Teams & Riders Fabio Aru discussion thread

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Re: Re:

toolittle said:
Aru said : “We reached an agreement with Froome, that’s true. We were not so much working to chase down Bardet as we were also to gain time on the guys chasing behind.”

Who is Aru the big big big big big treat to cause him giving up Yellow Chance?

1 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 38:26:28
2 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:00:18
3 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:51
4 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale-Drapac 0:00:55
5 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana Pro Team 0:01:37
6 Daniel Martin (Irl) Quick-Step Floors 0:01:44
7 Simon Yates (GBr) Orica-Scott 0:02:02
8 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 0:02:13
9 Mikel Landa (Spa) Team Sky 0:03:06
10 George Bennett (NZl) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 0:03:53
11 Louis Meintjes (RSA) UAE Team Emirates 0:05:00
12 Alberto Contador (Spa) Trek-Segafredo 0:05:15
It is only the ninth stage - at this point someone like Aru (who probably went into the Tour thinking of a podium) wants to put others out of contention, and he did so pretty well. Now the focus will hopefulyl be on yellow. But it was logical to try to put time into others in order to win yellow. Anyway, I am not sure how much time Aru could have put into Froome in 15km of flat.
 
Apr 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
toolittle said:
Aru said : “We reached an agreement with Froome, that’s true. We were not so much working to chase down Bardet as we were also to gain time on the guys chasing behind.”

Who is Aru the big big big big big treat to cause him giving up Yellow Chance?

1 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 38:26:28
2 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:00:18
3 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:51
4 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale-Drapac 0:00:55
5 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana Pro Team 0:01:37
6 Daniel Martin (Irl) Quick-Step Floors 0:01:44
7 Simon Yates (GBr) Orica-Scott 0:02:02
8 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 0:02:13
9 Mikel Landa (Spa) Team Sky 0:03:06
10 George Bennett (NZl) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 0:03:53
11 Louis Meintjes (RSA) UAE Team Emirates 0:05:00
12 Alberto Contador (Spa) Trek-Segafredo 0:05:15
It is only the ninth stage - at this point someone like Aru (who probably went into the Tour thinking of a podium) wants to put others out of contention, and he did so pretty well. Now the focus will hopefulyl be on yellow. But it was logical to try to put time into others in order to win yellow. Anyway, I am not sure how much time Aru could have put into Froome in 15km of flat.
the smart play would have been to sit back and let Froome do the work with the others if they liked then attack him if he starts to tire and if he doesn't then he still expended much more energy then the Astana duo

this was just as stupid as last years Vuelta when they helped Froome and kept him on the podium
 
IF it were the last week, they would have done that. But it was only stage 9, and they still have others, apart from Froome, to fight. And like I said, they wouldn't have eben able to put much time into Froome like that, and Quintana and Martin would still be in contention.
 
Apr 15, 2016
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Brullnux said:
IF it were the last week, they would have done that. But it was only stage 9, and they still have others, apart from Froome, to fight. And like I said, they wouldn't have eben able to put much time into Froome like that, and Quintana and Martin would still be in contention.
Who gives a damn what stage it was , the opportunity was there to put time into Froome (or at least make him expend more energy) as well as Q/Martin . Had they sat back they may have accomplished both since sitting back wouldn't have allowed the chasers to gain much if any time anyways .

It was pure stupidity working with Froome , he's by far the biggest threat and GC contenders should take any opportunity they have to put time into him . Sit back for 8/10 kms and then attack , that may have gained them 10/20 seconds . Aru is going to need at least 1:30-2 min lead going into the final tt if he wants to win and it'll be extremely difficult if not impossible to get all that time in 1 stage .

also Team Sky have been weakened since Froome's top 2 doms (Porte-G) have crashed out so this may give the others a better shot at the overall
 
Re: Re:

red zone said:
Brullnux said:
IF it were the last week, they would have done that. But it was only stage 9, and they still have others, apart from Froome, to fight. And like I said, they wouldn't have eben able to put much time into Froome like that, and Quintana and Martin would still be in contention.
Who gives a damn what stage it was , the opportunity was there to put time into Froome (or at least make him expend more energy) as well as Q/Martin . Had they sat back they may have accomplished both since sitting back wouldn't have allowed the chasers to gain much if any time anyways .

It was pure stupidity working with Froome , he's by far the biggest threat and GC contenders should take any opportunity they have to put time into him . Sit back for 8/10 kms and then attack , that may have gained them 10/20 seconds . Aru is going to need at least 1:30-2 min lead going into the final tt if he wants to win and it'll be extremely difficult if not impossible to get all that time in 1 stage .

also Team Sky have been weakened since Froome's top 2 doms (Porte-G) have crashed out so this may give the others a better shot at the overall
There are still three or four stages to get it back. I also very much doubt Aru can take twenty seconds in five kilometres on Froome, who was stronger than him that day, of flat roads.
 
Apr 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
red zone said:
Brullnux said:
IF it were the last week, they would have done that. But it was only stage 9, and they still have others, apart from Froome, to fight. And like I said, they wouldn't have eben able to put much time into Froome like that, and Quintana and Martin would still be in contention.
Who gives a damn what stage it was , the opportunity was there to put time into Froome (or at least make him expend more energy) as well as Q/Martin . Had they sat back they may have accomplished both since sitting back wouldn't have allowed the chasers to gain much if any time anyways .

It was pure stupidity working with Froome , he's by far the biggest threat and GC contenders should take any opportunity they have to put time into him . Sit back for 8/10 kms and then attack , that may have gained them 10/20 seconds . Aru is going to need at least 1:30-2 min lead going into the final tt if he wants to win and it'll be extremely difficult if not impossible to get all that time in 1 stage .

also Team Sky have been weakened since Froome's top 2 doms (Porte-G) have crashed out so this may give the others a better shot at the overall
There are still three or four stages to get it back. I also very much doubt Aru can take twenty seconds in five kilometres on Froome, who was stronger than him that day, of flat roads.
you like to ignore reality to believe the entire peleton should work towards Froome's 4th tour win

Firstly it isn't just Aru attacking Froome after they've have done equal work , it's Aru-Birdsong-Uran attacking him after they've sat back and let Froome work and weaken himself by chasing .

I don't understand what the difficulty in understanding this is , Froome's wearing the yellow and the onus was on him to chase Bardet , it's not on whoever's with him to help him limit losses . Froome was isolated and had the rest sat back i don't see how they couldn't put some time into him by working together . Then again i'm not a Sky fan so maybe my judgement isn't being clouded .
 
Mar 16, 2015
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Aru showed good recovery during the third week in the past years, on the other hand, Froome always ended a bit short, living on the time he gained during the first two weeks. This time he has a very small advantage though, could he crack on the Izoard?
 
Re: Re:

red zone said:
Brullnux said:
red zone said:
Brullnux said:
IF it were the last week, they would have done that. But it was only stage 9, and they still have others, apart from Froome, to fight. And like I said, they wouldn't have eben able to put much time into Froome like that, and Quintana and Martin would still be in contention.
Who gives a damn what stage it was , the opportunity was there to put time into Froome (or at least make him expend more energy) as well as Q/Martin . Had they sat back they may have accomplished both since sitting back wouldn't have allowed the chasers to gain much if any time anyways .

It was pure stupidity working with Froome , he's by far the biggest threat and GC contenders should take any opportunity they have to put time into him . Sit back for 8/10 kms and then attack , that may have gained them 10/20 seconds . Aru is going to need at least 1:30-2 min lead going into the final tt if he wants to win and it'll be extremely difficult if not impossible to get all that time in 1 stage .

also Team Sky have been weakened since Froome's top 2 doms (Porte-G) have crashed out so this may give the others a better shot at the overall
There are still three or four stages to get it back. I also very much doubt Aru can take twenty seconds in five kilometres on Froome, who was stronger than him that day, of flat roads.
you like to ignore reality to believe the entire peleton should work towards Froome's 4th tour win

Firstly it isn't just Aru attacking Froome after they've have done equal work , it's Aru-Birdsong-Uran attacking him after they've sat back and let Froome work and weaken himself by chasing .

I don't understand what the difficulty in understanding this is , Froome's wearing the yellow and the onus was on him to chase Bardet , it's not on whoever's with him to help him limit losses . Froome was isolated and had the rest sat back i don't see how they couldn't put some time into him by working together . Then again i'm not a Sky fan so maybe my judgement isn't being clouded .
I'm a sky fan?

I understand why it could've worked, but Uran isn't going for the win and Aru wasn't as strong as Froome that day. Therefore, he used that day to basically assure his podium place. Which is understandable. Furthermore, there are still three of four opportunities for Aru to put time into Froome, perhaps on days when he is feeling better. After all, Froome is known to go worse in the last week. And the tactic usually ends up with someone going solo, rather than three vs one - at that point Aru could have put 10 seconds into Froome, but the gap to Quintana and co would have been perhaps 30 or 40 seconds less. Astana made a judgement call - the seconds to the other contenders were worth more than any potential gap on Froome.
 
Apr 15, 2016
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Why isn't Uran going for the win at this time . he's well within striking distance . I'm not saying he has a good chance of winning but this opportunity may never present itself again however slight a chance he may have .

also you first argued they wouldn't put much time if any on Froome if they sat back let him him tire himself out and then attack together and now you're arguing they'd possible lose 30/40 seconds to Q and Martin on the flats if they did that ? you're not making any sense by arguing opposing ends of the argument

it's a losers mentality and idiotic if Astana was worried about Q/Martin instead of possibly putting time into Froome and enough of this crap about Froome being stronger than Aru since i'll repeat again (until it sinks in) it wasn't Aru against a fresh Froome , it was a Froome who's worked much harder against a fresher Aru-Birdsong-Uran working together
 
Re:

Mozart92 said:
Aru showed good recovery during the third week in the past years, on the other hand, Froome always ended a bit short, living on the time he gained during the first two weeks. This time he has a very small advantage though, could he crack on the Izoard?
You mean like in Morzine-Avoriaz stage in last year's Tour :p
 
Jun 14, 2017
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Re: Re:

Blanco said:
Mozart92 said:
Aru showed good recovery during the third week in the past years, on the other hand, Froome always ended a bit short, living on the time he gained during the first two weeks. This time he has a very small advantage though, could he crack on the Izoard?
You mean like in Morzine-Avoriaz stage in last year's Tour :p
More like '13, '14 and '15 Giro and '15 Vuelta. And in last years tour he was 3rd in the uphill time trial beating both Porte and Bardet in stage 18, before he completely collapsed in the last mountain stage
 
Re:

red zone said:
Why isn't Uran going for the win at this time . he's well within striking distance . I'm not saying he has a good chance of winning but this opportunity may never present itself again however slight a chance he may have .
Uran isn't going for the win because he'd rather play safe and get a podium than risk and win. This is more of a morale GT after a couple of dodgy years than an out and out goal, especially considering his ever improving standing in one day classics.

also you first argued they wouldn't put much time if any on Froome if they sat back let him him tire himself out and then attack together and now you're arguing they'd possible lose 30/40 seconds to Q and Martin on the flats if they did that ? you're not making any sense by arguing opposing ends of the argument
Yes, and I don't see why it is contradictory. If Froome is forced to work alone, then I doubt he will go full pace or as fast as they actually did in chasing Bardet and putting time into those behind. Therefore, the gap to the group behind will come down. When Aru and/or Fugslang would have attacked, it would probably have to be with around 5-8km to go for it to make sense. Any more than that and Froome easily follows, and less and there is a minimal gap. Therefore, the gap to Froome (if it had worked) would not have been big and and the gap behind would have been smaller than what it was at the finish. And then there's the Bardet problem, which affects both Astana and Froome, although the former more as Froome could afford to give Bardet some breathing space and still retain his position. Although, I do not think that Astana were too worried about that

it's a losers mentality and idiotic if Astana was worried about Q/Martin instead of possibly putting time into Froome and enough of this crap about Froome being stronger than Aru since i'll repeat again (until it sinks in) it wasn't Aru against a fresh Froome , it was a Froome who's worked much harder against a fresher Aru-Birdsong-Uran working together
And I'll repeat it until it sinks in as well. The likelihood that Aru and Fugslang ended up in the same attack that dropped Froome is very low. Usually in classics when teams do use the 1-2 counterpunch, it is a solo rider that escapes, not both members of the same team. What would they have had to do, a simultaneous attack? If Fugslang had attacked in order to tire out Froome then he would have been let go, after all he was already over a minute and a half down on GC. You can force a rider to work all you want but a simultaneous team attack is extremely rare in cycling; when was the last time it happened? They could have tried it but it's possible/likely that Froome would have just taken their wheel, especially as both Fugslang and Aru are not the most explosive on flat roads (although Fuglsang did win the sprint in the Dauphine).

Astana made a decision that the risk of not working with Froome so that they can get time on him was too high, because of the threat from behind and the possibility of it not working. They decided that there will be other times in this Tour when Froome will be isolated and in a vulnareble place, and at that point they will not be worried about putting time into those behind because they are far ahead of them already. Seeing how Martin was going, that may not have been a bad idea. We will see as the Tour goes on if the 20 potential seconds will have been crucial. Beacsue the race for Aru too is a morale-booster, not only one he is trying to win. After last year's calamity he needs a podium here, and I think that was the main goal coming into the Tour. Now the yellow jersey is a very real goal, he will try more to win that rather than just cement his podium place. The road to Paris is long.
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
red zone said:
Why isn't Uran going for the win at this time . he's well within striking distance . I'm not saying he has a good chance of winning but this opportunity may never present itself again however slight a chance he may have .
Uran isn't going for the win because he'd rather play safe and get a podium than risk and win. This is more of a morale GT after a couple of dodgy years than an out and out goal, especially considering his ever improving standing in one day classics.

also you first argued they wouldn't put much time if any on Froome if they sat back let him him tire himself out and then attack together and now you're arguing they'd possible lose 30/40 seconds to Q and Martin on the flats if they did that ? you're not making any sense by arguing opposing ends of the argument
Yes, and I don't see why it is contradictory. If Froome is forced to work alone, then I doubt he will go full pace or as fast as they actually did in chasing Bardet and putting time into those behind. Therefore, the gap to the group behind will come down. When Aru and/or Fugslang would have attacked, it would probably have to be with around 5-8km to go for it to make sense. Any more than that and Froome easily follows, and less and there is a minimal gap. Therefore, the gap to Froome (if it had worked) would not have been big and and the gap behind would have been smaller than what it was at the finish. And then there's the Bardet problem, which affects both Astana and Froome, although the former more as Froome could afford to give Bardet some breathing space and still retain his position. Although, I do not think that Astana were too worried about that

it's a losers mentality and idiotic if Astana was worried about Q/Martin instead of possibly putting time into Froome and enough of this crap about Froome being stronger than Aru since i'll repeat again (until it sinks in) it wasn't Aru against a fresh Froome , it was a Froome who's worked much harder against a fresher Aru-Birdsong-Uran working together
And I'll repeat it until it sinks in as well. The likelihood that Aru and Fugslang ended up in the same attack that dropped Froome is very low. Usually in classics when teams do use the 1-2 counterpunch, it is a solo rider that escapes, not both members of the same team. What would they have had to do, a simultaneous attack? If Fugslang had attacked in order to tire out Froome then he would have been let go, after all he was already over a minute and a half down on GC. You can force a rider to work all you want but a simultaneous team attack is extremely rare in cycling; when was the last time it happened? They could have tried it but it's possible/likely that Froome would have just taken their wheel, especially as both Fugslang and Aru are not the most explosive on flat roads (although Fuglsang did win the sprint in the Dauphine).

Astana made a decision that the risk of not working with Froome so that they can get time on him was too high, because of the threat from behind and the possibility of it not working. They decided that there will be other times in this Tour when Froome will be isolated and in a vulnareble place, and at that point they will not be worried about putting time into those behind because they are far ahead of them already. Seeing how Martin was going, that may not have been a bad idea. We will see as the Tour goes on if the 20 potential seconds will have been crucial. Beacsue the race for Aru too is a morale-booster, not only one he is trying to win. After last year's calamity he needs a podium here, and I think that was the main goal coming into the Tour. Now the yellow jersey is a very real goal, he will try more to win that rather than just cement his podium place. The road to Paris is long.
Uran is going to win ;)
 
I really don't think there was any chance for Aru & Co. to drop Froome, even if they had left him do all the chasing.
A move that would have achieved nothing in the end, also considering the rest day on Mon and the two easy stages after it. Froome would have had plenty of time to recover. After all we are talking of 13km. A 15 mins effort. Froome would have definitely managed, if he had been forced to.

They obviously thought the only meaningful thing to do was putting as much time as possible on the chasers (Quintana, Martin) and losing nothing from Bardet, who is a strong podium contender.

The choice can be argued, in my opinion. But it can hardly be considered dumb or totally wrong. It definitely makes sense.
 
Re:

huge said:
I really don't think there was any chance for Aru & Co. to drop Froome, even if they had left him do all the chasing.
A move that would have achieved nothing in the end, also considering the rest day on Mon and the two easy stages after it. Froome would have had plenty of time to recover. After all we are talking of 13km. A 15 mins effort. Froome would have definitely managed, if he had been forced to.

They obviously thought the only meaningful thing to do was putting as much time as possible on the chasers (Quintana, Martin) and losing nothing from Bardet, who is a strong podium contender.

The choice can be argued, in my opinion. But it can hardly be considered dumb or totally wrong. It definitely makes sense.
Froome would probably have caught Bardet if made to chase by himself and I also doubt that Astana would then have been able to drop him. Most likely he wouldn't have picked up the 4 bonus seconds in that situation though. The main thing however is to gradually tire him out one stage at a time.
 
Jun 25, 2015
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He attacked a bit too early, but shows his true colour.
But Yellow jersey is taken !!! Grande Fabio!
 
Jun 25, 2015
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SafeBet said:
If only Fuglsang and Cataldo hadn't crashed.
Man, it's gonna be hard to defend the jersey with such a weak team.
He just have to look froome and bardet. As contador did at giro 2015. And hoping team sky will not unleash landa
 
Re:

SafeBet said:
If only Fuglsang and Cataldo hadn't crashed.
Man, it's gonna be hard to defend the jersey with such a weak team.
It looks though in the mountains, Lutsenko went down hard the other day and is probably still quite sore, Zeits was doing a ok job today, Valgren and Kozhatayev also looks fine.

For the flat parts you got Grivko and Gruzdev that are both disels. So not to worried there

It all depends if someone on the team can rise to the occasion, and i cant see anyone except Zeits and Lutsenko to to do that, hope im wrong.

Looking forward to tomrow
 

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