Dr Ferrari -vs- Lemond

[Oldman]

I apologize. I was wrong writing that everybody knew.
I should have written a lot of people within the world of professional cycling.

When he was with Motorola early on that season he got sick Ochowicz asked several team members and coaches if they "knew what Lance was doing?" He was seeking an explanation as to how LA could put in week after week of 6 hour rides at team camp, lift weights and still put on 20+ lbs. It was so obviouse as to cause concern.
Could that have exacerbated a cancer predisposition?
Could Ferrari have been involved?
In retrospect the answer to the last question could provide insight into the rest.

 

[ThaiPanda]

Ugh... that is not the Donati Dossier.
It's a different report.

Yeah, no shyt. Scanning it I see nothing about Ferrari.

So, CitizenErased, you are claiming the Dossier doesn't exist anymore? Well this is a fine mess, isn't it? How convenient. And, I had such hope for this thread.

 

[hrotha]

Sure, doping has always been rooted in the world of sports and cycling in particular; from my part, I have always tried to dissuade, proposing legal and efficient alternatives: training, nutrition, altitude.

I haven't really been following Ferrari's career, but didn't this guy say in the early-mid 90s that there was no health risk involved and that doping (under medical supervision) should be allowed? Or am I making this up? I don't quite remember.

 

[callac]

Will anyone come out and directly state this?

Because would take some balls.

i.e Highlight the fact that the drugs tests should have shown the indicators of his cancer, (massive ratio differences that would have showed cancer) yet they never did for some reason

This blog had the balls to do it, and even pushes farther as to implicate it's the starting point as showing to LA that the UCI wasn't serious about catching dopers...

2. Armstrong got cancer. The interesting thing is that his level of beta-hCG (the indicator of testicular cancer) should have been detected in routine doping tests months earlier. I'd imagine Armstrong felt two things: a) the cycling authorities weren't serious about catching dopers, so they were tacitly approving the practice and b) it was partially their fault that he almost died. If Armstrong had any moral doubts about doping, it's easy to see how they could have been erased. The UCI didn't care about doping and furthermore,they owed it to Armstrong.

3. So Armstrong went on to dominate the Tour de France rest assured that he wasn't a cheater because a) he had the moral high ground given his cancer and b) everyone else was cheating too. That attitude helps explain his issues with Christophe Bassons. Bassons' clean riding picked away at that moral high ground. Everyone wasn't cheating. Armstrong wasn't really an innocent victim of a dirty sport - he was part of the problem. Bassons mere existence must have irked him.

Can also explain the obsession as wanting to prove that LeMond doped...

 

[MacRoadie]

I haven't really been following Ferrari's career, but didn't this guy say in the early-mid 90s that there was no health risk involved and that doping (under medical supervision) should be allowed? Or am I making this up? I don't quite remember.

In 2001 Armstrong admitted he was working with Ferrari, a sports doctor who, it is widely believed, has been a pioneer in the administration of EPO (erythropoietin).

That belief is partly down to a now famous declaration by the Italian shortly after the Gewiss team, with whom he had been working, placed three of their riders on the podium of the 1994 Fleche Wallonne one-day classic.

"EPO is not dangerous, it's the abuse that is. It's also dangerous to drink 10 liters of orange juice," Ferrari was quoted as saying as he explained Gewiss's sweep of the podium to stunned reporters.

Shadow of dubious doctor

Nope, no smoke there. Drive through please.

 

[Big Doopie]

Oh oh, I'm afraid that incorrect too...
As mentioned on http://www.53x12.com in the biography, Ferrari is a Medical Doctor who took specialization in Sports.
A hematologist is quite another branch, my friend.

53x12 is a fraud. it was set up to deflect the fact that he actually has no sports knowledge whatsoever.

his speciality is blood.

 

[MacRoadie]

53x12 is a fraud. it was set up to deflect the fact that he actually has no sports knowledge whatsoever.

his speciality is blood.

It's the Italian version of CTS...

 

[hrotha]

Shadow of dubious doctor

Nope, no smoke there. Drive through please.

Thanks. That's a bit more explicit than I remembered. It's amazing that he could say that kind of stuff, that everyone knew what was going on in Gewiss, that everyone talked about EPO being the new miracle drug, and yet the UCI did nothing. Oh well. The more things change...

 

[Oldman]

It's the Italian version of CTS...

Actually it would be the other way around. Except Chris extracts money whether they get the gas or not.

 

[Big Doopie]

He wrote his doctorate on Blood, that is his specialty. His expertise is doping, not intervals.

...

Ferrari is a doping doctor, to pretend that he is not is willfully ignorant

yes, rr, exactly.

53x12 is a front (as is Carmichael the "coach"). It was set up only after the connection between armstrong and ferrari was made by walsh. he was involved in moser's world hour record because he was a specialist in blood (already back in the early 80s). Moser blood doped for his hour record and in the process destroyed a 12 year old record by a man he had almost never beaten in a TT, and even though moser was pretty old at the time (yes, early-mid 30s used to be considered old in cycling (before blood doping changed all that).

ferrari doctoring is all about blood -- not sports physiology.

 

[nia O'Malley]

2. Armstrong got cancer. The interesting thing is that his level of beta-hCG (the indicator of testicular cancer) should have been detected in routine doping tests months earlier. I'd imagine Armstrong felt two things: a) the cycling authorities weren't serious about catching dopers, so they were tacitly approving the practice and b) it was partially their fault that he almost died. If Armstrong had any moral doubts about doping, it's easy to see how they could have been erased. The UCI didn't care about doping and furthermore,they owed it to Armstrong.

3. So Armstrong went on to dominate the Tour de France rest assured that he wasn't a cheater because a) he had the moral high ground given his cancer and b) everyone else was cheating too. That attitude helps explain his issues with Christophe Bassons. Bassons' clean riding picked away at that moral high ground. Everyone wasn't cheating. Armstrong wasn't really an innocent victim of a dirty sport - he was part of the problem. Bassons mere existence must have irked him.

Woah. They paint him as a (borderline) psychopath.

I've never studied the man because I disliked him on sight, but whatever I read about him, whether by his detractors, or worse by his followers, keeps making things worse.

 

[perico]

It's more likely Greg red the Donati report himself. You can read it here. It's 109 pages and dry medical info at times, but eye opening.

I would strongly recommend everyone who wishes to comment on this issue at least peruse through it. Donati was extremely thorough in his report, painstakingly citing references, studies and sources.

Here is WADA's release, and info on Donati.

That is not it.

 

[Big GMaC]

Woah. They paint him as a (borderline) psychopath.

I've never studied the man because I disliked him on sight, but whatever I read about him, whether by his detractors, or worse by his followers, keeps making things worse.

I also think it is pretty close to the truth. He is a narcissist for sure, and bordering on psychopathic

 

[Big Doopie]

The #28 jersey, Ferrari's response to Lemond...all of this is like bubbles on some primitive strategic flow chart of marketing smoke. Get people to look somewhere else, ANYWHERE ELSE than the truth of the current moment. Like Race Radio said-they're getting really nervous. Ferrari may have been "cleared" in one instance because folks were willing to lie to protect themselves. Information gathered from US citizens before a Grand Jury may be harder to launder, rinse, ignore. Ignore that reality, Citizen.

excellent post.

 

[Big Doopie]

Evidence? Consistency please.

it has been reported many times that not only did he hire them to slime lemond, but that part of their "strategy" was to post on the cycling blogs to sway public/fan opinion.

 

[Bala Verde]

Here is a link to an old (2006) CN report about the process' outcome.

Michele Ferrari absolved of all charges by Italian appeals court

By Tim Maloney, European Editor

In a decision earlier this week, an Italian Court of Appeal in Bologna absolved Dr. Michele Ferrari of the sporting fraud charges related to accusations by Filippo Simeoni, as well as charges of abusing his medical license to write prescriptions "because the facts do not exist" to support these charges.

Ferrari was the preparatore for many top cyclists, most notably Lance Armstrong. On October 1, 2004, Ferrari was convicted of sporting fraud and abusing his medical license to write prescriptions and sentenced by Judge Maurizio Passarini to suspend his medical license for one year and a fine of €900. One of Ferrari's main accusers was Simeoni, who Ferrari worked with from late 1996 to late 1997, claimed that Ferrari had given him erythropoietin (epo) and Andriol (synthetic testosterone). But the appeals court found that Simeoni's accusations against Ferrari had no basis in fact and threw out Passarini's judgement.

After the successful appeal, Ferrari's attorney Dario Bolognesi said, "We're satisfied with this verdict, but we are still awaiting the full text of the court's decision that will shed light on why they overturned the original decision, because we have requested that the previous decision is removed from Doctor Ferrari's record. And we may also sue for damages."

According to this Italian source (2001), these quotes are attributed to him:

Per più di trent' anni i controlli non sono serviti a battere il doping.

I prodotti farmaceutici, legali o illegali, sono un must~io ho cercato di limitarne l' uso, somministrando prodotti legali o placebo

Tutto ciò che non viene individuato nei controlli non è doping

 

[Darryl Webster]

6) the cost of Epo on the black market was very high (about 150 US$ per dose); there were also other very expensive hormones, such as Gh, or Igf1; in other words the doping market was becoming as lucrative as the narcotics market;

This could be the reason the FDA is involved...the supply chain and web of connections..and I suspect it cross`s far more than just cycling sport.
I dont think its all about Lance for a moment. He just happens to the bigest public figure. Virtualy no one escapes suspition in the climate of the pro peloton, thats been true since year dot. At some leval all are complicit by choice or silent ignoring but theres never been one so blatant and manipulative as boy wonder and his legacy its small wonder he divides opinion so strongly .
Whatever dues he gets or doesnt will I hope be only one part of a fundimental purge and restructure at the UCI with pressure from the grass root membership of the various member nations.

Theres were the long term rot has always been.

 

[top_tenz_finish]

Well I do believe in the right to reply and think that Ferrari was wholly justified in rebuffing some of LeMond's comments. I don't think you can throw any old **** at anyone, even if they are guilty of other misdemeanours. Then again he has, and no doubt will again, had many things spun against him so I guess he will keep on going for all those connected to Armstrong.
However much I think Ferrari is guilty of doping I do just tire of seeing things like that LeMond article and the 'Dottore' story "cleverly" written..

 

[nia O'Malley]

I also think it is pretty close to the truth. He is a narcissist for sure, and bordering on psychopathic

That's what's worrying. It makes sense.

 

[Race Radio]

Here is an English translation of the early Donati report
http://www.ergogenics.org/donati.html

Ferrari's joke of a website was an attempt to make some cash. Ferreri is all about cash. He developed it with the help of Jorgy Muller, Ex USPS and Disco press guy

 

[MacRoadie]

Here is an English translation of the early Donati report
http://www.ergogenics.org/donati.html

Ferrari's joke of a website was an attempt to make some cash. Ferreri is all about cash. He developed it with the help of Jorgy Muller, Ex USPS and Disco press guy

That's the same document that I linked to earlier (albeit on a different site), and also quoted an excerpt from.

Ultimately, the 14-page dossier originally produced by Donati for CONI in 1994 seems to be lost, as was any subsequent response to Donati on its disposition (Section 9 of that 2003 report).

 

[Comeback 2011]

Here is an English translation of the early Donati report
http://www.ergogenics.org/donati.html

Ferrari's joke of a website was an attempt to make some cash. Ferreri is all about cash. He developed it with the help of Jorgy Muller, Ex USPS and Disco press guy

That's a provocative thing to say. How do you know this?

 

[Race Radio]

That's the same document that I linked to earlier (albeit on a different site), and also quoted an excerpt from.

Ultimately, the 14-page dossier originally produced by Donati for CONI in 1994 seems to be lost, as was any subsequent response to Donati on its disposition (Section 9 of that 2003 report).

Oh, you are right.

I know it used to be at this website http://www.sportpro.it but I cannot find it now.

 

[HokieJoe]

If Simeoni lacked credibility, Lance's decision to chase him down gave him all the credibility he needed.

That's a logical stretch IMO.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No, the so called "Dossier" is missing. I would still recommend anyone read the links that I, and MacRoadie (and RR) gave. They may not have "Ferrari doped cyclists" written across them, but they are significant and paint a clear picture.

The general point is the same, anyone who believes that Ferrari is operating as a cycling coach akin to Paul Koechli or Len Pettyjohn, who just happens to be a doctor but has nothing to do with doping, is either incredibly naive or incredibly disingenuous.