, a unique talent. He does suffer when he's forced so high above lactate threshold for so long.

 

[Trond Vidar]

--------------------------
Hellner crushed Northug last year as well on the uphill finish. Northug at 82kilos is in a tough position when you have to climb like that, and it is a good thing that he cannot climb like a 65kilo guy(legkov).

Suspicion against the russians is understandable, but it is also possible that extra funding and motivation before the home olympics play a part. Legkov was very strong on the uphill, but far from the best on that leg.

The blood passport is a bit of a joke, as long as it fails to catch anybody.

Legkov supposedly is 73kg

http://www.google.no/search?q=legkov+weight&oq=legkov+weight&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

[Jaco0505]

Legkov supposedly is 73kg

http://www.google.no/search?q=legkov+weight&oq=legkov+weight&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

According to this source and also norwegian newspapers, Legkov is 65 kg http://au.eurosport.com/cross-country-skiing/alexander-legkov_prs33263/person.shtml

 

[Trond Vidar]

There is no way he is 65 kg. not many male skiers are below 65, they are tiny!

178cm and this body is not 65. He would look like a purebred cycling climber

 

[Armchaircyclist]

On this forum, we have to be aware of the W/kg concept. Northug may be heavier, but he might also have a bigger cardiovascular system.
I used to race at 82kg myself (MTB), and rarely met my equal in climbing at my level racing. I actually lost out on the flats, I think due to aerodynamics kicking in. I am very lanky.
Northug seems to be awesome at extracting energy from his muscles somehow and not pass out from oxygen deficiency, a unique talent. He does suffer when he's forced so high above lactate threshold for so long.

--------
Well, many things might be possible in theory, but I think it is a well known fact that the "motor" or endurance capacity is not Northugs strength, and many are better than him on this part, which is why he is often coming to the front before an uphill section, lets himself slide back through the pack during the climb, and wins positions again on the downhill or flat sections.

Having extra muscles that are efficient in a sprint, is not easily combined with being the most enduring in a long uphill, just like in cycling. I would guess most people in the clinic would agree that being better than thin climbers uphill, and being the best sprint-finisher at the same time, reeks of doping from a long way. So that's why I'm almost pleased that our norwegian hero takes a beating in the long uphills...

 

[Cloxxki]

Austrian Biathlon Men are back. Like, not losing much of any time on anyone.
They went from ruling the ski speed listing, to fading in the margin, to now back on top. Same skiers.
The Clinic made me a cynic, **** really, what's up? How do long time athletes collectively find several per cents of ski speed after a significant peak and dry spell? Is that normal?
I think the Human Plasma case brought them some extra zealous medical checks, and now EPO Z has come to the rescue. What else? The rest has gone clean? But I thought they already were?

 

[Bavarianrider]

Austrian Biathlon Men are back. Like, not losing much of any time on anyone.
They went from ruling the ski speed listing, to fading in the margin, to now back on top. Same skiers.
The Clinic made me a cynic, **** really, what's up? How do long time athletes collectively find several per cents of ski speed after a significant peak and dry spell? Is that normal?
I think the Human Plasma case brought them some extra zealous medical checks, and now EPO Z has come to the rescue. What else? The rest has gone clean? But I thought they already were?

"Austria is a too small country to make good doping"
Austrian Ski Federation president

Don't worry it's only a matter of time till the next Austrian scandal will be uncovered.

 

[meat puppet]

Northug lader batteriene på Tenerife

Charging. Love that verb.

 

[the sceptic]

Austrian Biathlon Men are back. Like, not losing much of any time on anyone.
They went from ruling the ski speed listing, to fading in the margin, to now back on top. Same skiers.
The Clinic made me a cynic, **** really, what's up? How do long time athletes collectively find several per cents of ski speed after a significant peak and dry spell? Is that normal?
I think the Human Plasma case brought them some extra zealous medical checks, and now EPO Z has come to the rescue. What else? The rest has gone clean? But I thought they already were?

Almost as fast as the russians and norwegians. Must be the chinese epo

 

[Cloxxki]

Almost as fast as the russians and norwegians. Must be the chinese epo

Well, a Russian putting the hurt on Martin Fourcade after one extra miss in the mass start. Fourcade = French = clean? When he's on form, he cannot be beat on the skis. So many Norwegians on skis, the fastest skaters going to biathlon, and they get regularly beaten by a string of Russians and a French dude.

And Northug to Tenerife, ouch, that's just shameless, not happy to hear that. Did lose a lot of time on the final hill at the Tour de Ski. And is losing sprints here and there. Are the Norwegians just quitting the pretending and just joining the stanard omerta behavior, right out in the open?

 

[poupou]

Well, a Russian putting the hurt on Martin Fourcade after one extra miss in the mass start. Fourcade = French = clean? When he's on form, he cannot be beat on the skis. So many Norwegians on skis, the fastest skaters going to biathlon, and they get regularly beaten by a string of Russians and a French dude.

Svendsen has been impressive too with 2 penalties and finishing only 10s later. Fourcade shooted carefully and has probably more time than his close challengers.
http://services.biathlonresults.com/results.aspx?RaceId=BT1213SWRLCP05SMMS

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, a Russian putting the hurt on Martin Fourcade after one extra miss in the mass start. Fourcade = French = clean? When he's on form, he cannot be beat on the skis. So many Norwegians on skis, the fastest skaters going to biathlon, and they get regularly beaten by a string of Russians and a French dude.

Can't really make anything serious out of Malyshko or Svendsen for that. Malyshko missed his shot at prone 1, and the pace on lap 2 was very slack as nobody wanted to take up the pace. Several of the people who missed 1 got back before prone 2, and Malyshko was one of them. He was then always in the pack of clean shooters, and got a few seconds over Martin because he shot faster at standing 2. I was surprised Fourcade didn't put a bit more time into him, but then Fourcade looked at ease and like he knew he could beat the Russian in the sprint, so why expend energy you don't need to? Svendsen on the other hand was trying to get himself onto the podium from behind through traffic. Fourcade's ski time was slower than Alexis Bœuf's, so I don't think he was going all out, with his performance the previous day in mind.

 

[kingjr]

Fourcade was lying dead on the snow after he'd crossed the line. He certainly didn't hold himself back on the last loop. And spent a lot of energy being at the front for almost the entire race. This is just for the record, I don't really want to take part in any doping speculations.