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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

Page 635 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
So, again, in your perspective trolling is having an opinion supported with arguments. Your reaction without arguments wouldn't be trolling. I hope you realize that you are completely bogging yourself down.

So, again. I will react with arguments. Roglic came to P-N after an altitude trainingperiod. He should be good than. In the past, Roglic already did well for his first race or stagerace. One could accept Roglic not winning P-N after changing teams, material, co-operating with new teammates.... But ending on the 9th place at 5'33" !?
Roglic will certainly improve. To be at his best for the Tour. But dueling with Vingegaard and Pogacar ? No way. Fighting for a top five with Yates, Evenepoel, Ayuso etc.... ? Yes.
That is exactly what everyone here a saying even before P/N race happened so i don't know why you go on on some sort of crusade against everybody. Except, we HOPE something magical happens and he does even better. That's what fans do.

There are more then just one argument why R. underperformed in P/N but you choose to ignore all of them, yet your argument (coming from altitude and lack of Visma foodapp - you should be banned for this) is 100% right? Please.
 
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ftm

Mar 11, 2024
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Agree. I have a feeling that everything that could go wrong did go wrong this week.
It would seem so, but then the man himself said he didn't have the legs. There are a few narratives here, I've seen several interviews and articles and they seem to contradict each other, although it's true that most have been translated from the original language and then I've translated them again so some nuance might be missing.

Not sure if they are really this amateurish when it comes to talking to the press (VLAB has a very tight leash on this) or if they are all scrambling to understand what's going on and saying the first thing that comes to mind. One minute they say it's OK and it was expected, the next one it changes to it shouldn't be like this and they need to find out what the matter is.

Let's hope for the sake of cycling that he hasn't declined that badly. Whether you like him or not as a rider, having more contenders certainly changes the dynamics of a race.
 
Yeah, chill. Sagan didn't exactly light it up at Tour des Alpes Maritimes when he moved to Total Energies.
While it's possible that he's "done" there are plenty of other explanations still on the table, so it's not the first thing i would think of. Sagan was already well in decline last seasons while he was still at Bora. Roglic won the Giro last year and finished on the podium of the Vuelta.
 
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That is exactly what everyone here a saying even before P/N race happened so i don't know why you go on on some sort of crusade against everybody. Except, we HOPE something magical happens and he does even better. That's what fans do.

There are more then just one argument why R. underperformed in P/N but you choose to ignore all of them, yet your argument (coming from altitude and lack of Visma foodapp - you should be banned for this) is 100% right? Please.
But myself and different other persons already predicted this winter, after changing teams, that Roglic still would be strong, but that he would no longer reach the same level. He is also becoming older...
It's not my fault Roglic-fans didn't want to accept those arguments and predicted Roglic would still be in the top 3 in GT's. Already having troubles to achieve a top 10 in a small stagecompetition raises questions. Then it is normal for me to wonder whether he, even in top form, can still duel for the podium in the Tour. No problem you, having another opinion. But stop calling someone a troll (what you did several times with other persons in the past) when persons have other opinions. Then go sue someone against the kindergarten teacher... Il faut le faire !
 
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I hope this is an excuse and they know the actual reason, because this doesn't make a lot of sense.
I could see how all these small changes, having to change patterns, remembering to do things differently, working together with other people (mechanics, soigneurs...) who don't know what you like/prefer, first time trying different brand nutrition maybe etc... all add up and become a nervous undertaking that sap energy without you noticing. Especially for a rider who is supposed to be somewhat of a perfectionist.
 

ftm

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FFS this is so silly

Does the coach really believe all this nonsense? So nutrition at VLAB is so good that it works immediately for every single rider that joins , no matter what they did before, it's one formula fits all, but it you leave that team it turns into the search for the holy grial? Or is it just if you move to Bora? I've never hear any rider explain a bad performance with such a convoluted reason

.C'mon... all their new signings are delivering and they come from different teams so it's surprising they've all adapted so well if it's such a complex issue. They are taking the piss.
 
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I could see how all these small changes, having to change patterns, remembering to do things differently, working together with other people (mechanics, soigneurs...) who don't know what you like/prefer, first time trying different brand nutrition maybe etc... all add up and become a nervous undertaking that sap energy without you noticing. Especially for a rider who is supposed to be somewhat of a perfectionist.
But he's been working with them for a while now. Things like the bike for example. Hasn't he been riding on that bike for at least 3 months now?

I don't think he suddenly turned too old, or is just bad. I'm not sure what it is. I also didn't find him impressive in the Giro, and I don't know how his preparation was different towards the Vuelta where he was really good.
 
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FFS this is so silly

Does the coach really believe all this nonsense? So nutrition at VLAB is so good that it works immediately for every single rider that joins , no matter what they did before, it's one formula fits all, but it you leave that team it turns into the search for the holy grial? Or is it just if you move to Bora? I've never hear any rider explain a bad performance with such a convoluted reason

.C'mon... all their new signings are delivering and they come from different teams so it's surprising they've all adapted so well if it's such a complex issue. They are taking the piss.
Maybe this is the beginning of the "Quickstep sprinter phenomena" for riders that leave VLAB.
 
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[content deleted]
And again, no arguments.

By calling me a troll, you can't stop me to establish that Roglic does not reach a (sub) top level for his first race(s) after an altitude training period. Level that he always reached in previous years before his first competition and/or after altitude training. Vingegaard, Pogacar and Evenepoel, winning ther first races (Evenepoel even without altitude training). This observation, combined with the move to a less strong team, combined with his advancing age (34) allows me and other analists to predict that Roglic will no longer be among the top 3 of GC riders. I recently wrote on this forum that Roglic will win a few more races this year. I never wrote "not winning any races anymore". That's another lie of you. Maybe I have to report that.
I also wrote Roglic would reach a higher level later in the season and reach his (relative) toplevel at the start of the Tour. But not his level of a few years back (even than he didn't win the Tour), but a level allowing him to fight for a top five in the Tour (he could end as seventh, or as fourth, or...). But winning. No way. Based on the fact that he will be much less strongly surrounded by (almost) equal or even better teammates, that he was never used to attack in a strong field before the last km, that he was never used to close a gap on his own. And of course his age. For sure not too old for the longer endurancestages. But maybe too old for the last km uphillsprint victories. All this is a very objective assessment.

As a Roglic fan you can hope that things will turn out differently. But insulting analysts with another substantiated opinion on this forum and in the press and even calling them trolls says a lot about yourself.
 
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And again, no arguments.

By calling me a troll, you can't stop me to establish that Roglic does not reach a (sub) top level for his first race(s) after an altitude training period. Level that he always reached in previous years before his first competition and/or after altitude training. Vingegaard, Pogacar and Evenepoel, winning ther first races (Evenepoel even without altitude training). This observation, combined with the move to a less strong team, combined with his advancing age (34) allows me and other analists to predict that Roglic will no longer be among the top 3 of GC riders. I recently wrote on this forum that Roglic will win a few more races this year. I never wrote "not winning any races anymore". That's another lie of you. Maybe I have to report that.
I also wrote Roglic would reach a higher level later in the season and reach his (relative) toplevel at the start of the Tour. But not his level of a few years back (even than he didn't win the Tour), but a level allowing him to fight for a top five in the Tour (he could end as seventh, or as fourth, or...). But winning. No way. Based on the fact that he will be much less strongly surrounded by (almost) equal or even better teammates, that he was never used to attack in a strong field before the last km, that he was never used to close a gap on his own. And of course his age. For sure not too old for the longer endurancestages. But maybe too old for the last km uphillsprint victories. All this is a very objective assessment.

As a Roglic fan you can hope that things will turn out differently. But insulting analysts with another substantiated opinion on this forum and in the press and even calling them trolls says a lot about yourself.
Your quote:
"So, again. With content and arguments. Roglic isn't the same rider anymore now he has lost the enormous support of his former team. He was never used to ride in a offensive manner against strong opponents. But Roglic is still a talented rider. Who will win (a stage) a few more times. The same, but on a lower scale, with Almeida. But please, take off your blinders and have a neutral discussion."

So he won't win any race any more, just a stage or two. Right? You said that, not me. So i'll be happy when R. wins a race and keeps you quiet. I'm sure you'll find something else to point out then.

You have plenty arguments in these last pages, learn to read, not only throwing up your flawed opinions...again...and again....and again.
 
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FFS this is so silly

Does the coach really believe all this nonsense? So nutrition at VLAB is so good that it works immediately for every single rider that joins , no matter what they did before, it's one formula fits all, but it you leave that team it turns into the search for the holy grial? Or is it just if you move to Bora? I've never hear any rider explain a bad performance with such a convoluted reason

.C'mon... all their new signings are delivering and they come from different teams so it's surprising they've all adapted so well if it's such a complex issue. They are taking the piss.
That is a correct analysis. But according to some it should not be made.
Even noticing that riders who move to Visma immediately reach a (much) higher level (Jorgenson) but that riders who leave Jumbo (now Visma) suddenly drop to a lower level (Roglic) should (almost) not be mentioned on this forum. While that analysis is being made a lot in the cycling world and in the press (the independent press, not those associated with teams). Are we going to make the same mistake again as before?
One could only hope that Uijtdebroeks will not soon have a top three in a GC, otherwise questions can be asked. Fortunately he only finished seventh in the Tirreno ;) . Although that was mainly because he had to work hard for Vingegaard.
 
Your quote:
"So, again. With content and arguments. Roglic isn't the same rider anymore now he has lost the enormous support of his former team. He was never used to ride in a offensive manner against strong opponents. But Roglic is still a talented rider. Who will win (a stage) a few more times. The same, but on a lower scale, with Almeida. But please, take off your blinders and have a neutral discussion."

So he won't win any race any more, just a stage or two. Right? You said that, not me. So i'll be happy when R. wins a race and keeps you quiet. I'm sure you'll find something else to point out then.

You have plenty arguments in these last pages, learn to read, not only throwing up your flawed opinions...again...and again....and again.
As I wrote "who will win (a stage) a few more times". Is that too difficult for you to understand ? You claimed I wrote "not winning any races anymore". So a clear lie from you. Everyone can now clearly determine that.

In the meantime, I am still waiting for your arguments as to why you think Roglic is still as strong as he used to be at Jumbo. Or will be in a few weeks or at the start of te Tour. I remember you I stated that Roglic would be better at the start of the Tour, even in topshape. But not good enough to compete for the podium.
 
But he's been working with them for a while now. Things like the bike for example. Hasn't he been riding on that bike for at least 3 months now?

I don't think he suddenly turned too old, or is just bad. I'm not sure what it is. I also didn't find him impressive in the Giro, and I don't know how his preparation was different towards the Vuelta where he was really good.
Sure, but still a lot is new during the first actual race. DS in the car, teammates on the road, mechanic touching his bike every day... i'm not saying Roglic is an OCD kind of guy, but i could see how this could raise the stress levels, who knows even cut down your sleep by half an hour every day and impact the top-end performance. He basically grew up at Visma, was top dog for years, everybody knew him and how he liked things. He didn't have to tell Wout, Robert or Jan how he liked the pace, how close they needed to ride, etc. Now what seemed evident before, needs to be addressed.

It's also not like he got dropped like a brick every time the road went up. Except for the last day, when it was probably the weather that did him in, he was "in the ballpark" and if it were any other guy (or maybe any other than Roglic, Pogacar, Vingegaard) nobody would bat an eye. I mean, Almeida finished behind him. Mas was 12th in Tirreno, Hart didn't make the top 20. I think it's a bit too soon for hysterics.

If you take the TTT and boniseconds out of the equation, he would have been in almost the exact same time as Evenepoel before the start of the final stage.
 
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Like I said over the weekend, lack of FoodCoach. BORA doesn't have the same supplier of nutrients and supplements as Jumbo, so he cannot just copy + paste his intake and consumables (be it during the race or during breakfast). Lamberts is also talking out of his ass when trying to paint some imaginary picture about Roglic in March historically speaking. He didn't lose in 2021 because he wasn't 'top'. He lost because he committed suicide in the valley towards Levens after a mechanical/crash, having won 3 stages and a minute lead beforehand. This is pure spin.
 
The only way to properly judge Roglic is at the Tour because that’s his only goal, he doesn’t care about anything else. He’s working towards being the absolute best for it.

If Roglic does enter the Tour at 100% I think the biggest thing he has to worry about is how hard Visma and UAE could make every single stage like last year. There’s already the critique that he has difficulty when the race is long and/or hard and that’s going to be the Tour unless Vingegaard crashes out. Losing some of his acceleration but getting better endurance could be big.
 
While it's possible that he's "done" there are plenty of other explanations still on the table, so it's not the first thing i would think of. Sagan was already well in decline last seasons while he was still at Bora. Roglic won the Giro last year and finished on the podium of the Vuelta.
His first major time donation came via the TTT. Incremental losses, as suffered by Remco were due to lack of response. He may have had "bad legs" but I seldom believe a rider suggesting he is suffering from weakness in a stage race. It's strategically a thing to lie about your form. You don't owe fans honesty until you've won or lost IMO and certainly don't provide information to opponents. The last stage he clearly wasn't going to contest and was relying on Vlasov. While he finished: he looked like he just cashed in and suffered through the cold to end the race. Nothing to contest and no need to waste energy.
He is definitely under raced and altitude camps don't help that in races largely contested below 1,500 m from my experience. No need to panic, for sure.
 
He is definitely under raced and altitude camps don't help that in races largely contested below 1,500 m from my experience. No need to panic, for sure.
Obviously this is not correct. Nearly all pro cyclocrossers go on altitude at least once during winter and they race mostly at sea level. Van Aert even does altitude in the middle of the classics season.