Floyd says...you've got to legalise doping

[NashbarShorts]

Wiggins is the ultimate p*ssy. Says Floyd just should have admitted in '06 'cause he'd be back riding the ProTour and making big money if he had.

Yeah, 'cause that worked out so well for others such as Sinkewitz, Manzano, Jaksche, etc.

Wiggins should just call himself out for what he is: a p*ssy who hasn't spit in the soup, and as such is still welcome at the party to gorge on his fat salary. Wuss.

 

[Ferminal]

What a tool, the only reason you could give for legalising doping is to "level the playing field" (which clearly isn't level in cycling). Floyd of course has some first hand experience in this. Does nothing about super-responders though. The biggest thing you could do to level the playing field right now is to send all those dickheads at the UCI packing.

Of course, he might not be far from the mark, where the biopassport is effectively legalising but monitoring doping.

 

[Granville57]

It's easy to paint Floyd as crazy, but I think much of his behavior has to do with the fact that he has seen the deep, dark under belly of all of this, much of which most of us will never see, or even know.

His perspective is one that is truly hard to imagine. I've always felt that Tyler Hamilton went through much of the same. It's everyday reality for them but they realize that no one else can see it like that. It goes beyond being good or bad to simply being just what it is. It's hard to fully judge without knowing the depths of that reality.

I hope Tyler comes clean, and I hope that Floyd will find collaborators that he can sit down with in a rational discussion. Be it Tyler or any other ex-teammate, I would love to see more than just one person in the room talk about this stuff. I think that would go a long way to clearing some of the haze.

Boooohooooh! I almost feel like shedding a tear for the guy.

Rational??? What part of todays interview can be classified as rational??? You can't honestly believe that any sane person would sit down with Floyd for a "rational" discussion apart from his shrink?

The only haze that needs to be cleared is that deep fog around Floyd's brain which started to develop shortly after July 2006 and today has reached ZERO visibility.

I usually don't respond to idiotic responses, but since we're in full-on-crazy mode today, why not?
You've brilliantly misquoted me in the attempt of a misdirect. I never referred to the CN article as rational. That's why I was suggesting another discussion. See how that works?

I also don't happen to believe that Floyd is always captured that well in print. His quirkiness often doesn't come through accurately. After watching one of latest videos I come away with two thoughts:
1. He actually seems OK, with his sense of humor fully intact.
2. Maybe, just maybe, he's only F-ing with all of us on this one!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCzQ0e38I8&feature=autoplay&list=ULc_n90UOs6ms&index=24&playnext=3
Always entertaining and a helluva lot more interesting than StrongArm any day of the week.

Keep your jet, Lance. Floyd has his corgi and the ability to laugh.

 

[131313]

IMO, EPO is a recovery agent, same with insulin, blood doping.

Some of these doping practices are actually improving the riders health and make stage races safer.

I think that is the consensus with the DSs.

The average DS has what is probably the equivalent of a 10th grade education, and their motivation is winning, not the rider's health. The "doctors" claiming that this stuff is safe are lying for profit. Sometimes it really does pay to follow the money.

I realize you just like to troll for a reaction, but you'll have to do a little better; you've fallen completely off of the logic bus.

The fact is, no one has any idea of what the long-term implications are for the drug regimens used for riders of the '90's through today. We probably won't know for another 10-20 years. I will say that anyone who claims there will be no consequences is either a liar or an idiot. No one knows. Good luck to those willing to be human guinea pigs.

 

[131313]

well said.

these comments are floyd's biggest misstep since last spring. i think what floyd really wants by "legalization" is for people to not be so shocked or to feel such personal betrayal when they find out an athlete like himself has been using PEDs. what he'd really like to see is more tolerance in response to dopers although i don't think he knows how to say it.

We can all read different things into his response, but the truth is that sometimes I think even he has a tough time trying to figure out what he's trying to articulate.

Personally, I think his comments are born from frustration, and are meant to imply that he thinks it's impossible to put the genie back in the bottle with regards to cycling and doping. As I said before, I understand his sense of helplessness.

From a practical standpoint he just doesn't see a way for the system to get fixed. Given doping in cycling since his own bust, and since the time he came clean, I understand his perspective. As I said earlier, I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

The thing is that when you look at it - the underlying premise - that the testers will always be several steps behind the dopers - is true.

His idea is not a new one and other people have suggested it before.

I don't think he structured his argument very well, but I think that journalists know Landis is not the most articulate of people and exploit it. Benson went fishing for headlines and got them. Tabloid journalism from Benson and pretty scummy.

 

[joe_papp]

Back to Floyd and Why for a second

Although I don't necessarily believe that the argument he's put forth is an appropriate one to use, have any of you stopped to consider that FLandis may just be giving a big ****-off to everyone who's involved in what he might see as a public (Anti)Doping circus? And that he's just stirring the pot to provide some enjoyment while he sits back and watches the reaction? The guys is definitely not crazy (though I think he showed bad judgment again in using the word "insane" as a way to describe his state after trying to think his way through the future, even though it's obvious - or should be - what he meant and that "insane" was part of his colloquial delivery)...but he is a loose cannon and very unpredictable. Just saying...

 

[180mmCrank]

I think it's safe to say good judgement has not been one of Floyd's strong suits of late. I would just put this down to one more example of the same. I suspect he has some genuine concerns about his future and is not happy that he has become an object of ridicule by many.

I personally feel really sad for the guy. I think in there some where is a good guy trying to get out. But it pretty difficult to see that right now. He just comes across as at best random and at worst a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

In terms of giving up the fight against doping ... IMHO that would be a mistake. Just because it's hard doesn't mean you don't keep trying. There will always be folk that cheat but I genuinely believe the tide is turning in terms of it's acceptance as the norm. There is more and more evidence that the sport doesnt want to operate in this way. It wants to be clean. I don't think was true even 3 or 4 years ago.

Time will tell

 

[la.margna]

Floyd just tells what he thinks and does not speak politically correct to the press, it's that easy.

While he is right, that testers are not even remotely close, it is obviously ridicolous and a no go for any sporting governing body to legalise it and to even think one second about it. But it gives a sad insight to the real problems of cycling and other sports.

It's Floyd's right to have this thoughts, others might have, but cannot talk about it. If one reads through the article, it is not fair by journalists to take out the "legalise" quote for the headline.

And if anybody doubts that the new Floyd tells the truth and what he thinks without any spin doctor or lawyer in the back, then the Wiggins chicken statement should finally remove the slightest doubt. Yes, Floyd! You are so right. In contrast to many cycling pussies you finally told us the sad truth and lost a lot. Much more respectable than Wiggo chicken. Floyd is a man, a real man who finally after a long time turned around to the good and honest path. He did what many of our ego's will never allow, publicly ruin your image and credibility, publicly confess that you did wrong, but now you're turning around. Once again, respect Floyd.

 

[sartain]

What happened to Floyd ?
Unbelievable. He should think about it and himself during a long vacation. He needs a break.

What do the Floydlovers think about that now ?


"You got to go about it another way and you've got to legalise doping. They [the testers] are so far behind in the testing organisations that there's no way to change it now. Just accept that it's here, that it's not going away and that it's just going to get more complicated and the fact that it's not that complicated yet compared to what it will be. Ten years from now it's going to be four times as hard as it now to test for things."

Landis expressed a pessimistic view of efforts to clean up the sport, saying, "They're not even remotely close to catching anybody; it's just a joke. You can use as much EPO as you want and unless you're an idiot you're not going to get caught.

"Just start over and let it be. I'm convinced now that there's no stopping it and you've got to stop ruining lives over it. The bad guys will always have guns and the bad guys will always use drugs and that will force the good guys to do the same.

"Since you can't stop it you have to deal with it in rational kind of way. You can't stop it and you cant fix it. Monitor it and make sure people don't hurt themselves, but you have to accept it."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/floyd-landis-calls-for-legalised-doping

Frankly, I think he is being very pragmatic about it all given where he has been . . . one doesn't need to stand in a steaming pile of s**t up to their mouth to know that it stinks; just standing ankle deep should really be more than enough to capture the floral aroma of fraud.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

"They're not even remotely close to catching anybody]

Floyd just tells what he thinks and does not speak politically correct to the press, it's that easy.

While he is right, that testers are not even remotely close, it is obviously ridicolous and a no go for any sporting governing body to legalise it and to even think one second about it. But it gives a sad insight to the real problems of cycling and other sports.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Put all that together and you get that Floyd is right because the alternative is insanity.

 

[yourwelcome]

Maybe he's relatively sane, and he just felt like making a calculatedly outrageous statement to underline how compromised he feels the current system is, and provoke the people in charge of the status quo.

I'm sure he knows full well that doping in cycling is not about to be legalised.

 

[dbrower]

At this point, I think he's just messing with people because he doesn't have a personal stake anymore. Talking to a CN guy he knows was going to butcher what he said to troll people (especially those here!) would probably strike him as pretty funny.

-dB

 

[D-Queued]

At this point, I think he's just messing with people because he doesn't have a personal stake anymore. Talking to a CN guy he knows was going to butcher what he said to troll people (especially those here!) would probably strike him as pretty funny.

-dB

I'm happy to bury the hatchet, but this is my first post on this thread - so you bit first.

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

At this point, I think he's just messing with people because he doesn't have a personal stake anymore. Talking to a CN guy he knows was going to butcher what he said to troll people (especially those here!) would probably strike him as pretty funny.

-dB

I would have thought that you would be too busy setting up the Armstrong edition of "Trust But Never Verify" to bother with us troll people.

I don't see what the problem is with FLandis' statements. Starting with the premises that doping is already rampant, testing is horribly ineffective, and the situation will get much worse in the future because of the sophisticated methods of doping that are on the horizon then the urge to acknowledge the reality and in some fashion live with the situation can be seen as a practical solution.

The main problem is that cycling is a sponsorship based sport and few companies will want to give money to a "top fuel" racing series. Cycling already has sponsorship issues. Riis had a heck of a time finding sponsorship for the arguably best team in the world. The sport would not be able to survive at its current money level with legalized doping.

 

[dbrower]

I would have thought that you would be too busy setting up the Armstrong edition of "Trust But Never Verify" to bother with us troll people.

Then you didn't read very carefully -- there was never a word pro or con about Armstrong at TBV, because I very explicitly did not want to touch that third-rail and get branded a Lance apologist or hater. It was fun enough receiving complaints about Landis.

I amamused by the people who used to throw rocks at Landis who now are happy he is saying what they want to hear. I suspect what is being said now is closer to the truth, but I'd like more traceable documentation, myself, to close the loop on those insist nothing is yet proven.


[And I still don't understand how the LNDD testing of the Landis samples showed exogenous testosterone. The results seem inconsistent with what would have been occasions to re-infuse 'tainted' blood, which is the theory most people take as what happened. However, I do not have access to his coded training/doping diaries (in the hands of the Feds, I presume) to correlate the tested B samples to when blood was extracted and then re-infused. Working those details out isn't high on anyone's list of concerns, but it remains a puzzle to me.]

If I were the sort of person who'd be a "hater", I'd hate Landis for doping, hate him for lying, hate him for covering up, covering for Lance, hate Lance for everything and anything, hate the UCI, hate WADA, hate the IOC, and the sport itself for being the sort of thing that responds so well to doping. But I like riding too much to get bitter about any of it personally. The whole thing seems like a game to me until real people get really hurt. Consider Carla Swart, clobbered by an ever-present hazard in a moment of lapsed attention. It makes the calculations or risk and reward seem more cold-blooded to me.

I am inclined to agree with the observation that monitored doping would still leave room for cheating. A counter to that is that it would remove most of the "super-responder" effects, and lead to a less skwewed playing field. I don't know that I accept that either, without study.

I also agree the taint of doping isn't sponsor friendly. That is built into the cost-structure of why riders mostly get paid nothing, and there is no stability.

I think the reliance on sponsorship is a structural flaw with pro cycling that may be insoluble given the need to run on public roads with no charged admission. The natural result is hypocrisy, corruption, and economic weakness, and I don't know how that gets constructively chang

-dB

 

[rhubroma]

Just been looking at the threads all day - mental day on here!!!
Wiggins, I knew he was gone up Lance's a** since 09, but even I didn't think he was that bad. Kimmage must be spitting blood after seeing it.
As for Floyd's comments today. Clearly he is saying in a perfect world it would be clean, but the point he is making, and is something Dr has alluded to, is that the battle is being lost for various reasons, none more so than the governing body being complicit. And when you see Don Catlin et al being involved like that, then yes, I absolutely do see what he is saying. He is just being realistic, and when you see someone like Wiggins saying that today, you think the sport is absolutely f***ed.

Indeed it's about staring reality in the face, with no illusions or wishful thinking, and saying what simply demands to be said.

Like the so called "war on drugs." What has that achieved? Not only nothing, but there are more quantities of drugs coming into the States and Europe today to feed a drug crazed society than 30 years ago when the so called war began; while the suppliers (all from organized crime groups) make gargantuan profits. Profits which are them used to buy more drugs and arms, the former to profit further in a never ending cycle of supply and demand, while the latter is used to repress all opposition against the criminals who litterally hold court in many places in Mexico, Central and South America. So it is, for example (just to cite a particularly heinous case), the US consumer who supplies the funds for the drug gangs to purchase their arms, which are then used to eliminate any legal stand against themselves and thereby hold the Mexican State in complete submission to their tyrannous rule over society. This, as with Floyd's point, makes a strong case for indictment against keeping drugs in the hands of such gangs and, consequently, for their complete legalization.

Floyd recognizes that this is a losing battle. He is merely being honest.

 

[Benotti69]

i hear what Floyd is saying...but you gotta fight against the doping, the corruption, the lies the cheats otherwise we all might as well go home and await a dictatorship and total loss of personal freedoms in society.

Things are bad in cycling now but imagine if they opened the flood gates how bad it would get. they cant cope (due the uci's corruptness and complicity) now, what happens when it is legalised, sprinters hearts bursting as they go for the line, guys doing a Tom Simpson on an Alpe....

the riders would become guinea pigs for others to make money, no better than race horses. it is not far from that now but to give into doping would kill a hell of a lot riders.

Nah, sorry Floyd got to fight the good fight. Better to die on one's feet than live on ones knees etc....

 

[pistolero]

Legalise doping??not a bad idea,but there must be a limit,if you cross the line,you're out.by the way.the most remarcable victory in tour the france since claudio chiapucci in sestriere was,with or without testosterone,floyd landis in touissuire 2006,respect!!

 

[hektoren]

Floyd recognizes that this is a losing battle. He is merely being honest.

No, he's just disillusioned and overly simplistic, possibly stressed out and/or drunk. There are other ways of organizing society than "the american way". There are no quick-fixes, no simple solutions. The 5 second sound-bite may be in sync with the attention-span of large segments of society, just look at the success of "the-right-to-bear arms"-mantra one would think was the lost part of the eleven commandments, but sometimes five seconds just ain't enough, as my wife likes to point out.
Giving up on the fight against PEDs means you've lost. I believe there're enough couch-potatoes around. With PEDs as an integral part there'd be no point in letting your kids take up sport. Brilliant.
How's this for an alternative soundbite: Winners never quit, quitters never win.

 

[brianf7]

Maybe we get the drug companys to sponsor teams and free drugs for everyone.

Floyd has some silly ideas and some good ones this is not one of them.

 

[Kerbdog]

Just read the Floyd legalising sin article. Im flabbergasted & just feel sorry that he has come to thinking that way. Really Floyd really??? Never ever ever ever ever should that attitude be allowed to take root.
The example that would set would just make me numb. Its a conscious decision between right & wrong, and what Floyd said is just wrong.
The human cost of embracing something like that.................

 

[python]

moot point - doping is ALREADY legalized, yes as we speak. im serious.

there are dozens and dozens of substances that are ok 'if you take this much' but not 'that much'.

and 'this much' keeps moving around making some substances legal some years and illegal other years. caffeine is but one simple example...there are many others.

the very fact that the authorities are confused (though they'll never admit it) says it's really irrelevant where the line is drawn or how you term the phenomena - 'controlled doping'/legalized doping' whatever...it's here to stay and the 'this-much-but-not-that-much' will always randomly move or beter said in sync with the societal fashions, whims and ethical currents.

same old. but some may feel good deluding themselves...again and again.

 

[hektoren]

moot point - doping is ALREADY legalized, yes as we speak. im serious.

there are dozens and dozens of substances that are ok 'if you take this much' but not 'that much'.

and 'this much' keeps moving around making some substances legal some years and illegal other years. caffeine is but one simple example...there are many others.

the very fact that the authorities are confused (though they'll never admit it) says it's really irrelevant where the line is drawn or how you term the phenomena - 'controlled doping'/legalized doping' whatever...it's here to stay and the 'this-much-but-not-that-much' will always randomly move or beter said in sync with the societal fashions, whims and ethical currents.

same old. but some may feel good deluding themselves...again and again.

Kind of strange that you're that confused. Performance enhancing drugs isn't allowed. Period. The amounts allowed will vary over time, as will our medical knowledge. Limits are determined by consensus, not by dictate. But to state that this moves in a random fashion, following whims, is nonsensical.
Some medicines double as therapeutic and/or performance enhancing, usually at varying levels. Determining the exact level where therapeutic use ends and performance enhancement begins is difficult because of the amount of variables involved, but one tends to err on the side of caution. But, you need a diagnosis and a TUE to use most of these substances. One example is Salbutamol, once totally disallowed at any concentration, now allowed if at normal therapeutic concentrations, because there's new evidence to the fact that using salbutamol at these concentrations has no performance enhancing effect.
These processes are evolutionary, and will get better over time. Have faith.

 

[L'arriviste]

Monitor it and make sure people don't hurt themselves...

... Add to that the can of worms of who enforces any tolerence to doping - Doctors would be going aginst their own ethical guidelines...

This is where I can't agree with Floyd, more or less for the reason the Doc gives here.

I simply do not believe that, by doing the sort of stuff one finds on the Manzano laundry list throughout a career lasting say 10 years, people are not hurting themselves.

The 90s doping generation is not yet old enough to show us the long-term effects of heavy use/abuse, in the same way that we have yet to see the full impact of Ecstasy on a generation of kids who were dropping it every weekend for years at raves. And when our 90s guinea pigs have attained a certain age and - one would hope - level of wisdom, they're likely to keep silent about it anyway.

We have, however, seen plenty of this: