Doping in XC skiing

[ToreBear]

Thanks' for the links. Seems that the last year has been a wakeup call. Better late than never.

After following this thread for some years I'm today fully convinced that the Norwegian dominance through the 90s was based on systematic use of substances that are now banned. That's a heavy shadow over the current generation of Norwegian skiers.

Being so dominant today, Norwegian Ski Federation simply have to get those skeletons out of the closet before anyone outside Norway will fully appreciate the many amazing Norwegian XC-performances we are witnessing today.

Even you Torebear, must have raised your eyebrows watching the sprint relays last Sunday. I sure did.

I'm also sorry to say that both Krogh and Kalla made me think twice the Sunday before.

On the 90s I don't agree.

Eyebrows yes, from a clinic standpoint, no.
Go to the Fis site, check out the palmares of those involved on distance races as well as recent results. The only one who I could see measuring up to the two Norwegians the way the race unfolded was Calle Halvarsson. He has the field maneuvering ability and stamina of the Norwegians. But likely having to make up for a weaker teammate and the previous races in the championships caught up with him on his last lap. That is quite understandable when you think about Krogh who was not in the sprint and elected not partake in the 30k to save himself.

I have no concerns about Krogh. I had more concerns about Kalla last year at high altitude. The more I see her race at this level the more my concerns will ease. It will be interesting to see how she does after the championships this year, and next year.

 

[Nicko.]

On the 90s I don't agree.

Eyebrows yes, from a clinic standpoint, no.
Go to the Fis site, check out the palmares of those involved on distance races as well as recent results. The only one who I could see measuring up to the two Norwegians the way the race unfolded was Calle Halvarsson. He has the field maneuvering ability and stamina of the Norwegians. But likely having to make up for a weaker teammate and the previous races in the championships caught up with him on his last lap. That is quite understandable when you think about Krogh who was not in the sprint and elected not partake in the 30k to save himself.

I have no concerns about Krogh. I had more concerns about Kalla last year at high altitude. The more I see her race at this level the more my concerns will ease. It will be interesting to see how she does after the championships this year, and next year.

The last 8 years aren't enough?

 

[goggalor]

I cannot imagine a dimension in which Johaug and Bjoergen BOTH lose 2 minutes in ski prep over 10km. They did have a bit more snow and wear on the tracks. Let's say that was worth 10 seconds.

Hilarious.

 

[BullsFan22]

On the 90s I don't agree.

Eyebrows yes, from a clinic standpoint, no.
Go to the Fis site, check out the palmares of those involved on distance races as well as recent results. The only one who I could see measuring up to the two Norwegians the way the race unfolded was Calle Halvarsson. He has the field maneuvering ability and stamina of the Norwegians. But likely having to make up for a weaker teammate and the previous races in the championships caught up with him on his last lap. That is quite understandable when you think about Krogh who was not in the sprint and elected not partake in the 30k to save himself.

I have no concerns about Krogh. I had more concerns about Kalla last year at high altitude. The more I see her race at this level the more my concerns will ease. It will be interesting to see how she does after the championships this year, and next year.

In a word: NO.

 

[BullsFan22]

Olsson is definitely clean today.

 

[BullsFan22]

Gloeersen, world cup winner in sprint races, now a world championship medalist in distance races...

 

[the sceptic]

hillarious race today. Olsson almost seems embarrassed by his own performance

 

[goggalor]

hillarious race today. Olsson almost seems embarrassed by his own performance

Likely because he knows he had a massive advantage with almost 50 skiers on the course between him and Manificat.

 

[roundabout]

Olsson

world cup

98 starts - 5 wins, 2 other podiums

worlds and olympics

21 starts - 2 wins, 4 other podiums

 

[ToreBear]

The last 8 years aren't enough?

Oh I don't mean 10k free. That was an expected performance. I'm taking a more holistic approach. For example I will be keeping my eyes open on the 30k, and also her performances after the championship.

Also I want to enjoy the races and not think so much about doping.

 

[Saint Unix]

My money is on Olsson. He does this almost every year. Is sick and races maybe 2 races before the big championships and wins 2-3 medals. So uncanny.

Well done, Sir.

 

[Walkman]

Olsson

world cup

98 starts - 5 wins, 2 other podiums

worlds and olympics

21 starts - 2 wins, 4 other podiums

Do you believe he is doping? (No sarcasm or so, I am just curious)

 

[Walkman]

My money is on Olsson. He does this almost every year. Is sick and races maybe 2 races before the big championships and wins 2-3 medals. So uncanny.

What's your opinion on him? Doping wise, that is.

 

[kosmonaut]

Gloeersen, world cup winner in sprint races, now a world championship medalist in distance races...

One year ago he finished fourth in Lahti WC 15k free. Because the sprint in Falun was classic he decided to go all in for the 15k free instead. His season prep has been for this, he won the WC in Davos before xmax and the nationals in January. So Gl?ersens result today was no huge surprise ? yet impressive considering his bib nr and size. Same goes for Manificat, who started even later. The Frenchman said in an interview that he had targeted this race for two years.

I think many expected something big from Olsson today. Again the conditions plays in, but not as much as yesterday. Not taking credit from anyone here, always fun to see Olsson race ? as rare as it is

Also noted how ****ed Hellner was, going after the organizers for not salting the whole course. It seemed like he had expected the win.

 

[BullsFan22]

What's your opinion on him? Doping wise, that is.

For the last 6 years, he has raced sparingly, only doing a few races a year, especially during the championship seasons. Last year he raced 3 times prior to the Olympics. At the Olympics, he did three races, two of them were medal winning efforts. Since Sochi, he has done 6 races (including today's 15km). His season ended after the 50km in Sochi last year. Apparently he has struggled with sickness and getting back to fitness for some months. This was the case last year and the year before. They weren't even sure he would race in Sochi last season, then he somehow won 2 medals there.

My opinion on him? Either he is the most mentally tough athlete on the tour or he is the best at peaking for the most important races year after year, maybe since Andrus Veerpalu and Thomas Alsgaard (honorable mentions go to Jaak Mae, the Italian men of the 90's and early 2000's and more recently, Tord Asle Gjerdalen).

 

[Kokoso]

For the last 6 years, he has raced sparingly, only doing a few races a year, especially during the championship seasons. Last year he raced 3 times prior to the Olympics. At the Olympics, he did three races, two of them were medal winning efforts. Since Sochi, he has done 6 races (including today's 15km). His season ended after the 50km in Sochi last year. Apparently he has struggled with sickness and getting back to fitness for some months. This was the case last year and the year before. They weren't even sure he would race in Sochi last season, then he somehow won 2 medals there.

My opinion on him? Either he is the most mentally tough athlete on the tour or he is the best at peaking for the most important races year after year, maybe since Andrus Veerpalu and Thomas Alsgaard (honorable mentions go to Jaak Mae, the Italian men of the 90's and early 2000's and more recently, Tord Asle Gjerdalen).

Veerpalu doped.

 

[Discgear]

Johan Olsson

Johan Olsson took his first goldmedal 2013 at the age of 32. He's an old school skier. Fantastic technician, hard as a rock but without finishing skills. All the early years his training was based on stamina, not sprint speed. He would have been dominant in a pre Northug era. Can't remember if FIS changed the sport after Northug or if the change came pretty much together.

The really sad thing with XC-skiing today is that there can't be no heroes anymore. Doping fundamentally has destroyed pretty much everything. My favorite skier was always Myllala, such a humble, silent, grumpy and hard working guy. All illusions kind of was destroyed that day when he was exposed as a simple cheater. He paid the ultimate price.

Before the real truth behind the 90s is told, including the Norwegians, the XC-sport will always struggle with trustworthyness. My only glimpse of hope is that the Swedes stood without any competitive edge during that very dark era.

 

[Kokoso]

He would have been dominant in a pre Northug era.

No, he wouldn't, or at least there would be more of them, like Bauer.

 

[Discgear]

No, he wouldn't, or at least there would be more of them, like Bauer.

Don't agree obviously, but you're entitled to have another opinion. Though Bauer is a good example - as is Sodergren - of skiers who were built for another era of skiing.

 

[python]

random toughts on top 10 and olsson

personally, i AM slightly surprised by olsson's triumph...as was already said, mainly b/c he appears from nowhere hardly racing and, not lastly, b/c he's known as a better classic guy, than a skate. that said, several objective factors of physics and physiology may have helped him (and 2-3 others).

this post was inspired by cologna's post-race comments. he said, that the starting order was critical to eventual placing, meaning that already soft tracks were essentially turned into a mush for late starters...the sentiment was essentially supported by other participants (hellner, jespesen, belov).

i will venture to add another factor from myself - being lighter/heavier in these soft conditions. lighter was IT.

indeed, among the top 10, there are only 3 late starters (belov, magnifican, jespesen). at the same time, at least 6 or 7 are of lighter body build/weight (under 75 kg), with the winner olsson being 68kg. the other well known 'light-weights' like roethe, krogh, bauer, magnificat, TRITSCHER are all in top 10.

of course, other factors played heir role, but the fact that such relatively heavy (certifiably over 75kg) late starters like jespersen and belov (and especially gloeersen) means they are in very good aerobic shape.

i'd say, watch out for gloeersen and belov in the team relay if the coaches calculate as i do.

 

[dukoff]

I think Olsson's win was well deserved. Yes, a shame the fight was destroyed by poor conditions and starting orders. It was predicted; Cologna wanted start order changed day before. But apparently no team officially requested it. Then 400m of salting, what shall we say? One point Wassberg. Sad for the competitors, some having targeted this race. But I think the strongest won in any case. And I don't suspect Olsson cheating. Even if his schedule is atypical.

Nice for the Swedes to get some gold. I do genuinely enjoy that, specially in their home event. Up to a point, that is; One, or two at a stretch. Must keep their spirit up. Now time to grab a few back. To loose any of the next two would be a tragedy. But a lot can happen in a relay...

 

[Kokoso]

Don't agree obviously, but you're entitled to have another opinion. Though Bauer is a good example - as is Sodergren - of skiers who were built for another era of skiing.

Well you have short memory if you don't remember what Bauer was capable of.

 

[May0maniac]

personally, i AM slightly surprised by olsson's triumph...as was already said, mainly b/c he appears from nowhere hardly racing and, not lastly, b/c he's known as a better classic guy, than a skate. that said, several objective factors of physics and physiology may have helped him (and 2-3 others).

this post was inspired by cologna's post-race comments. he said, that the starting order was critical to eventual placing, meaning that already soft tracks were essentially turned into a mush for late starters...the sentiment was essentially supported by other participants (hellner, jespesen, belov).

i will venture to add another factor from myself - being lighter/heavier in these soft conditions. lighter was IT.

indeed, among the top 10, there are only 3 late starters (belov, magnifican, jespesen). at the same time, at least 6 or 7 are of lighter body build/weight (under 75 kg), with the winner olsson being 68kg. the other well known 'light-weights' like roethe, krogh, bauer, magnificat, TRITSCHER are all in top 10.

of course, other factors played heir role, but the fact that such relatively heavy (certifiably over 75kg) late starters like jespersen and belov (and especially gloeersen) means they are in very good aerobic shape.

i'd say, watch out for gloeersen and belov in the team relay if the coaches calculate as i do.

Being light is a huge advantage with those conditions, we saw that with johaug in the skiathlon, perfect conditions for a lightweight like her.
Olsson only performing at WC or the Olympics is one of the most ovious things in male XC skiing...
For the record, I'm not defendig Johaug and i don't think that she's clean, I just think that the conditions and the course were perfect for her.

 

[Discgear]

Well you have short memory if you don't remember what Bauer was capable of.

Where have I stated that Bauer wasn't a very capable skier? On the contrary I said that Bauer is a good example of a skier that would have been much more successful in time before FIS changed XC-skiing into chase/sprint events.

IMHO - and avoiding more suppressant commentaries from you, I think Bauer was a truly great skier (not so much anymore), almost as talented as Olsson.

Both of them were built for another era, but Olsson has found ways to deal with a changed scene late in his career. 50K on Sunday will probably be his last race.

 

[Kokoso]

Where have I stated that Bauer wasn't a very capable skier? On the contrary I said that Bauer is a good example of a skier that would have been much more successful in time before FIS changed XC-skiing into chase/sprint events.

IMHO - and avoiding more suppressant commentaries from you, I think Bauer was a truly great skier (not so much anymore), almost as talented as Olsson.

Both of them were built for another era, but Olsson has found ways to deal with a changed scene late in his career. 50K on Sunday will probably be his last race.

Nowhere and I haven't mean that. Only I said that Olsson wouldn't be dominant or there would be more of them dominant like him, that he wouldn't be alone.
You are forgetting Bauer is 37, Olsson 34. And Bauer actually WAS dominant at least at one point in his carreer, despite sprints. Also Olsson never found way how to deal with sprints, he isn't good at them and look where he is in world cup. Bauer was much better in that regard. Olsson can shine one time per year.