FIFA World Cup 2010

[theyoungest]

Ghana have 3 points in the bag.
It would make an interesting final day with 3 3 3 3

Why would it sadden you?

From the whole of Africa only 10 000 fans came to RSA. Considering one country england has 3 times that many fans in the country id say it shows that the people there care a lot less about this world cup then it is hyped up that they are.

I'm sure they'd all love to be there. If they had the money and the means.

 

[Moondance]

Ghana have 3 points in the bag.
It would make an interesting final day with 3 3 3 3

Why would it sadden you?

From the whole of Africa only 10 000 fans came to RSA. Considering one country england has 3 times that many fans in the country id say it shows that the people there care a lot less about this world cup then it is hyped up that they are.

Well, its irrelevant now. But with 3 points for everyone, I wouldn't have fancied Ghana's chances vs. Germany.

It would sadden me because I think everyone sees the enormous quality of African players, and would like to see the continent rewarded as a whole for their continuing contribution to football.

Also, with regards to your comment about the lack of other African fans..... How blind are you? Of course there aren't a lot of Ivorians, Ghanaians or Nigerians... The vast majority of the people there live in extreme poverty and don't have a hope to afford a trip to South Africa to see their national side, even though millions would love to. You only have to see the reaction Bafana Bafana get in South Africa to see how much the people of the continent love their football, and how much of a cultural importance it is for everyone there. Just because England (and other Western countries too) is full of rich and fat football 'fans' who boo the team the moment things look to go wrong doesn't mean the English love the game more.

 

[Galic Ho]

Wow, a match that doesn't put you to sleep within ten minutes. A bit unfortunate for Kewell, but the ref had no choice.

He had a choice, but like most FIFA officials he's a bought and paid for hack. F&%KING thunderc&%t! Kewell had no exaggerated movement towards the ball. He tried to chest it...duh, but it went too fast and hit his arm. Not his fault. It is a penalty, nothing more. Why? Did Vidic get a card against Germany? Did the Croatian back who punched the ball last WC against the Aussies? Yeah, what I though, one rule for one team, one for some others. Conspiracy...no solid proof, but the referees decisions speak for themselves. Either these tools are *** or are bought men. Favours for the FIFA officials...help out the teams we want when we can. Convenient that Australia's most troubling player on pitch was sent off. Good work FIFA. This piece of $h1t system needs to be reviewed...they need video referees. Consistency please or get abused by my country.

European boys club. Put the Africans through to promote the game in Africa for the African continents WC! What a joke. The Saffers cannot even fill the bloody stadiums. That's charitable equality for you. I hope the fans mess that Italian piece of sewer scum up. I can deal with Cahill's red card, but that one effectively screws Australia over. If the fans don't find him after the game someone will make sure that filth gets his comeuppance. They always get what's coming to them.

 

[sublimit]

Australia are rubbish, They make England look like Brazil circa 1982.

I've given up predicting the second round but i think the USA will come through from their group. They have a decent keeper and can score goals and are a fit athletic side. England are a shambles and cant be taken seriously at the moment until the manager sorts himself out.

 

[Moondance]

He had a choice, but like most FIFA officials he's a bought and paid for hack. F&%KING thunderc&%t! Kewell had no exaggerated movement towards the ball. He tried to chest it...duh, but it went too fast and hit his arm. Not his fault. It is a penalty, nothing more. Why? Did Vidic get a card against Germany? Did the Croatian back who punched the ball last WC against the Aussies? Yeah, what I though, one rule for one team, one for some others. Conspiracy...no solid proof, but the referees decisions speak for themselves. Either these tools are *** or are bought men. Favours for the FIFA officials...help out the teams we want when we can. Convenient that Australia's most troubling player on pitch was sent off. Good work FIFA. This piece of $h1t system needs to be reviewed...they need video referees. Consistency please or get abused by my country.

European boys club. Put the Africans through to promote the game in Africa for the African continents WC! What a joke. The Saffers cannot even fill the bloody stadiums. That's charitable equality for you. I hope the fans mess that Italian piece of sewer scum up. I can deal with Cahill's red card, but that one effectively screws Australia over. If the fans don't find him after the game someone will make sure that filth gets his comeuppance. They always get what's coming to them.

Kewell's hand was travelling up and was not down beside his body. The arm was in an 'un-natural position' and therefore is a clear handball.Vidic's handball did not deny a goal scoring opportunity. In such circumstances a yellow card can be given. If a handball denies a goal, then its automatic red, no questions asked. Its a shame all of Kewell's hard work ended after 20 minutes in ignominy, but that's all she wrote.

 

[The Hitch]

Well, its irrelevant now. But with 3 points for everyone, I wouldn't have fancied Ghana's chances vs. Germany.

It would sadden me because I think everyone sees the enormous quality of African players, and would like to see the continent rewarded as a whole for their continuing contribution to football.

Also, with regards to your comment about the lack of other African fans..... How blind are you? Of course there aren't a lot of Ivorians, Ghanaians or Nigerians... The vast majority of the people there live in extreme poverty and don't have a hope to afford a trip to South Africa to see their national side, even though millions would love to. You only have to see the reaction Bafana Bafana get in South Africa to see how much the people of the continent love their football, and how much of a cultural importance it is for everyone there. Just because England (and other Western countries too) is full of rich and fat football 'fans' who boo the team the moment things look to go wrong doesn't mean the English love the game more.

That was precisely my point. For all the hype that this world cup belongs to the people of Africa, the poverty is so extreme that they have other priorities. I don’t know what it is like in the Netherlands but here we have African footballers – Adebayor, Desalli (who are very rich) telling us that this world cup means everything to Africa (im sure they are sufficiently compensated for selling out with this drivel). The fact is this world cup really belongs to the rich European fans and the mega rich European players. The other day there were protests by Africans who had been conned by Fifa, who told them that they would get money in return for work. The spokesman for the protesters said the exact same thing “This world cup is not for the poor of South Africa it is only for the few in South Africa who are already rich.” 50% of South Africa lives beyond the poverty line and this is even worse in the rest of Africa.
Oh and btw Algeria, Cameroon, Ghana and especially Nigeria have rich inhabitants and middle classes as well. The populations of rich people in these countries are small but when you add them up from all of these countries you will get a significant population of people who can easily afford to go to the world cup. But the figure who went is, once again only 10 000.
My point is we are being told that this world cup means everything to Africa. But in reality, the world cup will mean something to the people of Africa when they stop having to worry about starvation, disease and genocide.

 

[Moondance]

That was precisely my point. For all the hype that this world cup belongs to the people of Africa, the poverty is so extreme that they have other priorities. I don’t know what it is like in the Netherlands but here we have African footballers – Adebayor, Desalli (who are very rich) telling us that this world cup means everything to Africa (im sure they are sufficiently compensated for selling out with this drivel). The fact is this world cup really belongs to the rich European fans and the mega rich European players. The other day there were protests by Africans who had been conned by Fifa, who told them that they would get money in return for work. The spokesman for the protesters said the exact same thing “This world cup is not for the poor of South Africa it is only for the few in South Africa who are already rich.” 50% of South Africa lives beyond the poverty line and this is even worse in the rest of Africa.
Oh and btw Algeria, Cameroon, Ghana and especially Nigeria have rich inhabitants and middle classes as well. The populations of rich people in these countries are small but when you add them up from all of these countries you will get a significant population of people who can easily afford to go to the world cup. But the figure who went is, once again only 10 000.
My point is we are being told that this world cup means everything to Africa. But in reality, the world cup will mean something to the people of Africa when they stop having to worry about starvation, disease and genocide.

Your points are obviously valid, and my position did nothing to diminish the points you made. If there are clear instances found where FIFA did not pay people for work, or else failed to live up to promises to invest some of their megabucks in South Africa I'd obviously complain long and loudly about that.

That doesn't diminish the passion everyone in Africa feels for football. I dont know how you're getting the action around the world cup, but our fantastic public broadcaster (who do the World Cup for dutch TV) is always bringing stories from people from people, in townships, in big cities, in rural areas, from immigrant communities even, about how much this tournament means to them. They hope it will bring jobs and development in the short and long run. Maybe they're all just towing the party line, or repeating what their politicians have fed them.... Who is to say?

 

[Galic Ho]

Kewell's hand was travelling up and was not down beside his body. The arm was in an 'un-natural position' and therefore is a clear handball.Vidic's handball did not deny a goal scoring opportunity. In such circumstances a yellow card can be given. If a handball denies a goal, then its automatic red, no questions asked. Its a shame all of Kewell's hard work ended after 20 minutes in ignominy, but that's all she wrote.

Correct. It is about intent. The ball was shot at a very fast velocity and his arm was not perpendicular. Look at his entire body movement. It looks like he was about to reposition his body. Kewell's shoulders move, just as one would when they go to chest. Look at his eyes...they're closed when it happens...he blinked. There was no intent. Benefit of the doubt...card, yellow and spot kick. Way too severe.

What I want is consistency across the board. Video referees too. The ref's have zero accountability and so too FIFA. As was mentioned this is very convenient for one team...Ghana, an African team. Is it a surprise that before this match that no African nation definitely looked like qualifying? Every time there is a controversial decision at the highest levels of football there is always a reasonable assumption that can be drawn that supports corruption and match fixing because of the nature of the decision and benefactors of said decision. Australia have seen it before...in cricket. It was rampant. Look at the last cricket WC...****stan were flogged and their coach ended up dead. Football looks no better.

Hopefully the Socceroos can hold on and Ghana mess it up.

Note: blocked out word is the country bordering India and Afghanistan. Cannot believe it is filtered out.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Points noted. You make a convincing argument. The booing and player performances need to be placed into perspective. England drew a game. They did not play badly, but they also didn't play superbly. England simply struggled like Spain did against Switzerland. In this context, if England had played as poorly as my countrymen did against Germany, I'd think booing their efforts would be valid (not that I did or would ever boo). Basically I think everyone should take a look at England. Yes they could have played better. Yes they were frustrated, but they didn't suck and they didn't lose. England fans once again, like many enthusiastic fans world wide do, expected more. This comes down to their attitudes. As I said, over inflated idea of self worth. Mistakes happen.

I think you have been watching different games to me. Spain where good apart from in the final third. Movement was good, they passed the ball well and if villa had been on a good day would have won the game. England did play badly end of story. The movement was no existent, other players have to give the man on the ball options, they teach you that in primary school. They ended up shooting from 40 yards out for crying out loud.

Spain created a lot of chances, England haven't created many chances in two games against weak sides. We are much more comparable with the French.

As for the booing I'm split on that, I agree with you that it only makes thing worse for the team but, as said by others, if you pay all that money to go and see your team play you have a right to boo. In fact there was a couple of pensioners on the news before the tournament who cashed in their life savings to go to south Africa - a life of toil for that crap - they can boo if they wish.

 

[Moondance]

Ghana have been close a few times now, but they really do need the second goal and the win. They'll be facing the full might of the German war machine in their last game, while Serbia will get their chance to try and crush the Aussies. They could very likely still finish 3rd if they don't win here.

 

[Galic Ho]

I think you have been watching different games to me. Spain where good apart from in the final third. Movement was good, they passed the ball well and if villa had been on a good day would have won the game. England did play badly end of story. The movement was no existent, other players have to give the man on the ball options, they teach you that in primary school. They ended up shooting from 40 yards out for crying out loud.

Spain created a lot of chances, England haven't created many chances in two games against weak sides. We are much more comparable with the French.

As for the booing I'm split on that, I agree with you that it only makes thing worse for the team but, as said by others, if you pay all that money to go and see your team play you have a right to boo. In fact there was a couple of pensioners on the news before the tournament who cashed in their life savings to go to south Africa - a life of toil for that crap - they can boo if they wish.

Agree with you. My words need more clarity. Spain struggled to score. They struggled to draw the Swiss off their line. They were rushed in the final 30 minutes.They're my backup team to cheer for. I wasn't happy they couldn't score. I haven't heard any stories in Australia about pensioners...poor people. That is their choice though. Nothing is guaranteed in sports...unless you can fix the result. I didn't think England set the world alight, but they were far from atrocious.

I'll also add more clarity to the booing. There are some times when it ok...like when people dope and win and act like they're all wonderful or cause multiple pile ups and walk away without a scratch. Seeing it is a cycling forum I thought I should add that perspective.

 

[Moondance]

Correct. It is about intent. The ball was shot at a very fast velocity and his arm was not perpendicular. Look at his entire body movement. It looks like he was about to reposition his body. Kewell's shoulders move, just as one would when they go to chest. Look at his eyes...they're closed when it happens...he blinked. There was no intent. Benefit of the doubt...card, yellow and spot kick. Way too severe.

What I want is consistency across the board. Video referees too. The ref's have zero accountability and so too FIFA. As was mentioned this is very convenient for one team...Ghana, an African team. Is it a surprise that before this match that no African nation definitely looked like qualifying? Every time there is a controversial decision at the highest levels of football there is always a reasonable assumption that can be drawn that supports corruption and match fixing because of the nature of the decision and benefactors of said decision. Australia have seen it before...in cricket. It was rampant. Look at the last cricket WC...****stan were flogged and their coach ended up dead. Football looks no better.

Hopefully the Socceroos can hold on and Ghana mess it up.

Note: blocked out word is the country bordering India and Afghanistan. Cannot believe it is filtered out.

Denial of a goal through use of the arm is always a red card, and a penalty, unless the circumstances are mitigating. "Intent" is not a qualification used to determine a handball. They are:
-Whether the arm in a "natural" or "unnatural" position. In Kewell's case it was unnatural. It was at a 75 deg. angle or so from his body at the time.
-Whether the arm was stationary at the time of touch or was "moving towards the ball". In Kewell's case it was, and replays clearly showed it.
-Third major criterion is whether or not there was sufficient reaction time for him to have moved his arm away. In Kewell's case the answer is irrelevant, because there was movement of the arm towards the ball, not away.

Because his handball denied a goal scoring opportunity it is a clearl red. No questions asked. No professional ref in the world will disagree.

 

[Moondance]

Sheesh... How many good chances do Australia need?

 

[The Hitch]

Your points are obviously valid, and my position did nothing to diminish the points you made. If there are clear instances found where FIFA did not pay people for work, or else failed to live up to promises to invest some of their megabucks in South Africa I'd obviously complain long and loudly about that.

That doesn't diminish the passion everyone in Africa feels for football. I dont know how you're getting the action around the world cup, but our fantastic public broadcaster (who do the World Cup for dutch TV) is always bringing stories from people from people, in townships, in big cities, in rural areas, from immigrant communities even, about how much this tournament means to them. They hope it will bring jobs and development in the short and long run. Maybe they're all just towing the party line, or repeating what their politicians have fed them.... Who is to say?

mmmm Television telling football mad europeans that people in the most dire situations "love the beautiful game". Never heard that before

Anyway. There was a similar debate about this from (the often but not always well informed) intelligence squared organization which specialises in debates.

Both your view that poor Africans love their football and my view that this is exagerated are represented.

So if you want to take a look at that
http://www.intelligencesquared.com/...eek_11_06_10_UPDATE6_11_2010&utm_medium=email

Ill leave it at that unless you have any further objections.

 

[Moondance]

mmmm Television telling football mad europeans that people in the most dire situations "love the beautiful game". Never heard that before

Anyway. There was a similar debate about this from (the often but not always well informed) intelligence squared organization which specialises in debates.

Both your view that poor Africans love their football and my view that this is exagerated are represented.

So if you want to take a look at that
http://www.intelligencesquared.com/...eek_11_06_10_UPDATE6_11_2010&utm_medium=email

Ill leave it at that unless you have any further objections.

Nope... Not television. The people themselves. You're almost as cynical as your namesake

 

[mr. tibbs]

I can't get over that save by Kingson in the 71st minute.

EDIT: Am streaming live on ESPN3. The announcers don't have a single positive thing to say about Ghana. It's kind of like watching the Armstrong coverage on Versus.

 

[ak-zaaf]

holland!!!!!!

 

[ak-zaaf]

o hja, come on Ghana!

 

[Galic Ho]

Denial of a goal through use of the arm is always a red card, and a penalty, unless the circumstances are mitigating. "Intent" is not a qualification used to determine a handball. They are:
-Whether the arm in a "natural" or "unnatural" position. In Kewell's case it was unnatural. It was at a 75 deg. angle or so from his body at the time.
-Whether the arm was stationary at the time of touch or was "moving towards the ball". In Kewell's case it was, and replays clearly showed it.
-Third major criterion is whether or not there was sufficient reaction time for him to have moved his arm away. In Kewell's case the answer is irrelevant, because there was movement of the arm towards the ball, not away.

Because his handball denied a goal scoring opportunity it is a clearl red. No questions asked. No professional ref in the world will disagree.

All opinion. I disagree with it. Sheesh, dude, they obviously don't cover mathematics in law. The angle and movement speed of his arm did not deem it unnatural. Look at the whole movement of his body and his face. He thinks he's going to be hit, moves his chest, closes his eyes and his arm was moving slightly, but not aggressively. To be unnatural would require sight on the ball. Replay shows the ref over reacted. Seriously, if the opposition belt it at you and you happen to be in the road, how long do you have to react? Not much time, maybe a few tenths of a second. Add it all together it wasn't unnatural. The word unnatural indicates intent. It wasn't. It happened so fast one cannot say it was unnatural. The angle was not 75 degrees. It was closer to his body than further away. Lastly, he was moving before the ball was kicked, not after. Too hard to quantify as unnatural. Benefit of the doubt. I'll leave it at that. It's done...nothing will change that.

You'd be surprised at what offficials around the world will allow at times. They are far from steady, strong and consistent.

Back to the gameplay. Germany will rip Ghana apart. Lots of yellows. This will come back to bite them.

 

[Moondance]

holland!!!!!!

You're a bit late

 

[Moondance]

All opinion. I disagree with it. Sheesh, dude, they obviously don't cover mathematics in law. The angle and movement speed of his arm did not deem it unnatural. Look at the whole movement of his body and his face. He thinks he's going to be hit, moves his chest, closes his eyes and his arm was moving slightly, but not aggressively. To be unnatural would require sight on the ball. Replay shows the ref over reacted. Seriously, if the opposition belt it at you and you happen to be in the road, how long do you have to react? Not much time, maybe a few tenths of a second. Add it all together it wasn't unnatural. The word unnatural indicates intent. It wasn't. It happened so fast one cannot say it was unnatural. The angle was not 75 degrees. It was closer to his body than further away. Lastly, he was moving before the ball was kicked, not after. Too hard to quantify as unnatural. Benefit of the doubt. I'll leave it at that. It's done...nothing will change that.

You'd be surprised at what offficials around the world will allow at times. They are far from steady, strong and consistent.

Back to the gameplay. Germany will rip Ghana apart. Lots of yellows. This will come back to bite them.

The position of the arm was unnatural. The rules of the game state that a "natural" position for the arm is down, parralel to the body. I hate to break it to you but by the rules of the game Kewell was in error. It's not opinion. In a goal line situation there is no leeway afforded, and rightfully so.

 

[ak-zaaf]

You're a bit late

Hey, I got 2 t-shirts out of a worlc cup quiz at my bar, I'm not late for nything Just felt this thread needed another 'Holland!@'

 

[The Hitch]

Nope... Not television. The people themselves. You're almost as cynical as your namesake

Permit me to rephrase.

Television building up an event they are presenting to the viewer by showing people who are excited and benefiting from this event and not showing people who arent excited and are losing out from this event. Never heard that one before

 

[Moondance]

Permit me to rephrase.

Television building up an event they are presenting to the viewer by showing people who are excited and benefiting from this event and not showing people who arent excited and are losing out from this event. Never heard that one before

Dutch TV has shown plenty of people who aren't satisfied with the state RSA is in... They're just not dissatisfied with the WC coming to South Africa.

 

[Moondance]

Great job by Australia to salvage a point, they probably deserved (and should've) to win based on their 2nd half performance, where they were the better team. Ghana show themselves to be incapable of scoring unless they have a penalty kick to do it.

Now they need a result against Germany, and Serbia to fail versus Australia to go through. Disappointing for them, really.