Four-year Ferrari investigation handed over to CONI

[nuvolablu]

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=151

 

[Red Rick]

omg.

this is the post of the year.

seriously.

what world do you live in?

i am literally dying laughing.

thank you, la flo.

OMG




SUCH enters





much lack of point

 

[thehog]

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=151

That's Ferrari at his best! Are we sure he doesn't post in the Clinic?

DI LUCA - who is he? Oh... the cyclist who resulted positive for Cera in the Giro of 2009, who in exchange for a much shorter disqualification blurted out some important revelations, "defined the system", spoke of St. Moritz and Mt. Teide, where Ferrari performed "prohibited practices such as blood transfusions". He knows everything, Di Luca; a shame that I neither ever met the guy, nor was he ever present in my training camps, nor, to my knowledge, had he ever been those same locations.
Di Luca, the guy who, once his reduced penalty was over, went into schools to teach on doping in sports, swearing that he did do wrong and never to do it again, only to be positive yet again for EPO, during last year's Giro.
Mr. Danilo Di Luca, I'm afraid you'll probably have to deal with other problems, to be added to the many already accumulated in your "reckless life".

SCARPONI: "But you're convinced that I could have won the Giro, or not?"
FERRARI: maybe "if you had a bag you would have!" A joke about his past involvement in Operacion Puerto, nothing more than that. Doping after all has always been a "topic of discussion" in the world (not only in cycling): at dining tables, in the athlete's rooms, in bar chats, without any of this having any serious meaning.
"I did it the first day": for the investigators that means a bag of blood; more likely it is something else, given the context.

VISCONTI - I am not even going to comment on the splutters published by La Gazzetta: surely blood doping and albumin were never the subject of our conversations.

KREUZIGER - Roman, if you have yet to figured it all out, your problems with the Biological Passport are simply the price to pay for having worked with me in 2007, and for later declaring that "Ferrari had prescribed me only training programs", which is the absolute truth.
At this point, just tell it all, the Truth: how in 2010 you were privately confronted about two phone calls with myself, in which you asked about, and then declined, the possibility to resume our cooperation.
WHO did confront you about those calls, HOW could he be aware of them? Maybe it was a sport technician, a former coach of Di Luca, co-worker, friend and even neighbor (!!!) to one of the Finanzieri at the orders of PM Roberti, while leading the investigation of Padova?

TASCHLER - are we really sure it was EPO? Maybe, just maybe, it could have been vitamin B12: Dobetin vials, 2000 u..., smaller than 5000u, to do half: 1000u. Just maybe.
The transcripts are dated September 2010, yet the mentioned race event (IBU Cup) is about 4 months later (late January 2011)...

SCHWAZER'S MOTHER - "I'm worried about Alex". As I have described in the past, Mrs. Marie Luise contacted me several times on the phone, worried about the serious psychological distress Alex was going through at the time, exacerbated by further family problems. A sleazy example of "journalistic abuse" (which alone is worth a lawsuit) is the following assertion by the author: "With this message she suggests to know about the association with Ferrari: for doping".

PAOLO SLONGO - he would have, according to the investigators, "frequent contact with Ferrari": yes, of course, every morning, in front of the buffet breakfast at the hotel Parador del Teide, with the topic: "is it better to have eggs with bacon or muesli with yogurt?"...

MENTIONED ATHLETES - many of them, I simply do not know them: Marco Marcato, Dimitri Kozontchuk, Ivan Rovny, Egor Silin...

PHOTOS OF MONTECATINI - we are all waiting so anxiously for them...

 

[roundabout]

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=151

I know that he has his fans, but the guy is either that vain, or genuinely thinks he is untouchable.

 

[webbie146]

My main issue with someone like DiLuca is that it is hard to believe that he ever rode clean so we have no idea what his actual talent level is. To me DiLuca represets the ultimate hardcore doper who was not just physically reliant on dope but also pyschologically reliant on it as well. The very idea of even riding clean probably gave DiLuca the worst case of the shakes ever. Of course he thinks 90% dopes because he simply cannot imagine any other way as it is the only way he has ever known.

He came through the Italian amateur scene in the mid 90s and if anyone wanted to know what that was like, just read some of the stuff Matt DiCanio has written about it. Remember them sweeping several U-23 World Championships back then. I would say the Italian amateur scene in the 90s was even more doped up than the Eastern Bloc scene of the 70/80s.

He might have revealed the truth on what he knew but I would never put much faith in any of his opinions.

He was on his own using some epo without any doc assisting him, wouldn't call that a hardcore doper.

Besides I can just see with my own eyes how everything is still going the same way as 10 years ago, to many examples to name.

And also why would u ride clean when your a pro cyclist? What good does it do? Are there any advantages I don't know of? There are 80 different variations of epo and a lot of them are undetected. The blood-pasport is flawed. Why not dope? It's not like killing someone. Like Lance said it just like pumping up your tires.

 

[pmcg76]

He was on his own using some epo without any doc assisting him, wouldn't call that a hardcore doper.

Besides I can just see with my own eyes how everything is still going the same way as 10 years ago, to many examples to name.

And also why would u ride clean when your a pro cyclist? What good does it do? Are there any advantages I don't know of? There are 80 different variations of epo and a lot of them are undetected. The blood-pasport is flawed. Why not dope? It's not like killing someone. Like Lance said it just like pumping up your tires.

Well if anything doping on your own is the ultimate sign of a hardcore doping.

 

[webbie146]

Well if anything doping on your own is the ultimate sign of a hardcore doping.

It's not. It's the ultimate sign of a limited amount of funds. Can't afford to let a doc set up the program so you go ahead and create your own little program.

Hey guy! Top 3 of this year's Vuelta was Berto - Fwoomey - Piti
Kreuziger was 5th at the TDF last year

Ow damn your right! Kreuziger was 5th haha my memory fails me sometimes

About Froome being second yea I know, dunno why I left him out. I just don't like him I quess

 

[the sceptic]

That's Ferrari at his best! Are we sure he doesn't post in the Clinic?

I wish he did! Ferrari is amazing.

KREUZIGER - Roman, if you have yet to figured it all out, your problems with the Biological Passport are simply the price to pay for having worked with me in 2007, and for later declaring that "Ferrari had prescribed me only training programs", which is the absolute truth.

Poor Roman. If he had gotten Ferraris deluxe 100% bio passport proof package he wouldn't be in this mess right now.

 

[Netserk]

2007 rode for Disco, Bruyneel DS, Bruyneel send everyone of importance to Ferrari. I can look up the lawyer thing for you if you want tomorrow. It's been posted here on this forum before.

Read 75-86

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Leipheimer,+Levi,+Affidavit.pdf

Ofc it's extremely likely he is lying (about that as well), but it's better than nothing.

 

[webbie146]

I wish he did! Ferrari is amazing.




Poor Roman. If he had gotten Ferraris deluxe 100% bio passport proof package he wouldn't be in this mess right now.

Explains his blood values in 2012, no Ferrari anymore

"PHOTOS OF MONTECATINI - we are all waiting so anxiously for them..."

I'm starting to believe Ferrari on this one, maybe there really aren't any pics.

Read 75-86

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Leipheimer,+Levi,+Affidavit.pdf

Ofc it's extremely likely he is lying (about that as well), but it's better than nothing.

Thanks! Pretty interesting. Pepe Marti did the transfusion but I highly doubt he made the whole program for Leipheimer/Contador without at least consulting Ferrari regularly. Ferrari stopped doing the injections/transfusions himself. There was also no reason for Bruyneel to stop working with Ferrari, he always delivered him the goods.

USPS/Lance worked with Pepe Marti too in 2004/2005 but he was more of a supplier of the products, with Ferrari laying out the plan (when to administers and such)

 

[roundabout]

With Schwazer angling for a deal with the police, spending time with a lawyer would be more advisable.

But I guess the big troll just couldn't help himself.

 

[Big Doopie]

if small names like that take dope u can bet the big names do too.

if you think about it, not sure that actually follows logically. again an amateur might be able to dope to become a no name pro. it all depends on where they start out and their response to dope if they do it. otherwise you are basically saying the hierarchy does not change if they are all doped or all not doped. that is a proven falsehood however.

Nothing suspicious about Dan martin has come out so far, but the same can be said about a rider like Marco Marcato before being one of the cyclist named today.

well, not really. the teams do in fact have reputations.

The whole top 3 of this year's Vuelta is dodgy when it comes to being clean

true.

(to say the least although I don't care I'm a big fan of Contador/Valverde/Purito)

and therein lies the problem, frankly. if you like those riders no matter what, maybe you don't actually want to admit that a clean rider is being robbed by those serial dopers.

The winner of the Giro this year goes hiding somewhere in Columbia for 2 months before he starts a GT. Not very encouraging either. Kreuziger third last year in the tdf now busted.

Agreed.

100%.

However, the GT podiums I am talking about specifically are Pinot and Peraud and Martin's 7th place. Even 7th in a GT clean from mid-1990s on was basically impossible. LBL was only won by caught dopers.

so what has changed?

or do you really think pinot, peraud and martin are suddenly now doping exactly at a point when it seems to be harder to do and more and more laws are in place? and more and more are getting caught? and at a time when more and more serial dopers seem to need to resort to really risky endeavors with a known, convicted doping doc?

what is more logical?

But your statement about clean riders podium GT's, well that's just not gonna happen imo. To podium you need to be on the juice.

so pinot and peraud are on a full ferrari type program according to you?

 

[pmcg76]

It's not. It's the ultimate sign of a limited amount of funds. Can't afford to let a doc set up the program so you go ahead and create your own little program.



Ow damn your right! Kreuziger was 5th haha my memory fails me sometimes

About Froome being second yea I know, dunno why I left him out. I just don't like him I quess

Well if you think DiLuca wouldn't have 50/100k lying around to pay for a program, then there is not much point in even continuing this debate.

When Levi/Landis were doping themselves in France, do you think they were short of cash?

 

[Big Doopie]

My main issue with someone like DiLuca is that it is hard to believe that he ever rode clean so we have no idea what his actual talent level is. To me DiLuca represets the ultimate hardcore doper who was not just physically reliant on dope but also pyschologically reliant on it as well. The very idea of even riding clean probably gave DiLuca the worst case of the shakes ever. Of course he thinks 90% dopes because he simply cannot imagine any other way as it is the only way he has ever known.

bingo.

same goes for armstrong, scarponi, contador, valverde, etc...

armstrong literally could not believe lemond could do what he did clean because armstrong could not do those things clean.

chiappucci's recent comments about dropping a clean lemond while he was on epo shows you how completely persuaded serial dopers are in their self-delusion.

 

[Big Doopie]

also to deduce only that because more are being caught they are therefore all doing it is again false logic.

if you really think about it.

 

[webbie146]

if you think about it, not sure that actually follows logically. again an amateur might be able to dope to become a no name pro. it all depends on where they start out and their response to dope if they do it. otherwise you are basically saying the hierarchy does not change if they are all doped or all not doped. that is a proven falsehood however.

True everyone responds differently. Most of the listed names where small guys though and only could afford the minimum program. I would not expect them to fly.

well, not really. the teams do in fact have reputations.

I was talking about individuals, not teams.

true.



and therein lies the problem, frankly. if you like those riders no matter what, maybe you don't actually want to admit that a clean rider is being robbed by those serial dopers.


Morally taking doping is not something that bothers me. I'm just bad that way I quess

Agreed.

100%.

However, the GT podiums are I talking about specifically are Pinot and Peraud and Martin's 7th place. Even 7th in a GT clean from mid-1990s on was basically impossible. LBL was only won by caught dopers.

so what has changed?

or do you really think pinot, peraud and martin are suddenly now doping exactly at a point when it seems to be harder to do and more and more laws are in place? and more and more are getting caught? and at a time when more and more serial dopers seem to need to resort to really risky endeavors with a known, convicted doping doc?

what is more logical?



so pinot and peraud are on a full ferrari type program according to you?

Did Pinot and Peraud look you into your eyes and say they don't dope? You talk about more and more people getting caught, but I don't see that either. Big busts are done by police work, not doping tests.

Do you really think that Pinot and Peraud beat Valverde a known bagger by being on bread and water?

Let's agree to disagree, we differ in opinions that's okay.

(bolded my responses, gotta go didn't have time to separate your quotes

 

[Benotti69]

My main issue with someone like DiLuca is that it is hard to believe that he ever rode clean so we have no idea what his actual talent level is. To me DiLuca represets the ultimate hardcore doper who was not just physically reliant on dope but also pyschologically reliant on it as well. The very idea of even riding clean probably gave DiLuca the worst case of the shakes ever. Of course he thinks 90% dopes because he simply cannot imagine any other way as it is the only way he has ever known.

He came through the Italian amateur scene in the mid 90s and if anyone wanted to know what that was like, just read some of the stuff Matt DiCanio has written about it. Remember them sweeping several U-23 World Championships back then. I would say the Italian amateur scene in the 90s was even more doped up than the Eastern Bloc scene of the 70/80s.

He might have revealed the truth on what he knew but I would never put much faith in any of his opinions.

I used to live near Di Luca. He rode with a lot of guys. But there were days i would see him on his own putting in the effort, training.

Di Luca knows the story about the sport, especially in Italy. The fish rots from the head.

The idea that doping is a minority is so laughable. We see that 99% of Russians doped for the Olympics, but the moral westerners don't?

How do people swallow such stuff? I can see it, Yates, De Jongh, Julich telling guys, dont dope it aint worth it? Hahahaha. All the Garmin boys loaded from wins on USPS telling the new generation, dont do it not worth it!!!

Get a grip. Piti riding better than before he was suspended. Contador too. Even Millar had some great results in TTs when he was supposed to be clean.

Police are catching the dopers and yet posters think this is a minority. WOW!

 

[lllludo]

What Rojas published today: I exchanged several mail with Stefano Ferrari on my workouts. Everything else is unsubstantiated rumors
None of this has to do with my team. I hope that we see not unfairly affected by this fallacy

Aah, the classic "yes, I saw him but just for training not for doping".

Rojas is an idiot. If he wanted Ferrari's training advice he could just have posted a note on http://www.53x12.com. It's risk free

 

[Benotti69]

Did Pinot and Peraud look you into your eyes and say they don't dope? You talk about more and more people getting caught, but I don't see that either. Big busts are done by police work, not doping tests.

Do you really think that Pinot and Peraud beat Valverde a known bagger by being on bread and water?

Let's agree to disagree, we differ in opinions that's okay.

(bolded my responses, gotta go didn't have time to separate your quotes

The French dont dope! Ask Anquetil, Hinault, Virenque, Fignon and then consider Bassons this year said nothing has changed.

 

[sniper]

I used to live near Di Luca. He rode with a lot of guys. But there were days i would see him on his own putting in the effort, training.

Di Luca knows the story about the sport, especially in Italy. The fish rots from the head.

The idea that doping is a minority is so laughable. We see that 99% of Russians doped for the Olympics, but the moral westerners don't?

How do people swallow such stuff? I can see it, Yates, De Jongh, Julich telling guys, dont dope it aint worth it? Hahahaha. All the Garmin boys loaded from wins on USPS telling the new generation, dont do it not worth it!!!

Get a grip. Piti riding better than before he was suspended. Contador too. Even Millar had some great results in TTs when he was supposed to be clean.

Police are catching the dopers and yet posters think this is a minority. WOW!

this indeed.
#letsnotkidourselves

 

[sniper]

Rojas is an idiot. If he wanted Ferrari's training advice he could just have posted a note on http://www.53x12.com. It's risk free

indeed.
if he didnt dope he still deserves a ban for stupidity.

 

[Hugh Januss]

you gotta love how a police investigation that reports that the suspected serial dopers are truly serial dopers has actually been deemed evidence that all those not mentioned in the report are serial dopers

it's truly fantastic!

What I see is a police investigation which reports that some of the suspected serial dopers, who are competitive with but not in a dominating way all of the other suspected serial dopers,are truly serial dopers is in fact evidence that they are still all at it and the "new clean era" is just so much PR BS. I am not saying that everyone dopes the same amount or with all the same drugs or doctors or that 100% of the peloton is doping (more likely DiLuca has it right, who would know better), but I can not take your leap of faith that these guys who are involved in this investigation are the worst and only dopers in the peloton. Doesn't Martin have an uncle who was a pretty successful pro cyclist and who apparently would know his way around all of the proper methods of "preparation". Oh yeah but you know that he is clean because he said so (and you didn't even have Liggett's vantage point of "looking him in the eyes") oh and he never tested positive. If the UCI didn't have all of you guys around to swallow the line that they are catching all the bad apples I bet there would be very few new positive tests. Maybe this is why they dumped on Astana in the past couple months, because they knew this investigation was about to go public and they needed a handy scape goat to skewer. So I guess we owe you the gullible ones a big thank you for helping insure that at least some go positive, thanks dude.

 

[thehog]

I wish he did! Ferrari is amazing.




Poor Roman. If he had gotten Ferraris deluxe 100% bio passport proof package he wouldn't be in this mess right now.

Well Ferrari does raise an interesting point. He appears to be suggesting the UCI are "hand selecting" people they want to take down on the bio rather than it been done on blood values alone.

Michele could take down the UCI in a day with the knowledge he has.

 

[rhubroma]

Well Ferrari does raise an interesting point. He appears to be suggesting the UCI are "hand selecting" people they want to take down on the bio rather than it been done on blood values alone.

Michele could take down the UCI in a day with the knowledge he has.

This is the mother of all corruptions. The same governing body has every vested interest to control, with all the economic insentives this presupposes, who is doped and who isn't.

For this they let LA get away with it for as long as they independently were able. Given that the investigation is "Italian," little will change.

 

[ray j willings]

This is the mother of all corruptions. The same governing body has every vested interest to control, with all the economic insentives this presupposes, who is doped and who isn't.

For this they let LA get away with it for as long as they independently were able. Given that the investigation is "Italian," little will change.

Not Just LA but nearly all of the peloton. KER - CHING