Electronic shifting v Mechanical?

[Oldman]

Evans was screwed out of second place at the Giro by DI2. Nibali played it safe by using tried and true cables.

And while he's paid to ride the stuff I'm sure he would have some choice words about complicated electrical shifting if he was allowed.

 

[BroDeal]

And while he's paid to ride the stuff I'm sure he would have some choice words about complicated electrical shifting if he was allowed.

That is why the problem has been described as an ambiguous mechanical incident. They don't want to give the detail of Evans having only a few usable gears, which did not include the lowest ones he needed.

 

[Parrot23]

Maybe the Secret Pro in a May 7 column was referring to something like this:

"...And speaking of new gear, some of our sponsors have been playing with prototypes and new product releases lately.

Unfortunately some of the new stuff is absolute crap. I can’t say exactly what the equipment is for fear of revealing my identity (and upsetting my sponsors – to their credit, they’re being very good about addressing the problems) but let’s just say that my team is thinking about going back to the equipment we had before until they get it right. We can’t afford to take any chances when we’re racing and so much is on the line – especially at the Tour."

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/05/the-secret-pro-2/

Then again, it's not too smart to use electronic or any newish gizmos in atrocious conditions. Don't think riders were using DI2 at Roubaix, or some not. Nibali's team smart to go with the older cabled Dura Ace to minimize risks.

 

[BroDeal]

Then again, it's not too smart to use electronic or any newish gizmos in atrocious conditions. Don't think riders were using DI2 at Roubaix, or some not. Nibali's team smart to go with the older cabled Dura Ace to minimize risks.

Nibali is using Campy.

 

[hfer07]

Nibali's team smart to go with the older cabled Dura Ace to minimize risks.

Astana is using C.A.M.P.A.G.N.O.L.O 80th anniversary edition (mechanical)

 

[Parrot23]

Whatever (my memory is not good enough), but the operative point is that he used cabled/wired stuff, from CN article at the start of the Giro.

The rest is incidental to me at least: Mercedes or BMW, I don't care. But battery or cable, yes, might make a diff. in atrocious conditions in a pro race (albeit makes no diff. to me personally).

Full disclosure: I use Ultegra DI2 now, but wouldn't pay for either Dura Ace or Campy. Would have to win it as a prize, LOL.

 

[Oldman]

Whatever (my memory is not good enough), but the operative point is that he used cabled/wired stuff, from CN article at the start of the Giro.

The rest is incidental to me at least: Mercedes or BMW, I don't care. But battery or cable, yes, might make a diff. in atrocious conditions in a pro race (albeit makes no diff. to me personally).

Full disclosure: I use Ultegra DI2 now, but wouldn't pay for either Dura Ace or Campy. Would have to win it as a prize, LOL.

There is a difference. Campy can be easily rebuilt and am on my 3rd round on some 10 speed levers. Now going to 11 speed to counter neutral race support wheel availability and long term reports that the Campy 11 is solid...as in finishing the Giro in horrible conditions.

 

[Parrot23]

Thanks for info.

Bike shop owner/ex racer here in Canada said to me that Campy stuff can be repaired (unscrewed etc.), whereas the Shimano stuff basicallly has to be replaced/thrown out if broken. My experience too when my old Ultegra shifters broke a few years back. Not fixable.

Yet, saw a guy building a Focus Izalco Team SL frame in a bike store a few days ago (a $10K bike maybe), this one with Campy Super Record EPS. Looked and felt a little plasticky compared to DI2, and bigger battery. Just an impression; could be completely wrong.

I'm glad to have either! I'll take the Campy if I can get it. Might be waiting a long time for a reasonable price...............................I hope not.

Wonder if BustedKnuckle has any free ones.

(Thinking Cadel is right to be ****ed. May have lost a good chance at Vuelta victory, didn't he, to tire failure or a wheel change/service screw-up a few years ago. He's been hurt by at least these two terrible "mechanicals".)

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Maybe the Secret Pro in a May 7 column was referring to something like this:

"...And speaking of new gear, some of our sponsors have been playing with prototypes and new product releases lately.

Unfortunately some of the new stuff is absolute crap. I can’t say exactly what the equipment is for fear of revealing my identity (and upsetting my sponsors – to their credit, they’re being very good about addressing the problems) but let’s just say that my team is thinking about going back to the equipment we had before until they get it right. We can’t afford to take any chances when we’re racing and so much is on the line – especially at the Tour."

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/05/the-secret-pro-2/

Then again, it's not too smart to use electronic or any newish gizmos in atrocious conditions. Don't think riders were using DI2 at Roubaix, or some not. Nibali's team smart to go with the older cabled Dura Ace to minimize risks.

Nibali is using mechanical but SuperRecord/Record mix, not DA.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Thanks for info.

Bike shop owner/ex racer here in Canada said to me that Campy stuff can be repaired (unscrewed etc.), whereas the Shimano stuff basicallly has to be replaced/thrown out if broken. My experience too when my old Ultegra shifters broke a few years back. Not fixable.

Yet, saw a guy building a Focus Izalco Team SL frame in a bike store a few days ago (a $10K bike maybe), this one with Campy Super Record EPS. Looked and felt a little plasticky compared to DI2, and bigger battery. Just an impression; could be completely wrong.

I'm glad to have either! I'll take the Campy if I can get it. Might be waiting a long time for a reasonable price...............................I hope not.

Wonder if BustedKnuckle has any free ones.

(Thinking Cadel is right to be ****ed. May have lost a good chance at Vuelta victory, didn't he, to tire failure or a wheel change/service screw-up a few years ago. He's been hurt by at least these two terrible "mechanicals".)

Have a demo Moots with Record EPS, I own it but I don't ride it. No freebies today thanks.

Carbon does 'feel' like plastic compared to metal(aluminum), shimano has been quietly putting quite a lot of carbon in their stuff lately. Like a carbon cog carrier on 9000 cogset(yowser, expensive) and of course, carbon brake levers.

Record is the way to go, IMHO..why I think it exists, for sponsorship. Metal FD, Metal 'knuckles' in the RD..Chorus cogsets and chain...

BTW-2014 will see a much smaller battery/processor for EPS..that can be mounted inside or out. A great flexibility, IMHO, rather than the either/or of shimano.

 

[biker jk]

Of course Campagnolo SR EPS didn't have any teething problems.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...t=106832&sid=a73c8823ebad32aaad48f15b6f57003b

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Of course Campagnolo SR EPS didn't have any teething problems.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...t=106832&sid=a73c8823ebad32aaad48f15b6f57003b

AND probably a few more w/o problems..from September 2012..

All stuff has problems..mechanical, electronic, both companies and lots from one additional company, who can't seem to design a front der(remove it!!).

One post on weight weenies does not a trend make.

 

[laziali]

6 Month Review

Well, now almost 6 months and 10,000km in with my DA 9070 Di2 11 speed and I can confidently say it is a complete KO against my mechanical DA 7900 (I also have first gen SRAM Red, but that's not even in the same universe).

What's so much better?

- Shifting the FD under full load out of the saddle and having 100% confidence that there will not be a lost chain. For me, this is my number one peeve with mechanical.
- Auto trim gives me a full 22 gears and zero chain rub.
- The speed of the FD shift is so much faster.
- Being able to shift the FD and RD at the same time - for example going from 53x23 to 39x15 as a climb kicks from 5% to 10% with no/minimal loss of momentum or power.
- Every RD shift is perfect, regardless of how hot it is (call me crazy, but I swear my RD shift is a bit off on mechanical DA on days over 35deg c.)
- As I said I'm closing in on 10,000km on the Di2 and I have not had to adjust the drivetrain at all. Battery has been charged just once which is a doddle via usb cable.

What's so much worse?

- The cost. Di2 9070 was almost $2,000 more than mechanical 9000 which is outrageous. Still, not outrageous enough to put me off

Would I go back to mechanical?

- No. For me this is as a big a change as when I went from downtube shifters to first gen STI in about 1992

BTW, 9070 brakes (and 9000 too, of course) are materially better than 7900 although that's off topic.

 

[laziali]

Maybe the Secret Pro in a May 7 column was referring to something like this:

"...And speaking of new gear, some of our sponsors have been playing with prototypes and new product releases lately.

Unfortunately some of the new stuff is absolute crap. I can’t say exactly what the equipment is for fear of revealing my identity (and upsetting my sponsors – to their credit, they’re being very good about addressing the problems) but let’s just say that my team is thinking about going back to the equipment we had before until they get it right. We can’t afford to take any chances when we’re racing and so much is on the line – especially at the Tour."

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/05/the-secret-pro-2/
...

Nope, as I posted at the start of this thread, the Secret Pro had this to say about Di2 earlier this year:

"Everyone in the pro peloton bashes one particular groupset though [ed. SRAM Red]. It’s all in good fun, but it’s an unwritten rule that you have to take the **** out of the guys who are on that groupset.

The electronic groupsets is where it’s at nowdays. Di2 has been brilliant. – absolutely flawless. From what I understand the 11spd Dura Ace is even better. It’s now just like Campag where you hold the button in and it just goes up or down the cassette. The riders say great things about it." http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/02/let-the-season-begin/

 

[Michele]

Im one of the guys considering strongly going eletronic in my next bike, but it seems among pro that there are a few problems with both groupsets, especially Shimano.
I was told last winter by an italian WT rider that the team would receive the old Di2 10 speed for training bikes cause it was more reliable than the new 11 speed, as it had still some minor problems.
Plus if you check out some teams like Garmin, they still seems to use often the Ultegra Di2 on their bikes, but this seems to be related to a poor offer from the brand itself.

disclaimer; Im not bashing any brand and Im still intended to try it out on my next bike.

 

[Benotti69]

Nibali uses mechanical campag. Canc uses mechanical DA.

 

[Oldman]

Nibali uses mechanical campag. Canc uses mechanical DA.

Just tried my conventional 11 speed Super Record for the first time last night. The grips and levers are flawless and I'm able to shift and brake from any position in drops or on the hoods. Tried electric Campag last week and it worked great but the hardware and recharging seems like pointless complication, still.

 

[laziali]

Im one of the guys considering strongly going eletronic in my next bike, but it seems among pro that there are a few problems with both groupsets, especially Shimano.
I was told last winter by an italian WT rider that the team would receive the old Di2 10 speed for training bikes cause it was more reliable than the new 11 speed, as it had still some minor problems.
Plus if you check out some teams like Garmin, they still seems to use often the Ultegra Di2 on their bikes, but this seems to be related to a poor offer from the brand itself.

disclaimer; Im not bashing any brand and Im still intended to try it out on my next bike.

I think you'll like electronic Michele.

On the issues you raise:

- I ride a lot, about 400km per week, but I don't rely on my bike for a living like a pro. If I did, I might be more worried like the Italiano PT rider you spoke with.

- Garmin are not sponsored by Shimano, so they have to buy their groupsets. Hence Ultegra Di2 rather than DA. 50+ bikes over the season makes for a lot of savings. (Source: inrng last year + Garmin website doesn't list Shimano under sponsors)

Interestingly, tho, Hesjedal rode with old 2012 DA Di2 10 speed drivetrain in the Giro. Looks from another photo from that site that he was riding 2013 DA9000/9070 calipers.

 

[Parrot23]

Nope, as I posted at the start of this thread, the Secret Pro had this to say about Di2 earlier this year:

"Everyone in the pro peloton bashes one particular groupset though [ed. SRAM Red]. It’s all in good fun, but it’s an unwritten rule that you have to take the **** out of the guys who are on that groupset.

The electronic groupsets is where it’s at nowdays. Di2 has been brilliant. – absolutely flawless. From what I understand the 11spd Dura Ace is even better. It’s now just like Campag where you hold the button in and it just goes up or down the cassette. The riders say great things about it." http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/02/let-the-season-begin/

Yes, you're right. (After I posted I remembered the above, but didn't correct mine...).

Useful 6-month info., yours.

DI2, Wiggins (at Trentino), Valverde (Liege), and Gesink (Giro) might all question its race reliability. There have been some big probs., each time at critical time: stage/race-losing proposition for each rider. Also, DI2 not used at Roubaix by most, for obvious reasons (Gesink dropped his chain on cobbles at Giro).

Fully satisfied with Ultegra DI2. No axe to grind. (Had to adjust FD a bit. Now have de facto zero chain rub with auto-truing).

 

[biker jk]

Yes, you're right. (After I posted I remembered the above, but didn't correct mine...).

Useful 6-month info., yours.

DI2, Wiggins (at Trentino), Valverde (Liege), and Gesink (Giro) might all question its race reliability. There have been some big probs., each time at critical time: stage/race-losing proposition for each rider. Also, DI2 not used at Roubaix by most, for obvious reasons (Gesink dropped his chain on cobbles at Giro).

Fully satisfied with Ultegra DI2. No axe to grind. (Had to adjust FD a bit. Now have de facto zero chain rub with auto-truing).

Re Valverde, Movistar uses Campagnolo Record EPS.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Evans was screwed out of second place at the Giro by DI2. Nibali played it safe by using tried and true cables.

I just bought a Time with Di2. If I get screwed out of 42nd place at the RMR crit because of Di2, I am going to be MAD.

 

[avanti]

During today's (6/10) beIN coverage of the Tour de Suisse it was reported that one rider's (I think it was Boonen) electrical wire separated from his rear derailleur leaving him stuck on one sprocket.
Can anyone confirm?

 

[winkybiker]

Just tried my conventional 11 speed Super Record for the first time last night. The grips and levers are flawless and I'm able to shift and brake from any position in drops or on the hoods. Tried electric Campag last week and it worked great but the hardware and recharging seems like pointless complication, still.

Yep, it is brilliant isn't it? I'm afraid the electronic systems solve problems I just don't have. And I have enough gadgets to keep charged.

 

[simo1733]

I am in the process of getting Record/SRecord mechanical.I am interested to read that some proo's are using a mix of Record/S Record.
Which components do they favour Record?

 

[Polyarmour]

I've been riding DA Di2 for 5 months now. Performed impeccably until the weekend when it left me stranded in the 12 tooth on the local mountain. Had to call my wife for a lift home and I wasn't happy. Now I'm riding my 105 bike and it's slipping out of gears and crunching and carrying on and I'm reminded that I never once had this problem with the Di2. However even though the 105 needs some servicing, it won't leave me stranded. So there it is for me, the failure modes have different consequences. Di2 will perform really well most of the time but one day it's going to let you down big time. Mechanical requires more attention and fine tuning which is very frustrating but probably won't leave you stranded. For me the Di2 is still the superior product but if it failed during my biggest race/goal of the year I think I'd be tempted to take an axe to it.