Floyd to be charged with fraud

[thehog]

The enormous man crush you have for Landis is clearly clouding your judgement on the guy. Your Floyd coloured spectacles seem to present you with a cross betweek Sherlock Holmes and Steve McQueen.
I just see someone whos ability to put themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time is uncanny.

Secondly, how do you know Landis has nothing to hide?

Hi andy1234 thanks for the post! It's great reading your input! It's both fascinating as its thought provoking. Keep up the good work.

 

[andy1234]

Hi andy1234 thanks for the post! It's great reading your input! It's both fascinating as its thought provoking. Keep up the good work.

No problem! Good to see you so chipper!
I thoroughly enjoy your work too!

PS sorry to bring your high level insight down to such a base level!

 

[aphronesis]

The Google law degree went to his head.

FLandis would do best to not plead guilty immediately. He should start the discovery process, arguing that the main funders of the FFF were not deceived because they were already involved in the Armstrong fraud and evidence gathered by the feds will prove this. Use the case, or at least the initial phase, as a way to dig for information.

And to yours as well apparently.

 

[MarkvW]

You appear disappointed? Like you want Floyd to have nothing. To not have the right to fair and equal representation......

Sorry to muddy the script in your head... maybe you could leave the forum again like last time? and pretend Floyd still lives in a car wash and is a dirty liar.

Life was better when we things were separated into 7-time Tour champion & a disgraced former Tour de France winner....

If Floyd is indicted, it won't be about Lance. It will be all about poor (self-admitted) lying Floyd.

 

[Digger]

If Floyd is indicted, it won't be about Lance. It will be all about poor (self-admitted) lying Floyd.

What would Floyd have to do for you to forgive him for the lie that you keep pointing out as your source of disdain for him? Just for a minute give him the benefit of the doubt and pretend you believe that he didn't knowingly take testosterone during the tour. Calling him a liar is fine but at some point is there any redemption possible or is he past some threshold in your head?

 

[Digger]

And to yours as well apparently.

Ok let's resolve this.

Would all of the real lawyers on here please identify yourselves please?

 

[Digger]

No problem! Good to see you so chipper!
I thoroughly enjoy your work too!

PS sorry to bring your high level insight down to such a base level!

It's really nice to see that we've all finally put aside our differences here and are acknowledging each others strong points.

 

[thehog]

If Floyd is indicted, it won't be about Lance. It will be all about poor (self-admitted) lying Floyd.

I thought we established Floyd's not poor? I guess it depends your definiation of poor. Maybe if he's indicted the court will debate this point first? If established that's he is indeed poor then he will be treated differently by the court. Then they will decide whether he has lied at any point in his life and define the proceedings by it. Once we know he is a sack of *** everyone will feel better about themselves.

Sadly it's all about Lance as its about Floyd. I assume Floyd will be given the opportunity during the proceedings to explain how the FFF was set up and who was involved. Or because Floyd is poor he might not be allowed to?

Your prejudice is concerning. Not so much on Floyd but the judgements you make on society. I suggest some reading on basic goodness as a start.

 

[MarkvW]

I thought we established Floyd's not poor? I guess it depends your definiation of poor. Maybe if he's indicted the court will debate this point first? If established that's he is indeed poor then he will be treated differently by the court. Then they will decide whether he has lied at any point in his life and define the proceedings by it. Once we know he is a sack of *** everyone will feel better about themselves.

Sadly it's all about Lance as its about Floyd. I assume Floyd will be given the opportunity during the proceedings to explain how the FFF was set up and who was involved. Or because Floyd is poor he might not be allowed to?

Your prejudice is concerning. Not so much on Floyd but the judgements you make on society. I suggest some reading on basic goodness as a start.

Floyd's not going to trial, Hog. You can dress it up however you want, and criticize me personally, but if the feds charge him (a big if) he's not going to trial.

 

[andy1234]

It's really nice to see that we've all finally put aside our differences here and are acknowledging each others strong points.

Yes, It's a beautiful moment.
I feel closer to Floyd, and have seen the error of my ways.

I look forward to the Hog and Landis upcoming nuptials.

 

[thehog]

Floyd's not going to trial, Hog. You can dress it up however you want, and criticize me personally, but if the feds charge him (a big if) he's not going to trial.

You can criticize and judge Floyd all you like but it won't change that this is only your opinion - not fact. I do worry that's it's more wishing thinking on your behalf than reality. But we shall see.

However I do agree with you dispite your obvious prejudice towards Floyd. It would be unwise for the Government to take this to trial. It would be embarrassing on a number of levels. I also worry about Livestrong and if it could handle the fallout from this.

Floyd had already proven that he's not afraid of speaking out and telling the truth no matter how uncomfortable it is for some.

None the less this could be the catharsis some of us need? Perhaps you yourself might learn something about you and the anger you hold?

 

[MarkvW]

What would Floyd have to do for you to forgive him for the lie that you keep pointing out as your source of disdain for him? Just for a minute give him the benefit of the doubt and pretend you believe that he didn't knowingly take testosterone during the tour. Calling him a liar is fine but at some point is there any redemption possible or is he past some threshold in your head?

I'll give Floyd the benefit of the doubt about the testosterone when I meet Tyler's Twin.

Redemption involves acknowledging your guilt and accepting responsibility. I'm totally for it. If he's charged, I think Floyd is going to plead guilty and accept responsibility for the Fraud Fairness Fund. I definitely support that.

On the other hand, I want to see Floyd held criminally accountable for his actions. I don't care if he's found guilty or not guilty. I want him held accountable for cheating his fans. I happen to think he'll plead if he is charged. He could go to trial, but that would mean him standing up in front of a jury and saying "I didn't cheat anybody." I don't think he'll do that, because I think Floyd is sick and tired of all the lying.

 

[Digger]

I'll give Floyd the benefit of the doubt about the testosterone when I meet Tyler's Twin.

Redemption involves acknowledging your guilt and accepting responsibility. I'm totally for it. If he's charged, I think Floyd is going to plead guilty and accept responsibility for the Fraud Fairness Fund. I definitely support that.

On the other hand, I want to see Floyd held criminally accountable for his actions. I don't care if he's found guilty or not guilty. I want him held accountable for cheating his fans. I happen to think he'll plead if he is charged. He could go to trial, but that would mean him standing up in front of a jury and saying "I didn't cheat anybody." I don't think he'll do that, because I think Floyd is sick and tired of all the lying.

Ok that's what I was wondering. Weather you feel that the two and a half year suspension and the hundred thousand dollar fine he paid were enough punishment or if he should be punished more for lying.

Along those lines, have you forgiven Armstrong for all the lies or would you like to apply the same standard to him?

 

[aphronesis]

Ok that's what I was wondering. Weather you feel that the two and a half year suspension and the hundred thousand dollar fine he paid were enough punishment or if he should be punished more for lying.

Along those lines, have you forgiven Armstrong for all the lies or would you like to apply the same standard to him?

This thread is not about Armstrong Dig. It can be about the vapidity of an American public, the charade of the UCI, the meanderings of the FBI, the prophet in the wilderness, and any number of other things, but it is not about Armstrong.

When charges are pressed, and, decades later, when some texts and emails are released linking Sand Dog Fab to movers behind this latest development, you can make it about little Gunderson. Otherwise, please refrain.

 

[KingsMountain]

Ok that's what I was wondering. Weather you feel that the two and a half year suspension and the hundred thousand dollar fine he paid were enough punishment or if he should be punished more for lying.

Along those lines, have you forgiven Armstrong for all the lies or would you like to apply the same standard to him?

Just a side point, but I don't believe that Floyd ever paid the $100,000, despite a thread at DPF which had that title. The arrangement reached with the USADA was the Floyd could race immediately, and he was to pay the fine over an unspecified time period.

It is my opinion that Floyd's filing asking that the $100K fine be set aside demonstrated very clearly that the CAS arbitration scheme is fraught with the possibility of bias (the "impartial" arbiter in one case can be appointed by one of the sides in a different case, and vice versa), and the USADA did not want to expose that weakness in the system.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Ok let's resolve this.

Would all of the real lawyers on here please identify yourselves please?

Hey coach March Madness is over, and now you have more time to spend on the cycling forums.

 

[Digger]

Hey coach March Madness is over, and now you have more time to spend on the cycling forums.

Yea unlike some

 

[MarkvW]

Ok that's what I was wondering. Weather you feel that the two and a half year suspension and the hundred thousand dollar fine he paid were enough punishment or if he should be punished more for lying.

Along those lines, have you forgiven Armstrong for all the lies or would you like to apply the same standard to him?

Probation, restitution, and a small fine would suit me for Floyd. Floyd's fully paid for his doping. Now's the time to pay for cheating his fans.

Funny you bring Lance up. Floyd is another one of the lying Posties who covered for Lance all those years, allowing him to beat the rap. (I'm just pulling your chain ).

Lance beat the rap. That's no reason Floyd should, though. I would have liked to have seen Armstrong exposed and convicted in a criminal trial.

 

[MarkvW]

Just a side point, but I don't believe that Floyd ever paid the $100,000, despite a thread at DPF which had that title. The arrangement reached with the USADA was the Floyd could race immediately, and he was to pay the fine over an unspecified time period.

It is my opinion that Floyd's filing asking that the $100K fine be set aside demonstrated very clearly that the CAS arbitration scheme is fraught with the possibility of bias (the "impartial" arbiter in one case can be appointed by one of the sides in a different case, and vice versa), and the USADA did not want to expose that weakness in the system.

IIRC Floyd got sanctioned for making the other side produce their experts, making them wait around, and then not using them. That's part of the judgment, as I recall.

 

[Polish]

The interesting thing about this, if FLandis can get a thorough defense, is that he has maintained that he did not use testosterone and proving that he did would be done in a venue competely different than the kangaroo courts that make up the anti-doping process. He can use the sloppiness of the lab as an excuse for why he fought so hard by saying he fought it because he was not guilty of the specific doping offense he was charged with.

Floyd still denies using testosterone doesn't he? I beleive him. Sure he admitted using other drugs, with Lance and stuff - but he still denies the testosterone right?

The FFF Fraud is based on the use of testosterone while at Phonak. And the Feds will first have to prove that. Prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I do not think the evidence will hold up. I think Floyd should call on Lance to testify for the defense. First, show how the French Lab has performed in the past yikes. Call Lemond too. Greg had issues with the French testing also. Floyd could also use Lance as a character witness. Deny ever seeing Floyd using testosterone in 2006.

On the other hand, Floyd could admit to using the testosterone in 2006 TdF. Admit he was lying. Establish his fraud. Then go after the Champions Club guys - "Hey, you guys should have known I was doping". And in that way knock his fraud case down.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Probation, restitution, and a small fine would suit me for Floyd. Floyd's fully paid for his doping. Now's the time to pay for cheating his fans.

Funny you bring Lance up. Floyd is another one of the lying Posties who covered for Lance all those years, allowing him to beat the rap. (I'm just pulling your chain ).

Lance beat the rap. That's no reason Floyd should, though. I would have liked to have seen Armstrong exposed and convicted in a criminal trial.

Trying to read the entire topic is about impossible but has anyone mentioned why would the Fed's be tracking down Whisky Tango when they could get TugBoat and the Mullet?

What would be the difference between FFF and the THFF?

 

[9000ft]

Wow, this is AWESOME!!! It'll never go as far as any of the LA threads but it should provide some good entertainment. Of course some posters can't help themselves and are making it an LA thread by default so who knows?

Good stuff.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Like Hog, I really don’t understand where the fraud is. Fraud is when you solicit money for a stated purpose, and then use it for something else. Like a pyramid scheme, where the money goes to pay off earlier investors, or into the pocket of the scammer running it. Or an advertiser who claims a product will do something that it won’t in fact do. Or, ahem, hypothetically, someone who asks money for a charity and uses the money for something else.

Floyd didn’t do this. He asked for money so that he could defend himself against doping charges, and he used the money for that purpose and that purpose alone. I don’t see whether he lied or not about doping is relevant. Most people who are charged with a crime and are guilty of it lie about that. Just as politicians routinely lie to people donating to their campaign about what they will do when elected. People who donate money to a legal defense fund or to a political campaign have a right to know that the money will be used for defense or campaigning. They don’t have a right to expect a certain outcome of the defense or campaign.

I mean, what was Floyd supposed to do? If he confessed to doping, he literally would have no case. There would be no court proceedings at all. He could only defend himself by maintaining his innocence. Obviously, maintaining innocence does not mean one is innocent. It simply means someone has decided to fight the charges. Period. End of story. When Floyd told everyone he didn’t dope, he was saying the only thing he possibly could say if he wanted to exercise his legal right to defend himself. Anyone who read anything more into it than that is ignorant of not just human nature, but of the way the law works.

“WE” don’t know this to be 100% fact. Or do “WE”?
That might be part of what the fed’s are investigating.

 

[Polish]

“WE” don’t know this to be 100% fact. Or do “WE”?
That might be part of what the fed’s are investigating.

Glenn_, I think you hit the nail on the head.

It would not suprise me if Floyd did not do a great job of record keeping. But he has to account for all those donations and how the money was spent. Receipts etc coming and going. Major tax implications.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I would add that he obviously enjoys the discovery & research element. I think he'd want to go to trial and have his day in court. I'm sure he'd handle himself well under pressure. His reasoning for the initial lying would be to establish the pattern of doping at USPS and subsequent pressures applied from former team mates & mangers to keep zip.

If Armstrong is behind any of this it just seems plain madness on his behalf. For Floyd to defend himself would be to prove the Armstrong doping. All that information is sitting in case files and could be accessed. That's why I think this is Nov's backdoor and not an Armstrong pressured investigation.

You keep bringing this up.