Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Ilmaestro99]

Tactical disasterclass again

 

[cen]

On the positive side, he is on an upwards trajectory.. next year second and the year after he finally wins it?

 

[SHAD0W93]

On the positive side, he is on an upwards trajectory.. next year second and the year after he finally wins it?

2024 Skip
2025 2nd
2026 Skip
2027 1st

 

[SHAD0W93]

What month is the over/under of Roglic catching and passing EBH in wins? I think the overall consensus will be Feb or March but I’m feeling a late win start for a big peak in July.

 

[acm]

Great interview with Marc Lamberts, coach of Rogla and Wout.
"The most emotional moment is the climbing time trial of the Giro. Primoz came back after a difficult period following his fall in the 2022 Vuelta and his shoulder surgery in the winter. During the Giro he fell again. We were able to keep the consequences quiet, but for a week he felt pain with every pedal step. I no longer expected him to win the Giro."
https://www.knack.be/sport/wielrenn...-van-wout-een-glas-champagne-blijven-drinken/

 

[Netserk]

Great interview with Marc Lamberts, coach of Rogla and Wout.
"The most emotional moment is the climbing time trial of the Giro. Primoz came back after a difficult period following his fall in the 2022 Vuelta and his shoulder surgery in the winter. During the Giro he fell again. We were able to keep the consequences quiet, but for a week he felt pain with every pedal step. I no longer expected him to win the Giro."
https://www.knack.be/sport/wielrenn...-van-wout-een-glas-champagne-blijven-drinken/

Which makes it all the more puzzling that Jumbo chased all day to Bondone.

 

[tobydawq]

What month is the over/under of Roglic catching and passing EBH in wins? I think the overall consensus will be Feb or March but I’m feeling a late win start for a big peak in July.

I think September 2023.

(PCS count three stage wins in Tour de l'Avenir for Boasson Hagen which shouldn't count)

 

[Rackham]

You follow Primoz Roglic, but you have to leave Wout van Aert, with whom you have worked for eleven years. How hard was it to tell him the message?

LAMBERTS: I visited Wout's house last Saturday, before he left for Italy. With the excuse that I wanted to discuss the training plan for 2024. That was true, but I had another announcement. One that I absolutely wanted to tell face to face. I had intended not to cry, but I didn't succeed. Wout said he tried to be tough, but he didn't have it easy either. Logical, after all these years.

Van Aert probably took the news he was getting dumped by Lamberts for Rogla really well, I think.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I think September 2023.

(PCS count three stage wins in Tour de l'Avenir for Boasson Hagen which shouldn't count)

On that route what about the 3 wins in Tour d'Azerbaïdjan for Roglic? Like Avenir it’s listed as 2.2 in previous years and changes to 2.1 on PCS.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

On that route what about the 3 wins in Tour d'Azerbaïdjan for Roglic? Like Avenir it’s listed as 2.2 in previous years and changes to 2.1 on PCS.

Since you normally count 2.1 wins no matter the level of competition, then EBH wins should also count. And unlike Roglič in Azerbaijan, he was actually up against riders from top level teams. But it doesn't change the fact that l'Avenir was a U25 race.

 

[Red Rick]

Since you normally count 2.1 wins no matter the level of competition, then EBH wins should also count. And unlike Roglič in Azerbaijan, he was actually up against riders from top level teams. But it doesn't change the fact that l'Avenir was a U25 race.

I'd cut l'Avenir because of the age restriction, as well as national champs cause they're so uneven between country and after that Roglic should be about 50 wins ahead

 

[SHAD0W93]

Since you normally count 2.1 wins no matter the level of competition, then EBH wins should also count. And unlike Roglič in Azerbaijan, he was actually up against riders from top level teams. But it doesn't change the fact that l'Avenir was a U25 race.

But for those 2 years it’s listed a 2.1 so was it a 2.1 at the time or still U23?

I'd cut l'Avenir because of the age restriction, as well as national champs cause they're so uneven between country and after that Roglic should be about 50 wins ahead

Not like Roglic hasn’t raced the nationals and undermines how good some of EBH’s competition was some years despite it being a small cycling country.

 

[bill1109]

IMO he would need a Kuss and Wout to accomplish that along with solid and sensible team management. Ineos might provide that but the fallout from transfers always can screw up the best plan. There are no shortage of aspirants for a Tour podium on that team.
Strategically he'd need to pick one of the two to shadow with a willingness to work to weaken the odd rider out. I know I've said that before but starting with a plan to beat everyone at once only works with a stacked situation like JV had at the Vuelta. I doubt that'll work again.

I guess it's exciting to reignite hopes of a tour de France win but come on, does anyone really think he can win the tour if Ving or pogi ride it? I like roglic. Pogi has long season and wins Lombardia...Rog has long season and gets third. Winning tour is not happening. But good to think it ...I guess. Take the money ..smart...but winning tour. No. Jumbo gave him many chances. How many times did he crash? What if he crashes w Bora ?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

But for those 2 years it’s listed a 2.1 so was it a 2.1 at the time or still U23?

It was a 2.1 race for U25 riders.

 

[roundabout]

Yeah, Avenir was 2.1 ME in 2006

www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling

IIRC the categorizations on the calendar pages were more or less correct at the time

 

[Lequack]

Coach of Roglic also to Bora for 3 years

https://www.knack.be/sport/wielrennen/marc-lamberts-de-coach-van-wout-van-aert-vertrekt-bij-jumbo-visma-ik-zal-bij-elke-grote-zege-van-wout-een-glas-champagne-blijven-drinken/

Interesting quote, about why he didn't go to Ineos when offered:
"It makes it easier to close the door behind me. Especially because everyone gives me this transfer and understands why I am taking this step. First of all, Wout. He knows that I did not go into a very nice proposal from INEOS in 2020. I didn’t know about my heart to abandon him after his crash in the Tour. I don't feel that right now. Wout can continue without me. I compare it to my daughter, who will marry next week. At some point, you need to let go of your children, even if it is not easy."

 

[Rackham]

I read the full article.

Roglič emphasised the fact he wanted to take his coach with him to his new team during his transfer negotiations. Lamberts said he wouldn't have followed him just for the sake of it, he wanted something with a good foundation to work with & a good environment already. That's Bora.

I think Bora suited everyone tbh. Rog gets a solid team with a cultural base similar to what he's known at Jumbo (& almost neighboring Slovenia). Lamberts gets a good team to work with & Jumbo didn't sell to one of their biggest rivals (Ineos or UAE) in the UCI rankings.

Win-win-win.

 

[tobydawq]

It was a 2.1 race for U25 riders.

Still, age restricted races shouldn't count as pro wins no matter the categorisation.

Junior races are also called 1.1 and 2.1...

 

[cellardoor]

I guess it's exciting to reignite hopes of a tour de France win but come on, does anyone really think he can win the tour if Ving or pogi ride it? I like roglic. Pogi has long season and wins Lombardia...Rog has long season and gets third. Winning tour is not happening. But good to think it ...I guess. Take the money ..smart...but winning tour. No. Jumbo gave him many chances. How many times did he crash? What if he crashes w Bora ?

The one way to be sure you won't win is if you give up and don't try.

 

[lpfe]

I guess it's exciting to reignite hopes of a tour de France win but come on, does anyone really think he can win the tour if Ving or pogi ride it? I like roglic. Pogi has long season and wins Lombardia...Rog has long season and gets third. Winning tour is not happening. But good to think it ...I guess. Take the money ..smart...but winning tour. No. Jumbo gave him many chances. How many times did he crash? What if he crashes w

I guess it's exciting to reignite hopes of a tour de France win but come on, does anyone really think he can win the tour if Ving or pogi ride it? I like roglic. Pogi has long season and wins Lombardia...Rog has long season and gets third. Winning tour is not happening. But good to think it ...I guess. Take the money ..smart...but winning tour. No. Jumbo gave him many chances. How many times did he crash? What if he crashes w Bora ?

Do you have a crystal ball or what ?
If someone can win Giro and Vuelta, he can also win the Tour. Crashes can happen to everyone and what do you mean "Jumbo gave him enough chances". A lot of crap happened as well and before he joined Jumbo was nothing.

 

[bNator]

Your take is fair.

Bora will not win a GT with Roglic. Loss.
Roglic will end his career without winning another GT. Loss.
JV lost a great athlete that could have won another GT with that team. Loss.

Sums it up i think.

Roglic is done.

Your take, however, is contradictory...

If Roglic IS a great athlete who COULD have won another GT with TJV (this part I agree with), why on earth would he not win it with Bora? Could be 2 reasons:
1. Roglic needs a top team to win a GT otherwise he has no chance. Evidence to the contrary: 2023 Giro win
2. Bora can't produce a decent enough team to have a shot at GT. Evidence to the contrary: 2022 Giro win
Bora can produce a much better team than Roglic had this year's Giro. Much better...

The biggest risk here is Roglic, to be honest. His age might catch up with him very suddenly. But even in this case, it's not lose/lose/lose but lose/win/win.

 

[bNator]

To all the posters who claim Roglic has no legitimate shot at winning the Tour and should not focus on that. That's complete insanity. He is number 3 GC racer in the world. If he doesn't, who does? Applying this logic, all GC contenders should just go elsewhere and it would be just Vinge vs Pog because you know, why bother?

 

[SHAD0W93]

Your take, however, is contradictory...

If Roglic IS a great athlete who COULD have won another GT with TJV (this part I agree with), why on earth would he not win it with Bora? Could be 2 reasons:
1. Roglic needs a top team to win a GT otherwise he has no chance. Evidence to the contrary: 2021 Vuelta win
2. Bora can't produce a decent enough team to have a shot at GT. Evidence to the contrary: 2022 Giro win
Bora can produce a much better team than Roglic had this year's Giro. Much better...

The biggest risk here is Roglic, to be honest. His age might catch up with him very suddenly. But even in this case, it's not lose/lose/lose but lose/win/win.

The rest of the team and Kuss especially came in clutch to keep Roglic close to Geriant. Otherwise without Kuss pacing him up the mountain after he got dropped, Roglic could have dominated the TT and still lost the Giro due to the mechanical that occurred.

 

[Gargamel35]

To all the posters who claim Roglic has no legitimate shot at winning the Tour and should not focus on that. That's complete insanity. He is number 3 GC racer in the world. If he doesn't, who does? Applying this logic, all GC contenders should just go elsewhere and it would be just Vinge vs Pog because you know, why bother?

Even Pog should just abandon Tour racing since he got demolished by Skeleton two times in a row. Basically, if Vinge shows up, everyone else should just go home. That's some champions thinking right there.

 

[Gargamel35]

The rest of the team and Kuss especially came in clutch to keep Roglic close to Geriant. Otherwise without Kuss pacing him up the mountain after he got dropped, Roglic could have dominated the TT and still lost the Giro due to the mechanical that occurred.

He crashed and had a lot of problems in Giro because of that. Hi's tranier who is going to Bora now said days days ago how much problems they had with his injuries and how much pain he was in all the time.

Roglič has one big problem in his Tour or any GT bid. Staying healthy (not crashing) before them and during. I just want to see him coming in the Tour without injuries and making it through it without them. He doesn't have much time...